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This might be Jonah's best article...

Anyway, a point that is often ignored; it isn't those supporting the WoT who've changed their positions, but those who oppose the war.

In the lead up to the invasion of Iraq, the anti-war movement had two primary arguments;

1) Attacking Iraq will lead to the fall of "friendly" governments in Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan.

2) If we attack Iraq, Hussein will use his WMDs on our troops and Israel.

Amazingly, the anti-war zealots now claim that we should have invaded some other country - like Saudi Arabia or Pakistan, and that no one ever had reason to believe that Hussein had WMDs.

Pretty much every argument for the war has been proven to be correct save the last (for which the jury is still out);

1) Obviously Hussein was in violation of the terms of the cease fire.

2) Hussein had the capability and desire to build WMDs even if he did not have stockpiles.

3) Hussein had ties to terrorist groups.

4) Sanctions had little effect on Hussein's regime because France and Russia were still trading with him illegally.

5) Clearing out the cesspool of Arabic political culture is the only way to permanently end the threat of Islamist terror.

1 posted on 10/08/2004 2:32:12 PM PDT by swilhelm73
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To: swilhelm73

Excellent read, very concise.


2 posted on 10/08/2004 2:35:49 PM PDT by AZamericonnie (We could certainly slow the aging process down if it had to work its way through Congress. ~Will R)
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To: swilhelm73

bump for later


3 posted on 10/08/2004 2:37:23 PM PDT by Horatio Gates
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To: swilhelm73
If Bill Clinton or Al Gore had conducted this war, you would be weeping joyously about Iraqi children going to school and women registering to vote.

True.

Every day
that Saddam remained in power
was
another day that
1. Iraqi children starved
and
2. UNprincipled men grew richer.

I have a prediction.

Tonight John Kerry will announce that Bush took too long to fight Iraq.

4 posted on 10/08/2004 2:37:57 PM PDT by syriacus (I'm commanded to LOVE appeaseniks, but I don't have to VOTE for one as Commander-in-Chief)
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To: swilhelm73
I'm detecting a pretty consistent uptick in the anger barometer amongst the GOP. We are tired of Kerry's lies and red herrings.
5 posted on 10/08/2004 2:40:46 PM PDT by etradervic (GLOBAL TEST? Kerry can't even pass the SMELL TEST.)
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To: swilhelm73
Your position is totally logical and eloquently expressed.

However, it won't budge anybody on the left a whit. Logic has nothing to do with it. All they have is hatred...and an unquenchable thirst for power.

6 posted on 10/08/2004 2:44:47 PM PDT by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE)
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To: swilhelm73

Bump for later.


9 posted on 10/08/2004 2:52:11 PM PDT by outlawcam (No time to waste. Now get moving.)
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To: swilhelm73

"We can even use some of the extra money from the Oil-for-Food program to compensate him for the damage to his palaces and prisons.... Heck, if John Edwards weren't busy, he could represent him.+

This is awesome and hilarious. It really helped me get my hands around the situation. A comprehensive understanding has been eluding me. This situation requires more than a fifth grade education, which is all Kerry, Edwards and the Media want to assert.


10 posted on 10/08/2004 2:57:18 PM PDT by ruthles
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To: swilhelm73

BUMP article and post 1!


11 posted on 10/08/2004 2:59:00 PM PDT by Christian4Bush (I approve this message: The REAL "coalition of the coerced and bribed" is France and Germany!)
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To: swilhelm73

Here's what I don't get...2 things actually 1) Why isn't ANYONE mentioning the fact that if Saddam was so clean, had nothing going on, nothing to hide, why in the hell did he not come out in the final months before the war and say, look I'm clean, come on in and check it out, the sanctions would have been lifted, he would have been pitied by the left here and made into this downtrodden figure, beaten up by the mean Americans...there's more than just saying, "because he didn't think we'd attack", he knew he was dealing with Bush not ClinKerry...it's cuz he DID have some nasty stuff ready to brew and a plan to do it. 2) If Bush DIDN'T do what he did and go to Iraq, and he left Saddam and focused on Iran or whatever, here's what Kerry and Loons would be saying tonight... "This President let a sworn enemy sit and ignore threat after threat, resolution after resolution after I and others gave him the authority to attack...he's weak, misguided...blah...blah...freaking blah...".....Go W!!!


12 posted on 10/08/2004 3:07:00 PM PDT by gbtheshark (So thankful to be living in such interesting times!!!!)
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To: swilhelm73
(For Australian Eyes Only)

Shame, Shame, Shame

16 posted on 10/08/2004 3:23:13 PM PDT by Oztrich Boy (satire: the stealth viewpoint.)
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To: swilhelm73

Yes, this was a great article, good job posting it. It is really written with a lot of feeling and it is damning in its charges.


18 posted on 10/08/2004 3:35:45 PM PDT by jocon307 (Exuding grim purpose and resolve since 1958)
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To: swilhelm73

BUMP for a great column, and your great analysis!


19 posted on 10/08/2004 4:19:23 PM PDT by bootless (Never Forget - And Never Again)
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To: swilhelm73

bflr


20 posted on 10/08/2004 4:36:38 PM PDT by cgk (Calling it MemoGate is like saying Watergate had something to do w/ Water: WhistlingPasttheGraveyard)
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To: swilhelm73

We should have let sanctions work longer. We should have given inspections another try. The WMDs weren't there so we shouldn't have gone to war. It's a mistake. A grand diversion. The wrong war, the wrong place, at the wrong time.

Toronto Globe and Mail

Saddam's chambers of horrors
By MARGARET WENTE
Saturday, November 23, 2002


Abu Ghraib, 30 kilometres west of Baghdad, is Iraq's biggest prison. Until recently, it held perhaps 50,000 people, perhaps more. No one knows for sure. No one knows how many people were taken there through the years and never came out.
For a generation, Abu Ghraib was the centrepiece of Saddam Hussein's reign of torture and death. Yahya al-Jaiyashy is one of the survivors.

Mr. Jaiyashy is an animated, bearded man of 49 whose words can scarcely keep up with the torrent of his memories. Today he lives in Toronto with his second wife, Sahar. This week, he sat down with me to relate his story. With him were his wife, a lovely Iraqi woman in her mid-30s, and a friend, Haithem al-Hassan, who helped me with Mr. Jaiyashy's mixture of Arabic and rapid English.
"Nineteen seventy-seven was the first time I went to jail," he says. "I was not tortured that much."
He was in his mid-20s then, from an intellectual family that lived in a town south of Baghdad. He had been a student of Islamic history, language and religion in the holy city of Najaf, but was forced to quit his studies after he refused to join the ruling Ba'ath party. His ambition was to write books that would show how Islam could open itself up to modernism.

In Saddam's Iraq, this was a dangerous occupation, especially for a Shiite. Shia Muslims are the majority in Iraq, but Saddam and his inner circle are Sunni. Many Shiites were under suspicion as enemies of the state.
"My father was scared for me," says Mr. Jaiyashy. " 'You know how dangerous this regime is,' he told me. 'You know how many people they kill.' "

Mr. Jaiyashy continued his studies on his own. But, eventually, he was picked up, along with a dozen acquaintances who had been involved in political activity against the regime. They were sent to Abu Ghraib. The others did not get off as lightly as he did. One was killed by immersion into a vat of acid. Ten others, he recalls, were put into a room and torn apart by wild dogs. Several prominent religious leaders were also executed. One was a university dean, someone Mr. Jaiyashy remembers as "a great man." They drove a nail through his skull.

For three decades, the most vicious war Saddam has waged has been the one against his own people. Iraq's most devastating weapon of mass destruction is Saddam himself. And the most powerful case for regime change is their suffering.
Sometimes, it is almost impossible to believe the accounts of people who survived Saddam's chamber of horrors. They seem like twisted nightmares, or perhaps crude propaganda. But there are too many survivors who have escaped Iraq, too many credible witnesses. And Mr. Jaiyashy's story, horrible as it is, is not unusual.

Saddam personally enjoyed inflicting torture in the early years of his career, and he has modelled his police state after that of his hero, Stalin. According to Kenneth Pollack, a leading U.S. expert on Iraq, the regime employs as many as half a million people in its various intelligence, security and police organizations. Hundreds of thousands of others serve as informants. Neighbour is encouraged to inform on neighbour, children on their parents. Saddam has made Iraq into a self-policing totalitarian state, where everyone is afraid of everybody else.
"Being in Iraq is like creeping around inside someone else's migraine," says veteran BBC correspondent John Sweeney. "The fear is so omnipresent, you could almost eat it."
To Stalin's methods of arbitrary arrests and forced confessions, Saddam has added an element of sadism: the torture of children to extract information from their parents.

In northern Iraq -- the only place in the country where people can speak relatively freely -- Mr. Sweeney interviewed several people who had direct experience of child torture. He also met one of the victims -- a four-year-old girl, the daughter of a man who had worked for Saddam's psychopathic son Uday. When the man fell under suspicion, he fled to the Kurdish safe haven in the north. The police came for his wife and tortured her to reveal his whereabouts; when she didn't break, they took his daughter and crushed her feet. She was 2 then. Today, she wears metal braces on her legs, and can only hobble.

"This is a regime that will gouge out the eyes of children to force confessions from their parents and grandparents," writes Mr. Pollack in his new book, The Threatening Storm. "This is a regime that will hold a nursing baby at arm's length from its mother and allow the child to starve to death to force the mother to confess. This is a regime that will burn a person's limbs off to force him to confess or comply. This is a regime that will slowly lower its victims into huge vats of acid. . . .
"This is a regime that practises systematic rape against the female victims. This is a regime that will drag in a man's wife, daughter or other female relative and repeatedly rape her in front of him." And if he has fled the country, it will send him the video.

After nearly two years in prison, Mr. Jaiyashy was released and sent to do military service in the north. Then the security police decided to round up the followers of one of the executed clerics. In 1980, Mr. Jaiyashy was arrested again, along with 20 friends, and taken to a military prison. He was interrogated about criticisms he was supposed to have made of the regime, and urged to sign a confession. During one session, his wrists were tied to a ceiling fan. Then they turned on the fan. Then they added weights onto his body and did it again. Then somebody climbed on him to add more weight. "It was 20 minutes, but it seemed like 20 years," he recalls.
He was beaten with a water hose filled with stones. When he passed out, he was shocked back into consciousness with an electric cable. They hung him by his legs, pulled out a fingernail with pliers, and drove an electric drill through his foot.

Mr. Jaiyashy took off his right shoe and sock to show me his foot. It is grotesquely mutilated, with a huge swelling over the arch. There is an Amnesty International report on human-rights abuses in Iraq with a photo of a mutilated foot that looks identical to his. The baby finger on his left hand is also mutilated.
He didn't sign the confession. He knew that, if he did, they would eventually kill him.
They put him in solitary confinement, in a cell measuring two metres by two and a half, without windows or light. Every few weeks, they would bring him the confession again, but he refused to sign. He stayed there for a year.

In 1981, he was sent to trial, where he persuaded a sympathetic judge not to impose the death sentence. He got 10 years instead, and was sent back to Abu Ghraib. "They put me in a cell with 50 people. It was three and a half by three and a half metres. Some stood, some sat. They took turns."
There was a small window in the cell, with a view of a tree. It was the only living thing the prisoners could see. The tree was cut down. There were informants in the cells and, every morning, guards would come and take someone and beat him till he died. "This is your breakfast!" they would say.
Mr. Jaiyashy spent the next six years in that cell. His parents were told he was dead.

Abu Ghraib contained many intellectuals and professional people. Among them was the scientist Hussein Shahristani, a University of Toronto alumnus who became a leading nuclear scientist in Iraq. He was imprisoned after he refused to work on Saddam's nuclear program. He spent 10 years in Abu Ghraib, most of them in solitary confinement, until he escaped in 1991.

Saddam has reduced his people to abject poverty. He wiped out families, villages, cities and cultures, and drove four million people into exile. He killed between 100,000 and 200,000 Kurds. He killed as many as 300,000 Shiites in the uprising after the Persian Gulf war. He killed or displaced 200,000 of the 250,000 marsh Arabs who had created a unique, centuries-old culture in the south. He drained the marshes, an environmental treasure, and turned them into a desert.

In a recent Frontline documentary, a woman who fled Iraq recounted how she and others had been forced to witness the public beheadings of 15 women who had been rounded up for prostitution and other crimes against the state. One of the women was a doctor who had been misreported as speaking against the regime. "They put her head in a trash can," she said.

In 1987, Mr. Jaiyashy and a thousand other inmates were transferred to an outdoor prison camp. There, they were allowed a visit with their relatives, so long as they said nothing of their lives in prison. Mr. Jaiyashy's parents came, hoping he might still be alive. He remembers the day all the families came. "There was so much crying. We called it the crying day."

In 1989, he was finally released from prison. Then came the gulf war and, after that, the uprising, which he joined. It was quickly crushed. He fled with 150,000 refugees toward the Saudi border. But the Saudis didn't want them. "They are Wahhabis," he says. "They consider the Shia as infidels." The United Nations set up a refugee camp, where Mr. Jaiyashy spent the next six years. He began to paint and write again.
Finally, he was accepted as an immigrant to Canada. He arrived in Toronto in 1996, and is now a Canadian citizen.

Mr. Jaiyashy has a deep sense of gratitude toward his adoptive country. Canada, he says, has given him back his freedom and his dignity. He paints prolifically, and has taken courses at the art college, and is the author of three plays about the Saddam regime. He makes his living stocking shelves in a fabric store. "I'm a porter," he says. "No problem. I'm happy."

But Saddam's spies are everywhere. After one of his plays was produced here, his father was imprisoned. His first wife and three children are still in Iraq. He hasn't seen them since his youngest, now 12, was a baby. He talks with them on the phone from time to time, but it is very dangerous. One of his brothers is in Jordan, another still in Iraq.
Sahar, his second wife, is soft-spoken. She covers her head and dresses modestly, without makeup. Her face is unlined. She arrived in Canada with her two daughters the same year as Mr. Jaiyashy; they were introduced by friends.

She, too, has a story. I learned only the smallest part of it. "I was a widow," she told me. "My husband was a doctor in Iraq. He wanted to continue his education and have a specialty. But they didn't allow him. He deserted the military service to continue his education on his own. They beat him till he died."
Today, her daughters are in high school and she teaches at a daycare centre. Her new husband pushed her to study hard here. "ESL, ESL," she says affectionately.
Like many Iraqis, they are conflicted about the prospect of war. They want Saddam gone. But they do not want more harm inflicted on their country. "I want Saddam gone -- only him," says Mr. Jaiyashy.

A few weeks ago, Saddam threw open the doors of Abu Ghraib and freed the prisoners there. Many families rejoiced, and many others, who did not find their loved ones, mounted a brief, unheard-of protest against the regime. The prison is a ghost camp now. Nothing is left but piles of human excrement that cake the razor wire.

Saddam's Iraq is a rebuke to anyone who may doubt that absolute evil dwells among us. No one has put it better than Mr. Sweeney, the BBC reporter. "When I hear the word Iraq, I hear a tortured child screaming."


21 posted on 10/08/2004 8:51:48 PM PDT by Valin (I'll try being nicer if you'll try being smarter.)
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To: swilhelm73
But forget all that. I just watched John Kerry preen in front of the cameras about how "good diplomacy" would have prevented the mistake he voted for. "Good diplomacy" in John Kerry's world would have let French and Russian politicians continue to line their pockets in the name of keeping Saddam in power so he could rape and murder and torture until "good diplomacy" welcomed him back into the "international community" and gave him the weapons he sought. I suppose in John Kerry's world good diplomacy lets the boys in the back of the bar finish raping the girl for fear of causing a fuss.

Wonderfully clear and concise paragraph. If you're reading this, JG, thank you for this column. Great stuff.

22 posted on 10/08/2004 8:58:01 PM PDT by savedbygrace
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To: swilhelm73
How could Bush think he could pull this thing off? I mean, knowing as he did that there were no WMDs in Iraq, how could he invade the country and think no one would notice?

Brilliant analysis.

23 posted on 10/08/2004 9:02:02 PM PDT by savedbygrace
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To: swilhelm73

I totally agree. This is one of Jonah Goldberg's best articles ever. He just nails the liberals and their win at any cost mentality.


24 posted on 10/09/2004 12:47:40 AM PDT by Utah Girl
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