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Putin: Ally or Terrorist? (Russian FSB/KGB Real Culprits Behind "Chechen Terrorism")
The New American ^ | February 2002 | William Jasper

Posted on 09/21/2004 8:24:29 PM PDT by GIJoel

Putin: Ally or Terrorist? by William F. Jasper

Counting Vladimir Putin as an ally against terrorism ignores his career in the murderous KGB/FSB and his ongoing support for terrorist regimes and organizations.

‘‘Lena Goncharuk, aged 38, said that she was the only one to survive out of a group of six who were ordered out of the cellar where they had been hiding and shot at point blank range. Resting in her hospital bed, her voice barely rising above a whisper, she said she had survived only by pretending to be dead." So reported Paul Wood from the Chechen border for The Independent of London on February 6, 2000, as "triumphant" Russian troops occupied Grozny, the capital of Chechnya. Wood’s article, entitled "Chechnya’s civilians put to the sword," continued with Mrs. Goncharuk’s story:

"They [the Russian soldiers] were asking for cigarettes, then they asked, ‘Do you have a radio,’ and they said, ‘Give it to us,’" she said, explaining that the four women and two men were sent back down into the cellar after handing over their valuables.

"We hadn’t even sat down," she went on, "then they began throwing grenades into the cellar and shooting. We all were crying and suffocating, the smell was unbearable. We were crying out, we could not see anything but they continued to shoot.

"We said, ‘Guys what are you doing? We are civilians.’ They stopped shooting and they said to come out of the cellar. Our legs and heads were wounded and we could hardly move but we got up, supporting each other.

"The first out were two Russian women, Luda and Natasha. We were standing inside the garage over the cellar and they started shooting at point blank range. The others were twisting in pain.... Natasha was lying dead already....

"There was one old man with us. His head was covered in blood.... Then they started firing again.

"If I had looked up I would have been shot. I opened my eye just a little bit, all I saw was the muzzles of their guns and their boots."

Putin’s "Liberation"

Two hospital beds down from Lena Goncharuk was another victim of the Russian "liberation." Unlike Goncharuk, Hedi Makhauri, a 40-year-old Chechen mother, had not been trapped inside besieged Grozny; along with tens of thousands of other refugees, she had fled to neighboring Ingushetia.

With Russian troops establishing themselves in the capital, and the Russian bombing and shelling apparently over, she had thought it safe to go back and check on her house. Paul Wood’s report briefly recounts her ordeal:

"They said it was a liberated area," she said, frail and thin, clutching her hospital sheet to her chin, telling us that when she got to her street, she and two other Chechen women saw Russian soldiers loading stolen goods from the houses into one of their armoured vehicles.

"They took us to the armoured vehicle and they said to go inside. We were afraid as they put blindfolds on us. We said, ‘Why, we are not criminals, we have just come to see our houses.’ They said it was orders.

"They said they would take us to the police headquarters, but they just took us around the corner. It was just ruins all around. Me and my neighbour were clutching each other’s hand. We said: ‘Why are you taking us here, there are no police here.’ They said: ‘Just wait, they will come.’

"The other woman said, ‘Take whatever you want, we have children, just don’t kill us.’ They made us go into one little room. They just shot her in the head. She didn’t even have time to say, ‘Let me go.’ They just shot her. Hedi said that the Russian soldiers were tugging at the gold ring on her finger.

"It slipped off just as they decided to get a knife to sever her finger and the ring along with it. They also took her ear-rings and her money, 400 roubles, about £8.

"Then they put an old mattress over her body, poured petrol on, and lit it. The mattress was wet and did not catch light, only smouldered as they walked away. If I cried they would have killed me," she said.

"They said it was a liberated area"? Where did Hedi Makhauri and many others less fortunate than her get such calamitous disinformation? Why, from no less an authority than Vladimir Putin, then the acting president of Russia. Mr. Putin appeared on Russian national television on Sunday, February 6, 2000, to announce that the last stronghold of the Chechen "terrorists" in Grozny had been taken and the Russian flag had been hoisted over the smoldering ruins of the capital. "Thus, we can say that the operation to liberate Grozny is over," declared Putin.

The seven-year campaign of genocide against Chechnya has been largely invisible to the outside world. The Russian armed forces and security services have successfully kept most of the Western media and humanitarian-aid organizations out, while, at the same time, preventing refugees from escaping with eye-witness details of the brutal subjugation. "Let us call it by its real name," wrote Boston Globe columnist Jeff Jacoby on October 28, 1999. "What Russia is committing in Chechnya is the mass murder of civilians.... And not only is the West failing to rise up against his [Putin’s] bloodbath, it is actively helping to finance it," directly through U.S. foreign aid to the Russian government, as well as indirectly via the U.S. taxpayer-funded International Monetary Fund.

Convergence Choir

Tragically, far too few of Mr. Jacoby’s colleagues in the Western media have shared his outrage over the ongoing slaughter in Chechnya; the coverage of Putin’s campaign of terror against Chechen civilians has been sporadic and the condemnations tepid. Since the September 11th terrorist attacks, criticism of the Chechen pogrom has all but evaporated, as the Bush administration has rushed to embrace Russia as our valued "ally" in the war on terrorism.

New York Times correspondent Bill Keller typified this response in an October 6th article, in which he stated: "We need the Russians now, as we needed Stalin once, and if that means our president pulls a punch on the subject of the indiscriminate civil carnage in Chechnya, I can live with that; the punch had no muscle behind it anyway." Mr. Keller and other pragmatists of his ilk can apparently "live with" patently immoral policies like genocide, turning a blind eye to the unpleasant bloodletting as long as the perpetrator advances the globalist agenda of East-West convergence.

On November 23rd, the Times offered an even more startling re-evaluation of Russia as NATO’s new partner in the war on terrorism. Aleksandr Rahr, a scholar at the German Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) in Berlin, told the Times: "What changed radically on September 11th was the complete disappearance of Russia as a threat to Europe. It’s completely gone." The German CFR is a sister to the American CFR, this country’s "ruling establishment," and Mr. Rahr was trilling the same convergence theme as his U.S. counterparts. Mr. Rahr, along with other European and American CFR one-worlders, advocates a full, lusty embrace of Russia against our new common enemy.

One of the most enthusiastic advocates of this policy of NATO-Russia embrace is none other than Lord Robertson, the current NATO chief. "We sense very strong indications from President Putin in recent weeks that he wants to change the way that Russia does business," the November 23rd New York Times quoted Robertson as saying. "We take that at face value and we will work on that basis," he continued. "The Russian response to the terrible attacks on the United States," he said, "has … been the reaction of a real and genuine friend." "In the past," said Robertson, "we were divided by walls and fences and by ideology and by armies. Today the threats to the Russian people are very similar, if not exactly the same as, the threats to the people in the NATO countries and the West."

Does Lord Robertson, the head of the West’s military alliance, truly buy the Kremlin line that the pounding of Chechen cities and villages into rubble, the rampant slaughter of civilians, and the driving of hundreds of thousands of refugees into camps, neighboring provinces, and foreign exile are the same as fighting terrorists who carry out acts like the 9-11 Black Tuesday attack? Whether or not he truly believes it, Robertson is definitely retailing that line with a passion. "To utter such nonsense, a top Western official has to be either a closet Communist or one of Lenin’s ‘useful idiots,’" says Christopher Story, editor and publisher of the authoritative London-based Soviet Analyst.

One of the most reliable analysts of Russian affairs and a keen observer of British power politics, Mr. Story clearly believes Robertson to be of the former category. "Look, Robertson was well known in Britain as a former Communist trade union agitator when Tony Blair picked him to be secretary of state for defense," Story told The New American. "Blair is to the left of Clinton and has been clear over in the Kremlin camp all along. The September 11th attacks have given him the opportunity to advance his pro-Moscow agenda while appearing to be pro-military, pro-American, and anti-terrorist." Story points out that when a member of parliament queried the British Fabian Socialist Society concerning charges that certain members of the Blair cabinet were members of the socialist group, the secretary of the Fabian Society publicly confirmed that 20 of Blair’s 23 cabinet officials were indeed members in good standing with the organization. For over a century, notes Story, the Fabians have played a crucial role in implementing Marxist-Leninist policies in the British Commonwealth.

"Lord Robertson the former Communist is quite obviously a continuing covert Communist who is enthusiastically implementing the continuing Soviet strategy against the West — from the highest office in NATO, no less," warns Story. "What makes this even more troubling is that Robertson was appointed NATO secretary-general following Javier Solana, a ‘former’ Spanish Communist, who shared the same love affair with Moscow. Solana has now been transferred to a key position within the European Commission of the EU [European Union], where he and his fellow radicals are working in concert with Robertson, Blair, Germany’s Joschka Fischer, Italy’s Romano Prodi, and other subversives to convert NATO and the EU completely into an oppressive Soviet collective."

The Russians have always been master chess players, reminds Story, and they have been playing the terrorist gambit very successfully. "If the people of the West do not wake up soon to this fact, we will soon be in checkmate," he warns.

Covert Strategy, Deadly Deception

The Russian war against Chechnya is, of course, central to the current U.S.-Russian embrace as allies in the war against terrorism. For the Russians and their CFR apologists in the U.S., it provides an important test of the American public’s gullibility: Can the slaughter in Chechnya credibly be equated to our current war against Osama bin Laden? After all, as the CFR’s Mr. Rahr claims, the Russian threat is "completely gone," and we’re both fighting against Islamic extremists, right? Or as Lord Robertson put it, we both face "very similar, if not exactly the same" threats.

The chess pieces were being positioned to produce American acceptance of this preposterous notion long before the suicide attacks of September 11, 2001. In December 1994, Boris Yeltsin ordered Russian troops, tanks, and air power into Chechnya to fight what he claimed were "terrorists" and "bandits." Soon the term "Islamic extremist" was also being applied to the Chechen opponents. For months the Russian army appeared pathetically inept, demoralized, barbaric, and incapable of subduing the Chechens. However, after grinding much of Chechnya under its tank tracks and killing 100,000 civilians, the Yeltsin regime negotiated an accord to withdraw Russian forces, while negotiations would continue toward a settlement of Chechnya’s status by the end of 2001.

The most penetrating (and what has also proven the most prophetic) analysis of the 1994-96 Russian-Chechnyan War was written in February 1995 as a memo from Soviet defector Anatoliy Golitsyn to CIA Acting Director William O. Studeman. Published in the 1995 edition of Golitsyn’s book The Perestroika Deception, the memo marshaled important evidence and observations supporting the contention that the Chechnyan War was being "deliberately staged largely for Western consumption by the Kremlin strategists in the pursuit of their objectives."

What hidden objectives could the Kremlin strategists advance by a controlled operation that showed the Russian military performing so poorly and the Russian military leaders quarreling amongst themselves? Mr. Golitsyn, himself a former elite KGB operative amongst the Kremlin strategists, listed many important objectives, including:

• The Russian military bungling was intended to "demonstrate that it can be discounted as a serious military adversary for the foreseeable future."

• This message was "intended to influence US Congressional debate on the subject of Russia’s military potential and the size of US forces required to maintain a balance with it."

• The message could "also be used as a pretext for deepening the partnership between the US and Russian armed forces by seeking American advice and help in ‘reforming,’ reorganizing and retraining the Russian army in order to enable it to serve a ‘democratic’ system."

• The Chechnyan events also "enabled the Russians to play especially on European fears of destabilization in Russia" and "injected a further boost to the European desire for partnership with the ‘democratic forces’ in Russia."

• This partnership would lead to "entry into European institutions" and then "East European and eventually Russian involvement in NATO."

As usual, Mr. Golitsyn’s cogent analysis has proven prescient as well; all of the above objectives, and others he mentioned, have been advanced on the Russian chessboard — to a frightful degree. And, as usual, Golitsyn’s warnings and analyses have been ignored and supressed by the CFR insiders dominating U.S. policy-making positions, Establishment think tanks, and the press. (See the sidebar.)

Russia’s New Front Man

Mr. Golitsyn suggested that the Chechnyan "crisis" might be "a possible planned prelude to a change of government," replacing the spent Yeltsin team with a new set of rotating faces. "Since an outright military or nationalist government [in Russia] might prejudice the flow of Western aid and the continued ‘cooperation’ with the West which furthers the strategists’ interests," he said, it is likely that the Kremlin strategists wielding the real power behind the scenes would replace Yeltsin with a team comprised of a tough new president and a "reformist" prime minister. "The President would be presented as a guarantee of Russian stability while the Prime Minister’s task would be to ensure the continued flow of Western aid and the continuation of cooperative operations."

Enter Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin, the Russian "hero" of the Chechnyan pogrom. President Putin, the current player sitting in the Kremlin’s big chair, may seem in charge of moving the Russian pieces around the board, says Christopher Story, but he is merely the current front man for the covert Communist leadership collective that has continued to rule Russia since the Soviet Union’s supposed collapse. Mr. Story is perhaps the world’s leading proponent of Golitsyn’s thesis that the "Soviet collapse" was a controlled deception, planned many years in advance, for long-range strategic purposes.

Mr. Story, whose publications have closely tracked developments in Chechnya as well as the rise of Putin’s star, derides the government and media experts for falling all over themselves to come up with explanations for Putin’s meteoric rise. "Vladimir Putin has been a lifelong Communist and asset of Soviet intelligence," first of the KGB, and then of the GRU, Soviet military intelligence, he told The New American. "And the Chechnyan ‘crisis’ that raised him to the national and world stages has been completely an operation of the successor Russian intelligence services. If you follow the Russian-Chechnyan events and Putin’s career it’s very clear that he was hand-picked by the Kremlin strategists for his current role."

Shooting Putin to prominence was a spectacular string of 1999 apartment bombings in Moscow and other Russian cities that left hundreds dead. Yeltsin had appointed Putin prime minister, after serving a stint as head of the FSB, the current acronym for the KGB. Putin then strode on the scene vowing to bring the terrorists to justice. He quickly identified the perpetrators as Islamic extremists from Chechnya and soon launched a new massive invasion reducing Grozny to ashes and corpses. Heralded by the KGB/FSB-directed government organs and media as the strong man who had redeemed Russia’s honor from the ignominy of the 1994-1996 Chechnyan War and ended the terror bombings, Putin was elected "president" in March 2000.

USA Today reported on March 27, 2000 that Putin’s win "capped an incredible rise to power by a man who had never before stood for election." The Los Angeles Times reported that prior to his victory over the Chechens, "few thought the mousy, soft-spoken former spy could convince a majority of voters to elect him president."

Christopher Story has pointed out that Putin was able to solve the terrorist bombings "because they were very simply provocations perpetrated by covert Soviet intelligence operatives to provide Moscow with a pretext for an official re-entry into Chechnya. I say ‘official’ because Russia never really relinquished control when it supposedly left in 1996." Other analysts, investigators, and reporters around the world have reached some of the same conclusions. Many major mainstream media organs have acknowledged that the Putin regime has produced no evidence substantiating that Chechens were behind the Moscow bombings. Moreover, it has been fairly widely reported that strong evidence indicates that the FSB actually perpetrated the bombings. Many news groups have reported that after the fourth major bombing in September 1999, local police foiled a fifth bombing when they arrested terrorists planting explosives in another apartment complex. The terrorists turned out to be FSB agents.

According to Soviet Analyst, the Russians did not merely seize an opportunity (the 9-11 attacks) that happened to coincide with their long-range objectives; Putin and associates actually planned and carried out the terrorist deed using assets connected to bin Laden in Chechnya. The publication, which, like Anatoliy Golitsyn, can boast an uncanny accuracy on major Russian developments unmatched by the media-anointed Russian experts, has pointed out a number of important facts that support this theory. Among them:

• Land-locked Chechnya has long been one of the most completely controlled areas of the former Soviet Union, surrounded by Russia and Georgia, run by the faithful Communist Edward Shevardnadze. It is thus one of the safest venues to carry out a false Islamic revolt.

• The huge Soviet strategic military base and air base at Mozdok near Ingushetia has been using Chechnya as a "live warfare" laboratory and training ground, preparing for further strategic warfare in the region.

• The Chechen opposition has been completely controlled and compromised with false leadership, notably, with the likes of Djokhar Dudayev, a former Soviet air force general, accepted by Moscow as the representative voice of Chechen independence.

• The Russian armed forces and security services repeatedly released their controlled Chechen opposition, or allowed them to escape, to carry out repeated provocations.

• During the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan, an estimated 50,000 young Afghan males were removed from Afghanistan and transferred to terrorist training camps in Chechnya, Tajikistan, and elsewhere — to be filtered back in subsequent years as fighters in the ranks of the Taliban, al-Qaeda, and the Northern Alliance.

• Utilizing its client regimes in Iran, Sudan, Iraq, and elsewhere in the Middle East, Russia has supported the "Islamic" terror network while making it appear that it is itself under assault from "Muslim extremists."

As usual, says Christopher Story, the Communist strategists in Moscow have used the "principle of reversal," lying audaciously about the true situation in Chechnya. "Putin’s claims that Russia is under attack from bin Laden’s forces, just like the U.S., is a complete reversal of the truth," he says. In reality, he notes, "the evidence is far more persuasive that his al-Qaeda contacts in Chechnya and neighboring areas have been used to coordinate provocations that will provide the image of a common enemy." If this analysis is correct, and it appears to be, then the United States and the West have embraced as allies in the war on terrorism the engineers and perpetrators of the global terror offensive.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Predictions of an Ex-KGB Agent by William F. Jasper

Soviet defector Anatoliy Golitsyn predicted the rise of a false Soviet reformer like Gorbachev, the removal of the Berlin Wall, the unification of Germany, and the restructuring of NATO.

In 1961, in a dramatic escape under cover of a blinding snow storm, a major in the Soviet KGB defected to the United States. He was no ordinary KGB agent; he was an elite officer working within the "inner KGB" — a super-secret strategic planning department that plotted long-term Soviet strategy against the West. He is probably the most important Soviet defector ever to have reached the West. His name is Anatoliy Golitsyn.

Golitsyn warned that KGB moles had penetrated the CIA and virtually all other Western intelligence services and that many defectors were actually double agents feeding strategic disinformation to the West. For more than four decades, Golitsyn has been providing methodical analysis of developments in the Soviet Union and of Russian initiatives and operations throughout the world that has proven uniquely accurate. He has been explaining patiently that the Communist strategists who ran the Soviet Union continue to run Russia today. Following Leninist strategic principles, they are engaged in a deadly long-term war against the West. Foremost among their objectives is to convince Western leaders that Soviet Communism has collapsed and represents no further threat to the world.

Golitsyn’s amazingly prophetic book, New Lies for Old, was published in 1984. His main predictions included details of the forthcoming false liberalization of the whole of Eastern Europe, followed by similar developments in the Soviet Union. He predicted the rise of a false Soviet reformer like Gorbachev, the removal of the Berlin Wall, the unification of Germany, and the restructuring (if not abolition) of NATO. He even went so far as to specify that a "Break with the Past" process would start in East Germany, with the opening of its borders — as it turned out, to neighboring Communist countries. That was very remarkable: Golitsyn knew that the process would start in East Germany, and it did.

Author Mark Riebling, in his important 1994 book entitled Wedge: The Secret War between the FBI and CIA, conducted a careful analysis of Golitsyn’s predictions in New Lies for Old. He found that out of a total of 148 predictions, 139 had been verified by 1993 — "an accuracy rating of 94%." No other Soviet expert even comes close. Golitsyn’s 1995 book, The Perestroika Deception, continuing in the same tradition, offers unparalleled information and insight. Our leaders continue ignoring his proven wisdom to our own great peril.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Russia
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To: Destro

You post Novak's opinion of what Bush is doing, and I posted a direct quote from Bush which contradicts Novak's opinion of what Bush thinks...Novak isn't a communist, he's simply wrong.


461 posted on 09/23/2004 6:00:24 AM PDT by Luis Gonzalez ( Even Jane Fonda apologized. Will you, John?)
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To: Fatalis
In other words, they're both evil, and some people in here are defending evil.

By the way, if Muslims are evil because they murder children, what have you to say about the million unborn we murder yearly, sacrificed to the God of "reproductive choice"?

If the murder of children is the measure of evil, we are unspeakable monsters in the US.

462 posted on 09/23/2004 6:03:08 AM PDT by Luis Gonzalez ( Even Jane Fonda apologized. Will you, John?)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Best let the Guardian, CNN, and Pravda that their reporting is screwy here!

Ahh Louis, I take it back, it's not Neocons or Wahhibies, it must be socialists since all three papers/news sites you quote are left of left. How about: Star, Fox, Russia Journal? There, 3 right wing papers for a right form. If what you quote is lefters to defend yourself, you have no foundation to stand on. Not here, but DU Underground would love you. They all worship those 3 whores of communism. There you would find common, surrender monkey to terror ground. Have fun and send a post card.

463 posted on 09/23/2004 6:04:23 AM PDT by jb6 (Truth = Christ)
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To: jb6
Reading challenged, aren't you?

My quote pertains to the reporting of the presence of tanks in the battle...it was reported by PRO-PUTIN PUBLICATIONS.

Putin is left of left, he's a communist, and his own State-controlled publication, Pravda, reported the tanks at the school.

DU supports Putin, as you support Putin.

464 posted on 09/23/2004 6:12:42 AM PDT by Luis Gonzalez ( Even Jane Fonda apologized. Will you, John?)
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To: quant5
The CURRENT facts are revealing that Russia is going back towards Communism and Socialism at best.

Please define communism and socialism and then show how Putin's actions are taking Russia into that direction. Please define republicanism vs autocracy and capitalism. So many freepers throw around terms without any connetation to their meaning. You do realize that an autocratic state is not a communist state. You do realize that capitalism can live just fine in an autocratic state? Do you have any CURRENT facts on the economic changes of the past 5 years (now that the friends of Gore that the Neocons so love are gone) that have taken place?

465 posted on 09/23/2004 6:14:13 AM PDT by jb6 (Truth = Christ)
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To: jb6
You questioned my mentioning the tanks because you didn't see them on TV, did you not?

Well, I provided proof of their presence from Putin's own State-controlled paper as well as other strong pro-Putin publications...they support him because he's a communist and they're leftists, and they reported the presence of the tanks.

Keep up with the argument, or go stand on the sidelines with the amateurs.

466 posted on 09/23/2004 6:17:28 AM PDT by Luis Gonzalez ( Even Jane Fonda apologized. Will you, John?)
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To: Poohbah

Let's get Jeff in here, then you can tell him that he's a Islamicist shill to his face yourself, shall we?


467 posted on 09/23/2004 6:19:12 AM PDT by Luis Gonzalez ( Even Jane Fonda apologized. Will you, John?)
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To: Poohbah
"He got his info from CAIR and the WRMEA."

You've just quite possibly exposed this site to a slander and defamation of character suit from both Mr. Jacoby, and the Boston Globe.

I think that you either have to provide proof of your accusation or retract the statement.

468 posted on 09/23/2004 6:22:25 AM PDT by Luis Gonzalez ( Even Jane Fonda apologized. Will you, John?)
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To: jb6

"You do realize that an autocratic state is not a communist state. You do realize that capitalism can live just fine in an autocratic state? Do you have any CURRENT facts on the economic changes of the past 5 years (now that the friends of Gore that the Neocons so love are gone) that have taken place?"

This sounds like Carville "It's the ECONOMY stupid"....

Big problem it is not about "capitalism vs. communism".

The base definition of what "communism" really means and the exact opposite is what gets called "capitalism".

Words mean things and part of the problem is the perversion of the meaning of words.... I can say this cause I know what is commonly taught in elementary school about "communism" vs. "capitalism" and it is a complete distortion.


469 posted on 09/23/2004 6:24:07 AM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: quant5
Putin armed the middle eastern terrorists, yes.

Which groups and with what? Backed up facts please.

470 posted on 09/23/2004 6:26:38 AM PDT by jb6 (Truth = Christ)
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To: jb6
"I guess you missed the various elections with US and EU and UN observers all saying the people voted freely."

One correction..."...the people voted freely...", past tense.

Putin just suspended elections for governors in Russia, is appointing members to the Duma along Party lines, and is looking for ways to remain in power past his term, against the Russian Constitution, and without having to be re-elected.

It's not that I'm a liar, it's that you're sadly misinformed.

471 posted on 09/23/2004 6:27:03 AM PDT by Luis Gonzalez ( Even Jane Fonda apologized. Will you, John?)
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To: GIJoel
But more chillingly, Shifrin has recently discovered that the "former" Soviet Union under Boris Yeltsin is rapidly building many new camps throughout the country, in addition to the thousands of ongoing camps. These still-empty camps could serve to hold vast numbers of Western Europeans once the Red Army moves into Germany, Italy, France, and England.

Which Red Army? The one surrounded by NATO in Europe, Central Asia and Caucusis? US spends more on defense then the rest of the world combined. We've hit more countries in the past 10 years then anyone else and are in 120+ countries and you are paranoid of the Red Army? Wow, talk about delusions.

472 posted on 09/23/2004 6:29:05 AM PDT by jb6 (Truth = Christ)
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To: quant5

People fail to understand one very basic notion...totalitarianism arising in Russia as a pretext to fighting Islamic terrorists does not give us an ally in the War on Terror...it adds an enemy.


473 posted on 09/23/2004 6:29:43 AM PDT by Luis Gonzalez ( Even Jane Fonda apologized. Will you, John?)
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To: GIJoel
90% of people, who spreads anti-Polish propaganda are:
A Germans
B Jews
C Russians

You are A, B or C ?
474 posted on 09/23/2004 6:31:29 AM PDT by Grzegorz 246
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To: ApesForEvolution; ninenot; sittnick; steve50; Hegemony Cricket; Willie Green; Wolfie; ex-snook; ...
Pooty in Russia has centralized (or did he ever really decentralize?) and consolidated all power away from representative-leaning democracy now, after this horrible, senseless tragedy of satan's spawn in Beslan. His power grab, in my mind, rivals that of Abe Lincoln's during the War between the States here in America...

In a sense it can be true - Lincoln centralized power in order to make USA a stronger, united nation. Same thing was done by De Gaulle when he created the Fifth Republic.

The democratic system which emerged in Russia after the breakup of Soviet Union was chaotic and organized in a haphazard way. First few years were filled with spontaneous grass-root activities what was terminated by the Yeltsin massacre of the Parliament at the request of his Western sponsors.

After that the economical reforms were pushed against wishes of the population - the national assetts were distributed among organized crime, corrupt officials and Western "investors". This was proclaimed by the Western corporate media as the triumph of democracy because it enabled Yugoslavia style breakup and looting of Russia.

The NATO war on Serbia followed by Islamic invasion of Dagestan was a wake up call for Russians. Present leadership is RESTORING democracy following more solid and better adjusted strong presidential model similar to the De Gaulle design of the Fifth Republic.

Those who think that more decentralisation/directness is always better for democracy (BTW, in many democratic countries local executives are appointed by the central government, even without approval of local legislature as Putin's plan intends) do not understand the basic principles of republican system.

The ideal according to the radical decentralists would be a DIRECT democracy like in ancient Athens. Such system is possible ONLY in the very small society, (even in Athens only a minority of the men was allowed or able to vote on all issues). In a large country the large degree of delegated representation and centralisation is being forced by the necessities of political life. In multiethnic countries with local conflicts the strong central government is a must.

You can have centralised government with democracy and rule of law on one hand, and you can have corrupt local governments with local bullies and not much freedom.

Russia has to find her own way - foreign "friends" and advisors will follow foreign interests only as they did during "privatization" after Yeltsin "democratic" massacre of Duma.

475 posted on 09/23/2004 6:32:06 AM PDT by A. Pole (Madeleine Albright:"We are the indispensable nation. We stand tall. We see further into the future.")
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To: jb6
"Which Red Army? The one surrounded by NATO in Europe, Central Asia and Caucusis? US spends more on defense then the rest of the world combined. We've hit more countries in the past 10 years then anyone else and are in 120+ countries and you are paranoid of the Red Army? Wow, talk about delusions."

You are worried about NATO? You live in this country, then thank the LORD we still spend on defense else we would be no better than Russia.

Those countries we have "hit" in the past 10 years could you please name them and their standing today.

Where have we built walls to keep people in, "IF" this nation is so evil then why is the one place upon this earth that everybody wants to come here, especially terrorists?


The one thing that separates this nation from alllll others and the liberals are .ell bent on removing is "RIGHTS given by the CREATOR no man/government can take.

From its founding this nation recognized the CREATOR and since that day liberal/communists have made it their life's work to removed that and take for themselves the "RIGHT" to give and take rights. Under communism the motto is "we are gods".
476 posted on 09/23/2004 6:38:45 AM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: GIJoel
Most honest people who are confronted new and startling information look into the matter before opening their mouth and inserting foot

Problem is: what you confront most people with is not new or startling but disproven conspiratorial junk. Do you still await the Russian/Soviet/Uliminati/Alien invasion on Y2K or is it now Y2K+10?

477 posted on 09/23/2004 6:43:47 AM PDT by jb6 (Truth = Christ)
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To: Askel5; Libertina; SJackson; dennisw
and even are unapologetic about bulldozing stupid young American women too stupid to leave the Palestinians to their plight.

Just FYI I live about 1/2 north of Rachel Corrie land. You don't know anything about these people. To dismiss her as a stupid young woman who thought she was helping out is to show your own ignorance.

I don't know where you live, but here in the Pacific Northwest, people like Rachel Corrie and her ilk are exactly the communists you and your friends keep looking for in all the wrong places.

It's the ultimate sadness in this group of yours, that the real enemy is probably here beneath your own noses and you think you have to go overseas and accuse a high-profile president and his bumbling secret service agents.

Financing HAMAS is not an overseas operation.

478 posted on 09/23/2004 6:50:19 AM PDT by MarMema (next year in constantinople!)
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To: A. Pole
Present leadership is RESTORING democracy following more solid and better adjusted strong presidential model similar to the De Gaulle design of the Fifth Republic.

And following in the foorsteps of Italy, who also chose strong centralization and appointment of regional leaders to fight corruption and mafia.

479 posted on 09/23/2004 6:54:33 AM PDT by MarMema (next year in constantinople!)
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To: MarMema
I don't know where you live, but here in the Pacific Northwest, people like Rachel Corrie and her ilk are exactly the communists you and your friends keep looking for in all the wrong places.

You mean she wasn't Jewish? A non-Jewish liberal, I'm shocked.

480 posted on 09/23/2004 7:05:54 AM PDT by SJackson (Wars are caused by undefended wealth, Gen Douglas MacArthur)
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