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Is the Sun really hot?
alternative science ^

Posted on 10/06/2004 8:44:49 AM PDT by -=[_Super_Secret_Agent_]=-

Is the Sun really hot?

The question is, on the face of it, almost insane. No-one could possibly doubt that the sun is the only source of external heat on earth. And, certainly, the part that we see, the sun's photosphere, is some 5,800 degrees Kelvin. The solar corona, which extends into space, may be as hot as one million degrees Kelvin. But what exactly is underneath this hot atmosphere? The explanation universally accepted without question is that it must be an even hotter mass of hydrogen gas, fusing into helium and other elements at temperatures of 15 million degrees Kelvin in a continuous thermonuclear explosion -- a giant H bomb.

This universal view is based on the mathematical work of Arthur Eddington in the 1930s and Hans Bethe's theoretical confirmation in the 1950s (for which he won the Nobel prize in 1967). Above all else, we have the overwhelmingly awesome experimental confirmation of the nature of nuclear fusion by the test detonations of H bombs in the Pacific.

However, physicists have always been aware of nagging problems with the conventional view of how stars form and how they burn. And now, Italian physicist Renzo Boscoli, has published details of a theory that is staggering: the theory that far from being hot underneath its atmosphere, the sun may, at its core, be a ball of ice in which not hot, but cold fusion reactions are taking place.

The conventional view of how stars form is that a cloud of interstellar hydrogen collapses under gravity until, under enormous pressure, the atoms of hydrogen become so hot they fuse to form helium. Once ignited, the core of the newly formed star burns continuously, transmuting hydrogen to helium, helium to carbon and so on, until the fuel is exhausted and the star's life is over.

There are some problems with this view. For instance, when gases are compressed, as under gravity, they also heat up, and this makes them expand. As temperature increases, the outward force due to expansion will become greater than the force of gravity compressing the gas and the gas will simply dissipate in space again. How then could the condensing hydrogen cloud ever ignite spontaneously?

There are many other puzzling features of the sun: how can a surface at 'only' 5,800 degrees Kelvin give rise to a corona of 1 million degrees Kelvin? Why does the surface rotate faster at the equator than at higher latitudes? Why does the planet Mercury have a strangely perturbed motion?

In two ground-breaking papers published in Infinite Energy magazine, Renzo Boscoli offers some astounding answers to these puzzles.

Boscoli points out a phenomenon discovered in the 1930s but -- like many such anomalies -- virtually ignored since. French physicist Georges Ranque discovered that if you make a body of gas rotate, as in a turbine, the hottest (most energetic) molecules are somehow separated to the outside of the mass, while the gas at the centre gets colder. It is relatively easily experimentally to make a 'Ranque tube' where the difference in temperature between air in the middle and air at the outside is more than 100 degrees C, simply by causing the air to rotate.

This experimental result appears to contradict the laws of thermodynamics and at present remains unexplained. But Boscoli points out that its implications for the formation of stars may be immense.

While a cloud of hydrogen condensing under gravity is an unlikely candidate for a new star because heat would make it expand and dissipate again, a rotating cloud of hydrogen would give rise to a remarkable object -- one where the temperature at its exterior would continue to rise while the temperature at its core would continue to fall. At first the hydrogen core would become so cold it would liquify and finally solidify.

Says Boscoli, 'If this mass of gas . . . would begin to rotate upon itself, it would necessarily assume a progressively flatter ellipsoidal form as its rotational velocity increased. And . . the Ranque effect would begin to be exerted, therefore producing a cooling at the centre and a heating of the periphery of the ellipsoid.'

He adds, 'Due to a constant Ranque effect I see no reason why the centre would not continue to cool towards absolute zero.'

Boscoli first conceived his ideas some thirty years ago. He has published them for the first time because the Arecibo radiotelescope has reported finding an enormous hydrogen cloud that is very cold (around minus 200 degrees C) and that is rotating on its own axis.

Boscoli goes onto add that nuclear reactions such as that of the H bomb are impossible at absolute zero. But he believes that 'cold' nuclear fusion reactions may be possible due to the immense gravitational pressures. The reaction he envisages is that of the gravitational collapse of a proton and electron, producing a neutron.

Boscoli's theory solves the problem of Mercury's strange orbit and the sun's differential rotation. It also explains sunspots as simply holes in the atmosphere. If Boscoli is right, there may after all, be 'something new under the sun.'


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: coldfusion; fusion; juergens; sun; thesunpage3ishot; velikovsky
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To: RandallFlagg
>Is the Sun really hot?

Maybe it's one of
those trick questions, like: "Do these
clothes make me look fat
?"





101 posted on 10/08/2004 11:29:43 AM PDT by theFIRMbss
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To: mhking
.....Anything over 95 degrees is just plain hot.....

Interesting limit.

Personally when people tell me "it sure is hot" and the thermometer says 87, "I tell them it's just very warm. The thermometer has to read 92 before it's hot".

96+ garners the adjective "plain" Of course that's in Tennesse where we have humidity.
102 posted on 10/08/2004 11:39:20 AM PDT by bert (Peace is only halftime !)
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To: Swordmaker
Ping!
103 posted on 06/07/2005 10:39:57 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FR profiled updated Tuesday, May 10, 2005. Fewer graphics, faster loading.)
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To: -=[_Super_Secret_Agent_]=-

Thanks, SSA, fascinating.

Jupiter's Spots Disappear Amid Major Climate Change
Space.com | 21 April 2004 | Robert Roy Britt
Posted on 04/21/2004 2:04:19 PM PDT by Yo-Yo
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1121982/posts

Scientific maverick's theory on Earth's core up for a test
SF Chronicle | Monday, November 29, 2004 | Keay Davidson
Posted on 12/05/2004 11:17:28 AM PST by SunkenCiv
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1294934/posts


104 posted on 06/07/2005 10:47:34 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FR profiled updated Tuesday, May 10, 2005. Fewer graphics, faster loading.)
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To: vannrox; Swordmaker
Ping!
105 posted on 07/20/2005 10:56:19 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Down with Dhimmicrats! I last updated by FR profile on Tuesday, May 10, 2005.)
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To: Swordmaker

whoops, sorry.


106 posted on 07/20/2005 10:56:47 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Down with Dhimmicrats! I last updated by FR profile on Tuesday, May 10, 2005.)
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To: -=[_Super_Secret_Agent_]=-
the sun may, at its core, be a ball of ice

This is staggering, if true. We will never run out of ice!

107 posted on 07/20/2005 11:07:45 PM PDT by Larry Lucido
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To: -=[_Super_Secret_Agent_]=-
Is the Sun really hot?

As Richard "Cheech" Marin once famously asked, does Howdy Doody have wooden b***s?

108 posted on 07/20/2005 11:12:26 PM PDT by RichInOC ("What's Labrador?" "It's dog s**t.")
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To: RandallFlagg
Did you say Hot?


109 posted on 07/20/2005 11:17:34 PM PDT by Paul_Denton (Get the U.N. out of the U.S. and U.S. out of the U.N.!)
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To: Wonder Warthog
" I wonder how this would factor into the "missing neutrino" data."

There are no missing neutrinos. They transform during the time of flight to the Earth, so they went previously unnoticed. That means they're well accounted for. THe article is tin foil.

110 posted on 07/20/2005 11:23:20 PM PDT by spunkets
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To: RandallFlagg

I can't stand that b-tch. And I am a heterosexual male. Maybe its my congenital hatred of Russians.


111 posted on 07/20/2005 11:24:22 PM PDT by Clemenza (JJesus CChrist MMade SSeattle UUnder PProtest)
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To: Paul_Denton
Did somone say hot? (corrected)


112 posted on 07/20/2005 11:28:19 PM PDT by Paul_Denton (Get the U.N. out of the U.S. and U.S. out of the U.N.!)
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To: Nick The Freeper

Degrees Kelvin is fine. K is the scale and it's unit is degrees. All temp scales are in units of degrees.


113 posted on 07/20/2005 11:29:35 PM PDT by spunkets
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To: hyperpoly8

If the wind chill factor was absolute zero, would all molecular activity stop or would it just feel like it did?


114 posted on 07/20/2005 11:50:29 PM PDT by Hillarys Gate Cult (Pray for us all.)
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To: Hillarys Gate Cult
Absolute zero means there's no translational energy. The molecules however, vibrate in their lowest energy state. If there's a wind, there's translational energy and you'll never hit absolute zero. You'll only reach a temp in between the wind molecules and the collection of molecules, or equal to the wind if it's a large enough group of molecules.

Wind chill never cools things to below it's own temp. It only cools things off faster, because of heat transfer considerations. It removes the temp. gradient of air surrounding a hot body. If the temps are opposite, the same happens.

115 posted on 07/21/2005 12:22:43 AM PDT by spunkets
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To: Servant of the 9
Boscoli points out a phenomenon discovered in the 1930s but -- like many such anomalies -- virtually ignored since. French physicist Georges Ranque discovered that if you make a body of gas rotate, as in a turbine, the hottest (most energetic) molecules are somehow separated to the outside of the mass, while the gas at the centre gets colder. It is relatively easily experimentally to make a 'Ranque tube' where the difference in temperature between air in the middle and air at the outside is more than 100 degrees C, simply by causing the air to rotate.

Okay, this is a working theory and not just a crackpot idea.

Given the intense level of gravity at the core of the sun, it is possible the core of the sun is composed hydrogen and helium gas in a cold supersolid state that is so compressed that it constantly shatters, explodes, collapses and reforms back into a solid state.

116 posted on 07/21/2005 12:32:23 AM PDT by Paul C. Jesup
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To: -=[_Super_Secret_Agent_]=-
Boscoli points out a phenomenon discovered in the 1930s but -- like many such anomalies -- virtually ignored since. French physicist Georges Ranque discovered that if you make a body of gas rotate, as in a turbine, the hottest (most energetic) molecules are somehow separated to the outside of the mass, while the gas at the centre gets colder. It is relatively easily experimentally to make a 'Ranque tube' where the difference in temperature between air in the middle and air at the outside is more than 100 degrees C, simply by causing the air to rotate.

This isn't a subject that I know much about, but from doing some casual Google searches, surprisingly the above paragraph appears to be true. Here is what appears to be a current version of the device (a "Wirbelrohr"):

Apparently, all it takes is some compressed air, and out comes cool air on one side and hot air on the other.

One source mentioned that as far back as 1958 such a device appeared in the old Scientific American Amateur Scientist column.

Commercially, there appears to be a company that sells these devices. Here's an English translation courtesy of Google of a page from their website:

   

 

 


Principle of the wirbelrohrs

 

 


Our wirbelrohre are available in many sizes with different cooling performance.
Standing: 308BSP and 208BSP
Lying: 106BSP and 328BSP





Wirbelrohre

The principle of the wirbelrohrs:

The wirbelrohr was discovered 1930 by the French physicist Georges Ranque. Vortec was the first enterprise, which developed effective applications of cooling for the industry on the basis of the eddy tubing principle use in general practice. Here a short description of the eddy tubing principle follows.

Liquid, which turns around an axle - like a Tornado -, as "eddy" designated. A wirbelrohr produces an eddy from compressed air and separates it into two rivers, a hot and a cool air stream. Compressed air occurs a cylindrical generator, which is proportionally larger than (for a long time) is called pipe, where she shifts air there present in turn. Afterwards circling air at the inner wall of the hot pipe is pressed along, where it reaches speeds of 1,000,000 U/min. At the end of the hot pipe a small part of this air escapes by a needle valve at the hot-air withdrawal. Remaining air is led back obligatorily with lower speed by the center of the occurring air flow. The warmth in more slowly flowing air is transferred to faster flowing occurring air. Undercooled air flows by the center of the generator to the cool air withdrawal.

 

The wirbelrohre of ITW Vortec are available in a broad size scale for different process and applications of point cooling. They offer still higher cooling performance than the cool air pistols.

Characteristics:

  • Cooling without refrigerants (CFC/HCFC) and without moved parts, thus reliably and interference-proof
  • no electricity, intrinsically safe, no HF disturbances
  • compact and easy building method, thus easy installation, also within with difficulty accessible, narrow ranges
Model
Compressed air 100 PSIG
Compressed air 6.9 bar
kcal/h

> > > Mailsupport

> > > telephone support

Consumption
SCFM
Consumption
l/min.
Temperature
Waste °C *
106bsp-2-h
2
57
34
25
106bsp-4-h
4
113
44
64
106bsp-8-h
8
227
45
101
208bsp-11-h
11
312
47
161
208bsp-15-h
15
425
47
227
208bsp-25-h
25
708
37
378
308bsp-35-h
35
992
42
668
328bsp-50-h
50
1416
44
756
328bsp-75-h
75
2125
47
1134
328bsp-100-h
100
2833
43
1512

Achievement in kcal/h with compressed air dried by 21°C, on a dew point of -40°C.

* The temperature of the air flow can be lowered additionally around 11°C. Lower air flow temperatures can be reached, as the hot-air stream is strengthened by the attitude of the needle valve. The needle valve is in the hot-air withdrawal. Wirbelrohre produce at smaller air flow, lower temperatures and smaller kcal/h achievement.


Accessories:

Model
Description
106GEN
independent generator for wirbelrohr indicate 106 when ordering: 2, 4 or 8 SCFM
106MCBSP
Cold the muffler for wirbelrohr 106
208GEN
independent generator for wirbelrohr indicate 208 when ordering: 11, 15, 25 or 35 SCFM
208MCBSP
Cold the muffler for wirbelrohr 208 or 308
208MH
Being called muffler for wirbelrohr 106 or 208
308MH
Being called muffler for wirbelrohr 308
328M
Cold or being called muffler for wirbelrohr 328
328XB
independent generator for wirbelrohr indicate 328 when ordering: 50, 75 or 100 SCFM

117 posted on 07/21/2005 1:42:38 AM PDT by snowsislander
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To: spunkets

Degrees Kelvin is obsolete. It was changed in 1967.

NIST Reference on Constants, Units, and Uncertainty - http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/kelvin.html


118 posted on 07/21/2005 4:58:02 AM PDT by Nick The Freeper
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To: -=[_Super_Secret_Agent_]=-
"Verrry Interesting!"
119 posted on 07/21/2005 5:10:10 AM PDT by Lockbar (March toward the sound of the guns.)
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To: -=[_Super_Secret_Agent_]=-
Is the Sun really hot?

It is here. It's over 120 degrees today and I have a feeling the sun plays a part in that.

Is the sun hot where you are?

120 posted on 07/21/2005 5:11:53 AM PDT by Allegra (Less Than 30 Days Until R&R - W'HOOOO!)
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