Posted on 10/07/2004 5:11:33 PM PDT by neverdem
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October 07, 2004, 8:53 a.m. Seared in Their Memories
Amid the controversies over John Kerry's and George W. Bush's real and invented military records, the Mainstream Media spotlight has avoided one amazing fact: Former Vietnam POWs remember their captors using Kerry's words as instruments of intimidation and torture.
"The interrogator went through all of these statements from John Kerry," recalls James Warner, a Marine pilot who was shot down and held near Hanoi for five years and five months. "He starts pounding on the table. 'See, here, this naval officer. He admits that you are a criminal and that you deserve punishment.' ...I didn't know what was going to come next. In other words, for the rest of the time we were in that camp, I was very ill at ease."
Warner who earned a Silver Star and two Purple Hearts appears in Stolen Honor: Wounds That Never Heal. This 45-minute documentary, produced by Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Carlton Sherwood, is available via stolenhonor.com. It presents POWs who argue that John Kerry's fallacious spring 1971 claims that U.S. atrocities occurred "on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command" amplified their agony under America's North Vietnamese enemies. (See, also, Kate O'Beirne, "Honor Reclaimed.")
"That was a very difficult time," says former Air Force pilot Leo Thorsness, a Congressional Medal of Honor winner who spent five years and 19 days in North Vietnamese hands. "The things he [Kerry] said were just devastating, because he was using words like 'war criminal' and that kind of stuff. As a prisoner of war, we were being told we were war criminals, and that we'd be tried for war crimes, and unless we confess, and ask for forgiveness, and badmouth the war, and take their side in the war, we'd never go home."
Adds retired Air Force colonel Ken Cordier: "I was outraged and still am that he [Kerry] willingly said things which were untrue the very same points that we took torture not to write and say." Cordier was incarcerated for six years and three months.
Stolen Honor describes the conditions in which POWs were detained. They were held in solitary confinement and communicated among each other by tapping coded messages through the dark, dank walls. Some prisoners were hung from the walls with their wrists behind their backs, causing shoulder injuries that persist even today. Others, who broke limbs in combat, were forced to sit or stand in positions that exacerbated their agony. The North Vietnamese constantly tormented them psychologically, to fracture their will and shatter their morale. John Kerry's voice aided those efforts.
Former Navy pilot Paul Galanti remembers his jailers at the so-called Hanoi Hilton playing English-language radio broadcasts of Kerry's April 22, 1971 testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.
"They made a big deal about this guy who was a naval officer, talking about all these atrocities and war crimes," Galanti told Human Events. "They'd been for years saying, 'You're not prisoners of war, you're war criminals. You're never going home. We're going to try you after the war, and you'll all be found guilty of war crimes.'"
Not long ago, Galanti linked that voice from yesterday with the man running for president today. While recently watching a documentary on the peace movement, Galanti heard Kerry claim that American GIs in Vietnam "razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan." Kerry distinctly pronounced "Genghis" with soft Gs (as in "gelatin") rather than hard ones (as in "grit").
"Right away, I said, 'Hey, wait a minute. That's the guy I heard in Hanoi,'" Galanti concluded.
Former Air Force captain Tom Collins also remembers his North Vietnamese captors forcing him to listen to Kerry's statements as well as Jane Fonda's antiwar remarks.
"I wasn't necessarily disappointed in Jane Fonda," Collins told Human Events. "I figured she's just some airhead Hollywood actress. So what? But then along comes this military officer...I expected more out of a Navy lieutenant. That's why I was so demoralized. It was far worse for him to do it."
Put yourself in these men's shoes: Imagine the prospect of hearing from the Oval Office the same voice your jailers used 33 years ago to break your mind in two.
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http://www.nationalreview.com/murdock/murdock200410070853.asp
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JOHN KERRY = Enemy of Vietnam Vets
http://www.TheAlamoFILM.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1320
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FYI..............PING
Ping ... the POW film we heard about last night ... mentions your friend Leo.
We heard from one of the POWs (not one mentioned in this article) at a program in Monroe, NC, last night. He was an absolutely compelling presence ... righteous rage personified.
See this group of Swift Boats patrolling together? They are NOT SERVING together!!! Only the ones on the SAME BOAT are serving together! Each group of personnel on each boat know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about the personnel on the other boat, PERIOD !! If they say they do, they are Republican LIARS !! Unless the one talking is a DemocRAT. Then he is telling the truth, of course.
This idjit needs to release HIS MILITARY RECORDS!
Help the Kerry Campaign With Its paperwork!
Email Them a Standard Form 180 Now!
John Kerry should have been arrested as a war criminal back in the '70's.
October 07, 2004, 8:53 a.m. Amid the controversies over John Kerry's and George W. Bush's real and invented military records, the Mainstream Media spotlight has avoided one amazing fact: Former Vietnam POWs remember their captors using Kerry's words as instruments of intimidation and torture. "The interrogator went through all of these statements from John Kerry," recalls James Warner, a Marine pilot who was shot down and held near Hanoi for five years and five months. "He starts pounding on the table. 'See, here, this naval officer. He admits that you are a criminal and that you deserve punishment.' ...I didn't know what was going to come next. In other words, for the rest of the time we were in that camp, I was very ill at ease." Warner who earned a Silver Star and two Purple Hearts appears in Stolen Honor: Wounds That Never Heal. This 45-minute documentary, produced by Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Carlton Sherwood, is available via stolenhonor.com. It presents POWs who argue that John Kerry's fallacious spring 1971 claims that U.S. atrocities occurred "on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command" amplified their agony under America's North Vietnamese enemies. (See, also, Kate O'Beirne, "Honor Reclaimed.") "That was a very difficult time," says former Air Force pilot Leo Thorsness, a Congressional Medal of Honor winner who spent five years and 19 days in North Vietnamese hands. "The things he [Kerry] said were just devastating, because he was using words like 'war criminal' and that kind of stuff. As a prisoner of war, we were being told we were war criminals, and that we'd be tried for war crimes, and unless we confess, and ask for forgiveness, and badmouth the war, and take their side in the war, we'd never go home." Adds retired Air Force colonel Ken Cordier: "I was outraged and still am that he [Kerry] willingly said things which were untrue the very same points that we took torture not to write and say." Cordier was incarcerated for six years and three months. Stolen Honor describes the conditions in which POWs were detained. They were held in solitary confinement and communicated among each other by tapping coded messages through the dark, dank walls. Some prisoners were hung from the walls with their wrists behind their backs, causing shoulder injuries that persist even today. Others, who broke limbs in combat, were forced to sit or stand in positions that exacerbated their agony. The North Vietnamese constantly tormented them psychologically, to fracture their will and shatter their morale. John Kerry's voice aided those efforts. Former Navy pilot Paul Galanti remembers his jailers at the so-called Hanoi Hilton playing English-language radio broadcasts of Kerry's April 22, 1971 testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. "They made a big deal about this guy who was a naval officer, talking about all these atrocities and war crimes," Galanti told Human Events. "They'd been for years saying, 'You're not prisoners of war, you're war criminals. You're never going home. We're going to try you after the war, and you'll all be found guilty of war crimes.'" Not long ago, Galanti linked that voice from yesterday with the man running for president today. While recently watching a documentary on the peace movement, Galanti heard Kerry claim that American GIs in Vietnam "razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan." Kerry distinctly pronounced "Genghis" with soft Gs (as in "gelatin") rather than hard ones (as in "grit"). "Right away, I said, 'Hey, wait a minute. That's the guy I heard in Hanoi,'" Galanti concluded. Former Air Force captain Tom Collins also remembers his North Vietnamese captors forcing him to listen to Kerry's statements as well as Jane Fonda's antiwar remarks. "I wasn't necessarily disappointed in Jane Fonda," Collins told Human Events. "I figured she's just some airhead Hollywood actress. So what? But then along comes this military officer...I expected more out of a Navy lieutenant. That's why I was so demoralized. It was far worse for him to do it." Put yourself in these men's shoes: Imagine the prospect of hearing from the Oval Office the same voice your jailers used 33 years ago to break your mind in two. |
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http://www.nationalreview.com/murdock/murdock200410070853.asp
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>>>>"That was a very difficult time," says former Air Force pilot Leo Thorsness, a Congressional Medal of Honor winner who spent five years and 19 days in North Vietnamese hands. "The things he [Kerry] said were just devastating, because he was using words like 'war criminal' and that kind of stuff. As a prisoner of war, we were being told we were war criminals, and that we'd be tried for war crimes, and unless we confess, and ask for forgiveness, and badmouth the war, and take their side in the war, we'd never go home."<<<<
AMAZING, TAX-CHICK, SIMPLY AMAZING! I've been online since 1996 or so and it never ceases to amaze me! I better stop here before I start in with a sappy rendition of "It's a Small World After All!!" LOL!
ALAS: I don't know if you remember, but quite a long time ago, we talked about Leo and you knew of him and linked me to a bio of his. Thought you might be interested in this article.
FYI ALL INTERESTED: In the early to mid 1980's, I was a volunteer for a group spearheaded by Pres Reagan called Vietnam Veterans Leadership Program, in Los Angeles. Our primary goals were (1) finding jobs and making referrals for other services for VVets and (2) correcting the false impression of VVets -- the impression that anti-American lefties like SKerry falsely gave. (I was ultimately made an honorary member of the board, she bragged!)
The Board of Directors consisted of only Vietnam combat vets, and Leo Thorsness was the Chair -- as I recall, the guys referred to Leo as a "full bird Col." The only two other names I can remember are Brig Gen Roland F. Cinciarelli (president) and Hap Griffith -- there were about 4 or 5 others in the inner circle.
We had tons of vols -- Hughes Aircraft; Northrup; other large employers sympathetic to us; and many private individuals, one of whom was an older man by the last name of Shanker (can't remember 1st name). He literally just strolled into the office one day and turned out to be invaluable! He had been in WWII as some sort of intellegence officer type (the BOD checked his story) -- I think it was called OSS....that eventually morphed into the CIA....?
Anyway, Leo was one of the most memorable persons I ever met. He suffered from debilitating back pain from his time as a POW, yet I never once heard him complain -- he was always upbeat; his leadership was truly the best I've ever worked under. I remember his respect, devotion and love for his wife. I also remember that he had a quiet, simple faith in God and it showed.
Sorry to go on and on, but these wonderful memories are coming back like a flood -- the men involved with the VVLP overlooked my youthful foolishness; they allowed any and all questions, observations, and rants (once, Gen Cinciarelli even told a group of people that I was entitled to my opinions for, after all, that was what they fought for. And truly I say to you that memory brings tears to my older and wiswer eyes.
At the risk of y'all misunderstanding my meaning, I've been totally turned on by the SWIFTIES!! LOL!!
What I've been doing is this (nothing original, I'm sure): I printed off the Swiftie ad (on their website www.swiftvets.com and printed in St. Louis Post recently) and left a couple copies everywhere I went this weekend -- in the dressing rooms at the mall, in the laundry room at my apartment, on the restaurant table under the tip! Of course, I copied the link and sent it via email, too! These are the things we can do.
GO SWIFTIES GO and may God continue to bless America!
<><
Thanks ... great stories! (I met Admiral Hyman Rickover once :-).
Tell me about meeting Rickover! Don't make me beg! hehehe
Obligatory self-correction to post #10:
wiswer = wiser
End paren after "eyes."
<><
I was about 12 years old, and he was the guest of honor at a Change of Command or something that we attended (Dad was a Navy pilot, and later something with nuclear weapons). Anyway, I got to shake his hand (he wasn't any taller than I was :-), and say, "I'm very pleased to meet you, Admiral!" He smiled and said I was a nice young lady, and we moved on.
Anticlimax, I know!
Well, at least you, as a 12 year old, said something intelligent, coherent, and gracious! I attended a breakfast for Dubya (right before 2000 election in Kalifornicate) with about 200 others. As I was standing in line to shake his hand, I formulated at least three really intelligent things to say to him. So what do I say when my turn came? "I...uh...I...um...I...really like your mom! Yeah, your mom. She's...she's really great!" I WAS MORTIFIED!! ROFLOL!
Is your dad still with us?
<><
Yes, Dad's in his late 60's, physically in quite good health, but losing short-term memory. Of course, I don't have any short-term memory either, since I haven't slept all night in at least a year.
I saw GHW Bush when he was running for VP in 1984; he did a campaign stop at my college, and the College Republicans got to talk to him. I said, "Pleased to meet you, Mr. Vice President! We hope you'll be reelected!"
I'm known for my original conversation :-). My mother taught me that you can't go wrong with the standards.
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