Posted on 10/25/2004 3:39:15 PM PDT by Lindykim
QUICK LINKS: HOME | NEWS | OPINION | MEETUP | C-LOG | ISSUES townhall.com Printer-friendly version A Christian Can Be a Christian or a Liberal, But He Can't Be Both Doug Giles (back to web version) | Send October 23, 2004
Can a Christian be a liberal? Short answer: no. There is no way a Christian can buy into neo-liberal ideology and be faithful to the bigger-than-Dallas teachings of the scripture and expect to continue enjoying his hard-won religious liberties.
For the "Christian" to lean politically to the left means that he must blow off huge chunks of the Bible and replace the scripture with the make-believe notions of postmodernism's malleable "Christ." Only after torturing the scripture can the Christian then fit liberalism into his supposed relationship with God.
For the Christian who believes that unfeigned faith in Christ should correspond with Jesus' high view of scripture, it is… now… impossible to believe in God and be an adherent to postmodern liberalism. The twain no longer meet. Liberalism has been hijacked by bizarre special-interest thugs who spit on the Word of God and believe that the Bible has no place in public life, (except maybe in a museum where people can look at it from time to time).
The Christian who has a bent to the liberal left needs to understand something: while he is skipping around the maypole with his rose-colored glasses on, if it were up to the modern, secularized liberal establishment, he would be more restricted than Bill when Hillary's in town. Yes, if the Christophobic thugs had it their way, Christians would be relegated to a marginalized spiritual ghetto on the sidelines of life.
For the naïve Christian voter who thinks he can toss a ballot in the Nuevo liberal direction, please know that a vote toward the secular left could leave you bereft of sacred liberties. Thanks to the aggressive ludicrous liberal lug nuts' anti-Christian agenda, your vote for a liberal, Christian, is a vote for …
1. Christianity to be scrubbed from government and whatever turf the government owns. Thanks to the liberals, the Ten Commandments have about as much acceptance in our government and their properties as Rush Limbaugh would at Al Franken's family reunion. Yes, the Judeo-Christian principles that formed the rock-solid foundation of this great American Experiment are now aggressively fought against by the lascivious left.
If… if… the secularists continue to stay behind the wheel of this American bus, you can kiss all semblance of Christianity good-bye in this heretofore God-graced government. Saint, you might as well say farewell to our government's recognizing Christmas and adios to Good Friday if you're going to vote the liberal ticket. If the secularists have it their way, Easter will be behind your keister, and you can kiss the Cross good-night as an acceptable public symbol that represents your faith and our nation's recognition of Christ's atoning work.
2. Secularism to be continually mainlined into our public school system. Thanks to rabid vapid secularism, our public schools and universities would rather you be a Rocky Horror super freak than a Christian. If your beliefs run to the bizarre or the banal, or if you want to smoke the same philosophical crack that Caligula, Nero, Castro or Lenin freebased, they'll accommodate you.
Our schools are totally open to anyone and to anything, unless, of course, you're a Christian. And if that's the case, then you're likely to get more sympathy from a badger with minimal sleep than you will from liberal educators who are hard at work making your life hard. A vote for the secular left is a vote for Christianity to continue to be officially vilified on campus and Christians to be ostracized in campus life.
3. Public officials, employees and appointees to be pressured to hide their faith in the closet and suppress their public displays of belief in God lest they be grouped with Hitler, Osama, or Mussolini and then fired. Not only will the liberals aggressively work to prohibit the State from green lighting and recognizing Christianity as a legitimate and positive force in our land, they will also attempt to stifle Christians from influencing the path of government.
4. Public attacks on churches and Christians and attempts to restrict them in the private sector. Consider this, Christian pastor and Christian lay person looking to vote for the ludicrous left: the secular Mafioso's intent is to make your ministerial life difficult, your evangelistic work taxing and your voice minimized. And good luck, pastor and church committee, in trying to buy property and get zoning with the anti-Christian libs at the helm.
5. The continued media endorsement of the same putrid hedonistic stuff that sunk ancient Rome. Yes, with the liberals in place, expect more weird crap in movies and on television. Expect to see more paintings of Christian symbols/ saints smeared with elephant dung. Expect Christianity to be bashed and vilified and Christians made out to be buckled-shoed morons with three teeth and an IQ of 50. Expect the culture to coarsen. Expect your kids to continue to be exposed to things that only rock stars see backstage with groupies. A vote for a liberal is a vote to see Christians continue to receive special ridicule and be flogged more than a piñata during a Cinco de Mayo festival.
My ClashPoint is this: Modern liberalism tosses the scripture out on several different levels. How a true believer in the Christ defined by the scripture can buy into what Jesus, the prophets and apostles said and also what these secular thugs say is beyond me.
In addition to liberalism's obvious and odious pro-holocaust-like abortion stance, its anti-biblical view of marriage, its scripture-slamming aggressive secularism, and its feckless view of our nation's defense, liberalism completely clashes with the Christian worldview. Secular liberalism's aggressive desire to eradicate Christians' rights should cause Christians to be concerned.
The Democratic Party's liberalism has degenerated over the last 40-50 years in regard to its view of Christianity and Christian rights. This party, which formerly embraced and protected our nation's great Christian heritage and teachings, no longer does so.
Thus, today the Christian is between a rock and a hard place: he can either be a Christian or a liberal, but he cannot be both.
Doug Giles' provocative weekly one-hour radio program, 'The Clash', has re-launched with several new features. Go to clashradio.com and hit 'listen live.' ©2004 2004 Doug Giles Contact Doug Giles | Read Giles's biography townhall.com QUICK LINKS: HOME | NEWS | OPINION | MEETUP | C-LOG | ISSUES
I agree. My mother-in-law goes to the Old Regular Baptist Church which amounts to a bunch of elderly folks from Kentucky, West Virginia and Southern Ohio holding services and traditions from the days of the circut preachers in the 19th century (it is an interesting experience to attend, almost a time warp to women sitting on one side, men on the other, etc...). They are very legalistic in many of their views, but the majority of them vote Democrat. My wife's uncle, who is a Republican attending the church, asked why they vote democrat. The response showed much ignorance - "We vote for the party, not the candidate." Their voting practices are still in a time warp just like their church! They do not realize that the part of FDR is now the party of the homosexuals, abortionists and secularists! However, to debate them is futile, as I tried once. They are very closed minded and believe the Republican party is the "party of the rich, not the working man." Sad indeed.
The basic presumption of the American constitutional system is the idea of limited government. There is always going to be some tension between people who expect their government to solve problems, and those who expect their government to set the stage so that they can solve them themselves.
Since these are tendencies, and someone who would prefer more government action on one issue might prefer less on another, there is always going to be disagreement between people of good will, and people who consistently lean one way or the other are going to coalesce into parties. It would be entirely possible for believers to fall into both camps.
Outside the US, there is no equivalent to the American Republican Party, the assumptions everywhere except here prevail that it is the governments job to manage people and business, and there are sincere, believing Christians who can't imagine that American-style government could ever work anywhere but America. They're wrong, of course, but they are no less Christian.
If assumptions about the role of government were the only thing separating the two, it would be entirely possible for Christians to be proud members of the DNC as well as the RNC. But that isn't the only thing separating them since the hard left took control. The hard left are marxists, and they have done everything possible to drive believers out of the party. For the hard left, an activist government is only the beginning of what they have in mind for us, and they will tolerate believers only as long as they can manipulate them, while holding them in contempt. Condescension when they need them, contempt when they don't.
I do believe that the Republican party tends to be closer to Christian principles than the Democrats but I also believe that there are Democrats that are Christians.
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Separation of the sheep from the goats, you will chose who you serve, God does not have gray areas, it is either right or wrong, for him or against him. You can't be 1/2 sheep and 1/2 goat. There will be no one sitting on the fence, even the middle area of lukewarm will get people spewed from his mouth. Be hot or cold but don't think you can hide in the middle. I think God was a bit strong about that!!
Christians accept Christ as their Lord and personal Savior. That does not mean that they we are free of sin. Coveting is a sin at least equal to the ones you mentioned above I, despite my best effort – from time to time – have been guilty of that sin; I am still a Christian. While denying a sin is a sin is hypocritical, it is – technically – not a greater sin than your average sin.
See #23 and #29
Strong enough that He became one of us, died a very painful death – which he could have avoided at any time, by simply getting off the cross – to save us from our sins. I do not believe that all Democrats will go to Hell, any more than I believe that all Republicans will go to Heaven.
We may agree on the relative ratios, but that is not the same thing.
he = He
Legalism and Liberalism go hand in hand. Politically correct busy-body, tyrannical mentalities, both.
The DemocRAT party is their natural home.
Jesus hung out with people who knew they were "sinners" and constantly condemned the attitude of the politically correct ("religious left") perfect people of His day.
Why, thank you!
So all Democrats go to hell?
No, thank you! I've been having this discussion with a couple of people for a couple of days, now, and you articulated it beautifully! You put things in a clear perspective very succinctly. Now, I know where to direct their browsers.
First, the term "Liberalism" in general defines a political philoshphy and not theological teachings or beliefs.
How convenient for this unknown person. All of the benefits but none of those nasty drawbacks like noting the ejecta of this philosophy and the damage it is causing to our society and to civilization.
A close reading of the Holy scriptures will show that neither liberalism nor conservatism is mentioned.
True enough. But right and wrong are definitely mentioned. Some of these instances are referred to as "Commandments". One side in this debate doesn't seem to be too enamored with these items, especially as they relate to the governing of our cities, towns and nation.
Both you and I have to make personal choices every day of our lives, and we will answer to God for each choice
That we will. But since this person doesn't seem willing to admit that many "liberals" make different choices from others (after all, he claims liberalism is a philosophy, not a system of belief) one wonders why this covering statement is included.
First, the bible teaches that ever political leader, (the bible says King), gains his authority from God and is there to serve God's purpose in some manner. The bible doesn' say ever good conservative King, it says ever King and even included that arch enemy of conservatives, William Jefferson Clinton.
Also true. But that argument would be more convincing if the author could tell us where Christians are instructed to knowingly and willingly support a "king" whose teachings do not align with Scripture.
Now let me give you a truism regarding Christianity. You can't accept part of God's teaching and throw out the parts you don't like.
Let me reply with another truism: one side of this debate is throwing out a heck of a lot more than the other side. This isn't a difficult thing to see.
I don't believe the Bible teaches communism any more than I believe it teaches conversativism. However, I believe it does teach us to love our fellow man, that we are our brother's keeper and the proper response to all mankind's problems is not to simply say "Get a Job."
All well and good. But while we are called to voluntarily help our fellow man, most conservatives I know believe that there is a Godly way to accomplish all these things - which does not involve breaking His laws.
Loving our fellow man does not include jumping into bed with him, or attempting to marry him. Being our brothers' keeper does not necessarily include being placed in involuntary financial servitude to the institutions dedicated to this purpose. And getting a job could very well be the best way for our downtrodden brothers and sisters to provide for themselves.
Our Lord never said that following His path would be easy. I too believe that it's a bit far-fetched to say you can't be both a Christian and a liberal, but the moral high-wire act a liberal Christian must perform seems infinitely more dangerous.
I agree completely. Christians can be saved and be wrong on many things. They need only be right on one.
But being pro-abortion, pro-homosexuality and pro-big government (which is liberalism) contradicts the Christian faith, and harms our witness to the world. I'm sure that you and I agree here.
Thanks for the reply - here is what I had sent to this fellow before I posted:
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Interesting that I should get your reply – although you were not one I sent this too.
There is a lot that you did not mention – of the more important points missed:
There are conservative Democrats and Liberal Republicans – it’s not completely a party line issue.
The Liberal agenda includes many blatantly anti –Bible ideologies such as Murder of unborn children, promotion of homosexual lifestyle, etc.
YES – the Bible teaches (particularly in the early Church) for CHURCH members to pool resources and to take care of orphans, widows, etc. It does NOT give instructions to the GOVERNMENT to do these things (unlike the liberal/leftist mentality). This is what separates my view on public assistance from the left’s.
Yes – ALL those in authority are there by the authority of God – as even unpleasant and terrible things also ALL work to the Glory of God. But we also get what we deserve – as our country sinks further into moral decay and indecency, so shall our level of leadership. I can’t help but wonder if we are being allowed to sink into the gutter much as Israel did before their judgment – to make a point and to teach a lesson. Notice how the good Kings in Israel was granted an “extension” of time before their judgment.
Neither political party is perfect – thus the reason I don’t vote a “straight party line”, instead voting for the candidate that most closely reflects my ideology. My rather “conservative” political point of view precludes me from voting for any candidate that comes down on the “wrong” side of issues as they relate to my beliefs.
Guess how many “liberal” candidates I typically vote for.....
Sounds like you and I were pretty much in agreement - which is good. I posted this and started sweating. LOL
I do not believe that all Democrats will go to Hell, any more than I believe that all Republicans will go to Heaven.
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Depends on your repentence, if your never responsible for your own actions, its everyone elses fault then what could you possibly have to repent for and what use would you have for Christ. WHO in their right mind would stand and support a group or a man who agreed with killing babies, and agreed with the very life style that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah? Then be so blind as to call themselves Christlike or Christian. Christ said He came that we would have life and life more abundantly. Both abortion and a gay life style speak death of mankind, I don't think that is what He intended. He did NOT give his life so we could destroy the creation of life!! His death was not a license to do as we please and fulfill the desires of our flesh and ideas of what is wrong or right. ALL fall short but to blatently choose a man you know is against God and his principals is not a cliff edge I care to stand on.
Liberalism has been hijacked by bizarre special-interest thugs who spit on the Word of God and believe that the Bible has no place in public life, (except maybe in a museum where people can look at it from time to time).
Except when something the bible says suits their purposes. Look now Kerry has been quoting Bible and talking about his fait..........only to get votes.
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