A Christian Can Be A Christian Or A Liberal, But Not Both

TownHall.com ^ | Oct. 25, 2004 | Doug Giles

[Zack Nguyen]

Christ would simply give back "to Ceasar what is Ceasar's" and not get caught up in the discord surrounding the election of a man.

Christ is King already, so he wouldn't need to work in an election.

I think Christ does care who is elected in this country. The Scriptures are pretty clear that a country's ruler is very, very important. I do believe that W. is the man for this country. If he loses I will be heartbroken, but the sun will rise the next day. God is always in control.

[snarkpup]

I enjoyed the clarity of your response. You mentioned "Tao"......are you a CS Lewis fan?

I'm a Lao Tzu fan.

[jan in Colorado]

First, I want to say that I have been greatly encouraged by reading all the comments on this topic. This has been a subject that has been very heavy on my heart for several months. I wanted to post a vanity about this, but being new to FR, I was afraid to do so. When I saw the title of this article posted I truly believed it was an answer to my prayer.

I am concerned about the apathy and laziness of many "Christians" today. I am ashamed to admit that I was one of those before September 11th. That event changed how I will look at everything for the rest of my life. I believe it was a wake up call, especially to Christians. We have allowed the vocal minority to dictate the morality, or should I say the lack of, for far too long.

I have been trying to encourage others to get informed about the issues regarding this election. I have been shocked at the reaction I have received. Many tell me that God is in control so it doesn't matter what they do. I have been further discouraged when I see Kerry bumper stickers on vehicles in the parking lot at my church. So, I have an atheist boss who is voting for Bush (small business owner) and yet fellow brothers and sisters in Christ who are voting for Kerry. I have been struggling with how to deal with this. It doesn't make sense to me.

I will stand by what I said in post #10, I don't believe you can vote for the present Democratic platform, and be a Christian. My definition of a Christian is a follower of Christ. As such, Christ becomes Lord of your life and decisions that you make should be determined by what His Will is (Matthew 7:21).

Many have responded on this thread that we are all sinners (true) and we are saved by Faith. I believe that is an oversimplification of the Scriptures. We can never just use one verse and apply it across the board. We need to take all the Scriptures together to understand how to live as a Christian. For every Scripture you can find that says you're saved by Faith, you can find one that says your faith is shown by your works. Here's an example in the Book of James:

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.
v.19 You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.
v. 24 You see that a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone.
v.26 For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

I also know that no amount of "works" will save us, it is the blood of Jesus that saves us. But, that doesn't give us a license, as Christians, to just do whatever we want.
Now, I am no Bible scholar and I don't claim to have all the answers. I study the Bible with an open mind and I am constantly praying that God will help me to understand what He is saying to me in His Word. As I studied I had to acknowledge that what I was taught as a child was not correct and I realized I had to search and study for myself. It was more important for me to learn the truth than to hold on to "false" teachings. It's hard to admit when we are wrong and to turn our back on tradition, but truth is truth.

That's how I look at the Democratic party. Just because someone has been one their whole life doesn't mean they shouldn't check out WHAT the Dems. actually believe and stand for. So,if someone claims to be a Christian, then I think they have to consider God's teaching when deciding who to vote for. I have NEVER said in my posting that it means you have to vote Republican (although that IS my choice), I've just stated that I think you HAVE to reject the Democratic platform/candidate whatever you want to call it if you want to be consistent with what Jesus would do.

I'm sorry if I rambled on for too long. I am so thankful to have FR to vent. I have felt for some time that I am the only one that thinks this way. Although I'm sure there are many here who don't agree with me, I feel pretty certain that at least most of you understand where I'm coming from. I welcome comments both agreeing and disagreeing with me.

[Rightly Biased]

Way to go Jan!!!

I ask every church member in my church who they are voting for and if they say skerry they get a full explanation of why they are wrong. God can not honor us if we do not honor Him. He has so Blessed the U.S. and we need to honor Him in return buy voting and voting our Morals.

Rush has said many times if people voted the way they live we would never have a liberal president.

God is in control but He lets us make choices and laziness or being lackadaisical is a choice as well. Choices God Will not honor.

If your church members have any questions about who to vote for tell them to read Ecclesiastes 10:2 Solomon was quite wise on the subject of which side to be on.

RB<><

[jan in Colorado]

RB, Thanks for the encouraging words. It helps to know I'm not the only one that feels this way.

It's funny, I'm listening to Glenn Beck right now and he's talking about Democrats who, because of FDR, they were Dems then and they will stay Dems (Zel Miller) even though they have no idea what the party stands for. (How is that possible)?

[Friend of thunder]

the question is...are you a democrat that is against killing babies and homosexuality

For the record, I am not a Democrat; I just do not accept the premise that all Democrats will go to Hell. And I do believe that if they (i.e. Democrats) are not – or as this post implies, cannot be – Christians, then they will go to Hell.

We are all sinners. I certainly am. I often say terrible thing to other drivers when I drive, and, at times, I – probably – drink too much, among (many) other things. But my accepting Christ as Lord and personal Savior makes me a Christian.

In your about page you said that you “hate democrats”. They are your neighbors; that is a sin – it made the top 2. If you have accepted Christ as Lord and personal Savior you are a Christian.

I hope I have not insulted you by using material from your about page (mine is still only under construction) If I have, I apologize, feel free to ask the moderator to remove this comment – I would have no objection, although I do not think it is abusive. My point is that we all fall short of what Christ would want of us. That does not mean He rejects us.

[Rightly Biased]

I think its education.Not that they are unschooled but ignorant of the DNC platform.
My Stepdads Mom is a democrat.
I ask her does she believe in a strong defense?
She says "YES!"
I ask here does she believe in Abortion?
She says "NO!"
I ask here does she believe in Homosexual Marriage?
She says "NO!"
I tell her your not a democrat but a conservative.
She says "No I am a democrat and I'll vote democrat cause I always have."

Don't make good sense does it?

[BriarBey]

If I have, I apologize, feel free to ask the moderator to remove this comment
****

I'm not that thin skinned!!! lol You can say whatever you want...doesn't move me in the least. As a matter of fact I have great fun on FR using strong language (such as hate) just to fire the more self-righteous up. Course if you investigated some of my previous posts you will find I can go either way...I can be a peace maker or I can give someone just what they want...the vain notion that they are superior and much better than I am because of what they DON'T do...lol. But insulted or offended? rofl....why would people with fake names, no faces and whatever opionion they want to manufacture for the moment insult or offend me. My life nor the sustaining of my life is not affected by words on a screen from people I don't know.

ps I still don't think you can support abortion and homosexuality and be so blind as to think you are a christian. It should make you want to puke.

[Sola Veritas]

"I feel pretty certain that at least most of you understand where I'm coming from. I welcome comments both agreeing and disagreeing with me."

I do know where you are coming from. I've been there and done that for many years. Welcome to the fight sister!

[jan in Colorado]

How can a person who has accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior, vote for a Democrat today? No matter how you look at it, it's wrong.

I don't see Jesus ever approving of baby killing.
You are either for Him or against Him. You can't have it both ways.

Just my opinion but I believe the Scriptures would back me up.

Just something to think about.

[Friend of thunder]

ps I still don't think you can support abortion and homosexuality and be so blind as to think you are a christian. It should make you want to puke.

I support neither. I don’t see how you can condemn all Democrats to eternal damnation irrespective of their relationship with Him. If you are not doing this, (condemning all democrats to eternal damnation, regardless of their relationship with Him) then we do not disagree.

I am glad you are “not that thin skinned” to be insulted by my quoting your about page. You may have noticed that there are people on this forum who are. I did call you a sinner some would take offence.

Perhaps I am not making myself clear, I am not defending the philosophical principles of the modern Democratic party. I am – as I have said before – respond to the premise that it is imposable to be a Democrat and a Christian.

Do you believe that it is imposable to be a Democrat and be Saved?

[jan in Colorado]

I agree with you. I just don't understand the stubbornness.

My grandfather was a die hard democrat until the day he
died. Big time union guy etc. But that Party doesn't exist anymore.

Maybe we should get all these FDR democrats to read Zel Miller's book "My Party No More"

I'm certain many of these senior citizens would not be supporting the Party that has been hijacked by the left-wing Hollywood elite and the likes of Micheal Moore if they really understood what they stood for.

The Mayor of Youngstown, New Jersey, a lifetime Democrat, was on Glenn Beck today. They were discussing this very issue. Glenn said he sounded like Zel Miller and I agree. He said he was a very popular mayor until he endorsed Bush for this election. He was furious with the direction that the Dem. party has gone. He was especially upset with how they have embraced Michael Moore. He reminded me of the actor Ron Silver. A lot of passion and conviction. It's refreshing to see that some of them are honest enough to admit that Bush has actually done something right.

[BriarBey]

I did call you a sinner
******
I am a sinner...saved by grace.


Do you believe that it is imposable to be a Democrat and be Saved?
****
Are they a Bush Democrat? Then they are ok, they're not supporting abortion or homos.

[Rightly Biased]

The mayor of Youngstown was on Rush Friday I heard him on Beck as well he's making the rounds.

We need to be careful and note that the artical states that can one be a liberal and a Christian not a "Democrat".Zell is a Democrat and a Christian. But Zell aint no liberal.

[jan in Colorado]

Yes, RB you are right. When I posted that statement I realized I didn't make myself clear. I meant If you vote for a Dem with their current positions, I question if you are a Christian. It ruffles feathers but I like doing that and I enjoy the debate.

A little off the subject but I just got home from a meeting at The Chamber of Commerce here in Longmont, Co. Pete Coors (running for Senate) spoke to a large group of business owners ( I was a guest).

I was probably the only openly partisan person there since I'm not a business owner.

Pete Coors speech sounded almost exactly like President Bush's speeches. I sat up front and nodded my head during the entire speech and when it was over two different newspapers interviewed me.

It was funny how none of the business owners wanted to say who they were voting for but when I was asked I gave several plugs for the President and the interviewer labeled me a "Security Mom" I asked her if there was any other kind.

So when I was done answering her questions she told me I should go around and give speeches. I thought that was funny since all my friends tell me the same thing.

Well, I just wanted to share that experience. It's exciting to go to the rallies for the President, but this was a smaller more personal meeting and it has me fired up even more than I already was..