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Vanity: Islam is the Enemy
Personal opinion | September 21, 2004 | Donald J. Taylor

Posted on 09/21/2004 1:12:34 PM PDT by DJ Taylor

When our Liberal-Left news media tell us Islam is the "Religion of Peace," and we are only threatened by a few fundamentalist Muslims, they are either attempting to mislead the American people or they are trying to appease our enemies, and it is not too difficult to determine which it is. What they could say, but do not dare, is that there are over 1.5 billion Muslims in the world and all of them can be divided into two categories, fundamentalist Muslims and moderate Muslims. A fundamentalist Muslim believes his God demands that he must either kill or convert the Infidel, and he is actively striving to obey his God. A moderate Muslim believes his God demands that he must either kill or convert the Infidel, and he has not yet had either the means or opportunity to obey his God.

Any person who would have you believe that a moderate Muslim is no different than a Catholic, Protestant, or a Buddhist has either never conducted any research into the creation and history of the Islamic faith, or he is simply trying to mislead you. Anyone knowledgeable in the basic tenets of Islam knows that it is not just a religion but an all encompassing and all controlling way of life as was Stalinist Communism. The only difference being that Stalin ruled under the threat of death, and Islam rules under the threat of death and eternal damnation.

There is no half measure in Islam. For a Muslim, the Koran is either followed to the letter or the violator is condemned to hell. There is no law but God's law, and if given a choice, a Muslim must select a government (Caliphate) ruled by the Mullahs of his faith and follow the laws (Suras) of the Koran. According to their Koran, it is the divinely ordained duty of all Muslims to fight until manmade law has been replaced by God's law, the Sharia, and Islamic law has conquered the entire world. Recent events have made it clear that Muslim immigrants do not come to this country to become Americans, follow our laws, and enjoy the freedoms our Constitution guarantees but only come to spread Islam as required of them by their Koran.

The Koran was written between the sixth and thirteenth century AD and has changed little since then. It has effectively kept its followers locked in the dark ages and now it threatens to pull the world into its abyss. Ironically, it is we who have given them the means for our own destruction through our generous payment for their oil. Instead of using this largess to pull themselves out of the dark ages, they are using it in an attempt to pull us in with them. The goal of Islamic Jihad is nothing short of the total destruction of Western Civilization.

How does a country defend its self from such a threat? Defend is the wrong term to use. The slogan "The best offense is a good defense" reflects a defeatist (read French) attitude that will only lead to the fall of a nation. There is no substitute for a good offense. When a nation is threatened, its leaders must identify the source of that threat and eliminate it. That is, after all, why we elect leaders and why we maintain our armed forces.

The threat that the United States and the civilized world now faces is Islam, but the source of this threat is Saudi Arabia and their almost unlimited financial resources. The Saudis have not only bankrolled this Islamic Jihad (holy war) that now threatens the civilized world, but they have also provided the bulk of its foot soldiers, leadership cadres and, of course, Osama bin Laden.

For over forty years, the Saudis have sent out their Fundamentalist Muslim missionaries to spread their Wahabbi sect of Islam throughout the Mid East. They have constructed and staffed countless Madrassas (boarding schools/orphanages) and have provided a free education to any male who wished to attend. These Saudi funded Madrassas currently provide their pupils with a basic education that otherwise could never be furnished by their families or by their government. In addition to a basic education, Saudi Madrassas indoctrinate their pupils in fundamentalist Islam and are also taught to hate the United States and Israel. It was from these Saudi Madrassas that all of the September 11 attackers came. But not for Saudi funding, these mad men would still be in their desert hovels, abusing their women, loving their livestock, and worshiping a God who has more in common with the Satan found in the Old Testament than he does with the Father of Jesus.

There are only three possible options in dealing with these people and diplomacy is not one of them.

1. The United States and our allies can enjoin the Muslims in their Holy War and endeavor to either kill or convert 1.5 billion Muslims.

2. The United States and our allies can seize the Saudi oil fields and freeze Saudi investments, thereby cutting off Saudi funding of Islamic terrorists.

3. The United States and our allies can do nothing, and let the situation play its self out.

The first two options will never happen. With half the U.S. population and half our government made up of “I won’t fight and you can’t make me” Liberal Democrats, no U.S. President could get congressional approval for such action. That leaves the United States, the most powerful nation in the world, impotent and unable to counter an aggressive, fanatical, well armed and well financed enemy that is determined to destroy us. Option three, to do nothing, is what we will inevitably do, and it has the potential of being the most catastrophic option of all.

Any clear thinking person can see what will in all probability happen; Muslim terrorists will eventually obtain, buy or steal one or more nuclear weapons. As soon as they have nuclear weapons in their possession, they will use them where they can do the most damage to the United States. One or more nuclear weapons, strategically placed and detonated, could cause the U.S. economy to collapse. If our economy collapses, our government could soon follow suit.

If our government collapses, who will seize control? It will not be an apologetic Liberal Left, but it will most likely be a revenge-crazed Right that takes control of our military and its nuclear arsenal. Very quickly, Mecca, Tehran, Riyadh and every Muslim capitol in the world could be reduced to radioactive craters. Once the bloodletting starts, who can say where it will end? Any nation that identifies its self as a possible threat to the U.S. will probably be eliminated. This could very well cause the collapse of Western Civilization and plunge the world into another Dark Age. This is such an apparent possibility that it may be why many countries now view the U.S. as a greater threat to their safety than they do Islamic terrorists. The world knows that Islamic terrorists will never be able to defeat the United States militarily, but they also know that these terrorists just might be able to awaken the beast within us, and if that ever happens, the world may be made to cringe in terror.

Muslim Jihadists may very well be successful in their attempt to destroy Western Civilization, but if and when that happens, Islam would surely have already been reduced to nothing but a dead religion practiced only in the depths of Hell.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: enemy; islam; muslim
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To: DJ Taylor

First.....I have nothing to do with the "hierarchy" here.

Second....Not a "veiled threat", just an observation based on previous posts.

Third.....I am speaking for myself. Let me repeat a previous post by E Rocc, "Fortunately, we have a President prudent enough not to declare a billion people to be our enemies simply because they share a religion with those who indeed are."

Regarding the dismissive "BS"'s..... Your 'Vanity' post included your opinions stated as facts. Those that I singled out, are just incorrect. No counter-point needed.

I am not usually so harsh with newbies, but your post struck me the wrong way.
Your take on wahhabis I pretty much agree with.


41 posted on 09/21/2004 8:24:41 PM PDT by nuconvert (Everyone has a photographic memory. Some don't have film.)
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To: DJ Taylor

There is no half measure in Islam. For a Muslim, the Koran is either followed to the letter or the violator is condemned to hell. There is no law but God's law, and if given a choice, a Muslim must select a government (Caliphate) ruled by the Mullahs of his faith and follow the laws (Suras) of the Koran.

I must admit It's been awhile since I read such broadbush drivel.
"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."
Martin Luther King Jr.


42 posted on 09/21/2004 8:54:14 PM PDT by Valin (I'll try being nicer if you'll try being smarter.)
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To: DJ Taylor

"It is easy to fly into a passion--anybody can do that--but to be angry with the right person and at the right time and with the right object and in the right way--that is not easy, and it is not everyone who can do it."
-- Aristotle

IRAQ THE MODEL
http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/

Removing the Caliphate.
There has been a considerable association between Islam and terrorism, which gave rise to an opinion that Islam is a religion that promotes violence and intolerance. Some people took it farther than that while others, more moderate, started to question (righteously) if there wasn’t something deeply wrong in Islam. The leaders of the coalition took every effort to show that this war is not against Islam and that they believe Islam is a peaceful religion. I, not only understand why some people doubt the truth in such announcements but I do have my doubts if they actually meant it, because it’s getting so difficult to believe that Islam is a peaceful religion for non Muslims, and the only thing that keep Muslims from having the same doubts is that...they are Muslims!

Some people are sure that it's Islam that need to be destroyed not just terrorist organizations, and Muslims should convert. Others think that Islam is capable of being reformed and that dictators and clergy are making this impossible, so we need to remove them or weaken their effect on their people to combat terrorism.

I’m a Muslim, but I truly do not want to defend Islam here. I just want to find some answers about the origin of terrorism and why it’s almost always limited to Muslims. It seems that almost all terrorists are Muslims, but not most Muslims are terrorists. Still we have to question, “why”? If we want to fight terrorism, we definitely need to understand the reasons that push people to extremism. This is extremely important now, as if we believe that it’s dictatorships and the allying clergy, and it appeared wasn’t, then we’ll be wasting lives, efforts and money in the wrong direction. While if we believed it’s Islam, and it appeared it was the dictators, then we’ll be risking a lot in fighting the wrong battle and making unnecessary enemies.

I’m not going to discuss the whole issue, as it takes more than what my time and brain can afford, but I want to focus on one difference between Islam and other religions that may have contributed to the fact that Muslims are more prone to become terrorists or extremist than others.

At least most religions were incorporated in one way or another to power and authority at a certain time, and in most case if not all, such power was abused by clerics and it took wars or strong conflicts to separate ‘church’ from the state each time. The difference with Islam is that it didn’t acquire power later as with Christianity for example. From the first beginning the state was founded on a religious base. The ruler was the leader regarding politics, daily life issues and spiritual affairs. The power was concentrated in one hand; the caliphate. Some Muslim thinkers tend to believe now that this was not only unnecessary, but it was wrong. Those are still minority of course.

Anyway, since the caliphate derived his power from religion, he had to make a strong alliance with the most known pious men in the nation, as there was still no clergy at that time. And when conflicts started among different men, all claiming the right to be the successor of the prophet Mohammed, their campaigns were naturally base on how religious or how close to the prophet they were. Each part gathered all the respected religious men they could. Men who knew Mohammed and spent some time in his company. These conflicts were very bitter and included bloody battles between Muslims in a short time after Mohammed’s death, and with such hard struggle, every candidate needed all the support he could get.

From that time Islam was politicalized and was corrupted but it was not very easy to notice that. Things went crazy and after some time principles didn’t matter, lives didn’t matter. All that mattered was to get to power and to be the caliphate. ‘Campaign managers’ started to dig in the Koran to find something that can support their boss or that can be used against his rival, and when they couldn’t find that in the Koran, they resorted to another effective method that was forbidden for some time after Mohammed’s death; quoting Mohammed.

That was a very dangerous development in the history of Islam. One of these clerics would go out to the people and say that what his boss did was the right thing because he heard Mohammed saying this or that, and since he accompanied Mohammed for some time people would believe him and all he had to do to make it ‘documented’ was to bring another man who would swear that he was there when it was said.

Things from that time on got much more complicated, but the main idea is that rulers with the help of clerics were able to change many things in Islam that did not fit them and come up with some new stuff too, and their main weapon was quoting Mohammed. When life started to look ugly for Muslims and poverty and injustice became too much to tolerate, the clerics had to come up with something that divert the attention of people from their misery (this was done by focusing on the other life) and convince them that these hardships are caused by an outside power not their government (infidels and their conspiracy against Islam). I believe through what I read about Muslim history that the strong belief in conspiracy theories and their prevalence date back that much.

But what should Muslims do about the “infidels' conspiracies”? Actually nothing. Jihad was limited to the caliphate to deal with. He was the only one who had the power to decide that “infidels” should be fought because they are “infidels”, or just avoid the issue totally when it’s not the right time. To understand this more one should acknowledge that the average Muslim believes that all non Muslims are heretics and should be taught Islam and if refuse they should pay a tax or it’s war. However this rule is not strict at all and most Muslims, although think it is what God said, they don’t think they should carry it out! This can be explained by the effect of the clerics. The She’at have the “Taqyia” and the Sunni had multiple similar legislation that make jihad similarly out of the question until the ‘caliphate’ or the “Mufti” decides. This was needed to keep things under control, as Jihad can turn out to have dangerous consequences on the rulers themselves.

But the question is still the same! Why would a religion provoke violence and demand submission from others!? Unless it’s not from God.

The answer to this ‘difficult’ question is to read the Koran and when did it authorize the use of power against non Muslims. The first verse that allowed Muslims to fight back the infidels in Mecca was this one:
“it’s permitted to those who were fought, to fight back because they were subjected to injustice” the verse was, first not an order but an authorization, second as a response to injustice carried against Muslims. You should not fight someone because you think he’s an inifel but you fight back when you are hurt or your rights get violated. This can be explained in another verse that clearly says, “ No one should be forced to change his belief. It’s become obvious what’s right and what’s wrong” It’s worth mentioning that the last verse is one of the last verses regarding dealing with non Muslims. Clerics resorted to quoting Mohammed to combat such verses. Of course they said they were explaining them to the average Muslim. You know, because they were written in Chinese.

There are of course some verses that deal with this issue a little bit differently, but the first authorization should’ve been generalized while the others should’ve been looked at as “special cases” related to time and circumstances, but the clerics and their sponsors had a different opinion. They told people that the words of Koran are eternal, holy and that they are the words of God written in heaven. How can you argue with such words, and you shouldn’t, because you’d be questioning the legitimacy of the caliphate himself! Now that should NEVER be allowed.

It may be new to some, but many Muslims questioned that at that time, and naturally they were tortured, oppressed and burned sometimes. Their name is the Moa’atazila and they are a group of thinkers and philosophers who thought that the Koran verses came as a response to particular events and that they were inspired to Mohammed and they were only important because our minds gave them such importance and because we believe in them, and thus the higher authority is for the human mind and not the script.

Unfortunately, this group was oppressed and when they finally got to power, they avenged their rivals in similar way and that was their greater mistake and what made their ideas disappear very rapidly. However nowadays there are many Muslim thinkers and writers who adapt a similar pattern of thinking to that of the Moa’atazilla and they are oppressed too. They look at the words of Koran as a beginning not a limit. They are just broad lines that we can start from without fear and without restrictions, and they believe so also because the most frequent command in the Koran is, “THINK”; think and look around you and question everything.

I believe that these thinkers are the hope to reform Islam, to save it and get it back from the hands of those evil and ignorant Mullahs and clerics. Such pattern of thinking can open all closed gates between Muslims and the rest of the world. We really believe that all religions are one and that they all come from the same source, so why fight and why quarrel? And I don’t mean this in the same superficial way we always hear from clerics who just want to sound moderate. It’s that we can, and should, have our own ways in praying and communicating with our creator and it’s not anyone else’s business.

But how are we going to reform Islam if we can’t guarantee some minimum level of safety for thinkers? How are we going to do this without freedom of speech?
I’m not talking about the danger from a conservative society, as I believe that you can communicate with people and present new ideas in tactful ways without a very serious risk, but I’m talking about the danger that comes from dictators who do not want anyone to think for himself and come up with some new ideas that may disrupt the ‘peace’ they worked so hard to create in their kingdoms. We need to at least remove these tyrants before any reform could be even possible. They won’t accept any change in the curriculum, for instance, that would endanger their positions, and the changes we think about definitely will do that. We have all seen their reaction to the change in Iraq; how terrified they are and how desperately they try to stop the change in Iraq. That should give us an idea of how they are going to deal with it in their own lands.

-By Ali.


43 posted on 09/21/2004 9:01:32 PM PDT by Valin (I'll try being nicer if you'll try being smarter.)
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To: bobo1

If this is indeed a religious war as you claim...why are Muslims killing Muslims faster than they are killing us?


44 posted on 09/21/2004 9:06:59 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez ( Even Jane Fonda apologized. Will you, John?)
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To: DJ Taylor
"You take points that I have made in my writing and simply dismiss them as BS"

The point is that your "points" have been debated ad nauseum in FR prior to your arrival; no insult intended, but there was absolutely nothing new or revealing in your vanity.

45 posted on 09/21/2004 9:09:52 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez ( Even Jane Fonda apologized. Will you, John?)
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To: Luis Gonzalez

Ah but of course you know the ones being killed aren't "real" muslims. As all real FReepers know all Muslims only live with one thing on their minds, kill kill kill.


46 posted on 09/21/2004 9:22:16 PM PDT by Valin (I'll try being nicer if you'll try being smarter.)
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To: DJ Taylor
With half the U.S. population and half our government made up of “I won’t fight and you can’t make me” Liberal Democrats, no U.S. President could get congressional approval for such action.

This is a self-correcting situation.

In the natural world a predator that will not defend itself soon becomes the prey of a more aggressive predator.

In this way the weak predators are weeded out, and the strong predators multiply and become even more aggressive.

47 posted on 09/21/2004 10:34:21 PM PDT by Noachian (Judicial legislation, being void of representation, is tyranny)
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To: Luis Gonzalez

As you say, I’m a newby on this site. I gave this site a try in the hopes of finding a little intellectual stimulation from people who would exchange ideas with me, debate issues, and offer different perspectives than mine, and I have found a few. However, this site seems to have an inordinate amount of what other sites refer to as Jackals and Hyenas; people who hang out on the periphery, offer no intelligent input, fling insults and just make a general nuisance of themselves.

I have found from previous experience that it is best to simply ignore carrion eaters; unless they get too close, and then you have to do what is necessary. So, in the future, I intend to ignore the carrion eaters, unless they get too close, or there gets to be too many of them. In which case, I guess I’ll just have to move camp.


48 posted on 09/21/2004 10:54:27 PM PDT by DJ Taylor
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To: DJ Taylor

Muslims are not free to leave or even question their faith. Fortunately there are some internet sites offering a bit of a "safe harbor" for Muslims who are troubled by their religion. These two are good, interesting, and quite informative:

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/SinaPrologue.htm

and...

http://www.apostatesofislam.com/

It couldn't hurt to somehow (anonymously) expose our Muslim neighbors/friends/enemies/aquaintances/merchants/co-workers to such sites. Help to eradicate the cancer.


49 posted on 09/21/2004 11:06:15 PM PDT by 1 spark
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To: DJ Taylor

Interesting article. You make some good points.

I think we'll see Jihad bring down the EU before we see nukes used against us.

Attention is focused on us right now, but that can change real quick. I'd be willing to bet that Sweden will be the first to fall, and probably within the next four years.


50 posted on 09/21/2004 11:16:28 PM PDT by mugs99 (Restore the Constitution)
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To: DJ Taylor
L8R



51 posted on 09/21/2004 11:39:56 PM PDT by Cacique (quos Deus vult perdere, prius dementat)
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To: Dataman

If "we" refers to Americans, (and I can't read the original post, so I'm just assuming the obvious) then the poster is right. It's pretty common knowledge that a significant number of people stolen from West Africa were Muslims. (So-called) Americans might not have been the FIRST to take away their freedom, but once in the US, they remained slaves.


52 posted on 09/22/2004 1:10:30 AM PDT by zimdog
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To: Valin

Once again, you've got it all wrong! All Muslims have 75 things on their mind: kill, kill, 72 virgins, kill.

/sarcasm


53 posted on 09/22/2004 1:18:19 AM PDT by zimdog
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To: Doomonyou
Option 4: Keep doing what we are doing, root the bastards out all over jihadistan and kill them. No one said it will be quick or easy, eventually, they may get the message.

How many have been rooted out in the past 3 years? It's not happening fast enough for me... or for Mrs. Armstong or Mrs. Hensley. Why can't something more definitive and sweeping be done?

54 posted on 09/22/2004 1:42:29 AM PDT by Mockingbird For Short ("God and George W. Bush, a Spiritual Life" by Paul Kengor--- a great read.)
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To: zimdog
If "we" refers to Americans, (and I can't read the original post, so I'm just assuming the obvious) then the poster is right. It's pretty common knowledge that a significant number of people stolen from West Africa were Muslims.

There were no Americans in the 16th and 17th centuries. The African slave traders were mostly Muslims. What you consider to be "pretty common knowledge" must be PC public school indoctrination, because it certainly isn't history. Jumping in to the debate without reading the "original post" is not helpful.

55 posted on 09/22/2004 6:00:54 AM PDT by Dataman
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To: Guillermo

Black Africans still to this day enslave other black Africans


56 posted on 09/22/2004 6:09:29 AM PDT by SQUID
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To: SQUID

Shhhh, don't be such a racist.


57 posted on 09/22/2004 6:11:15 AM PDT by Guillermo (It's the 99% of Mohammedans that make the other 1% look bad.)
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Comment #58 Removed by Moderator

To: DJ Taylor

BUMP.


59 posted on 09/22/2004 6:42:41 AM PDT by BayouCoyote (The 1st victim of islam is the person who practices it.)
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To: Valin

btt


60 posted on 09/22/2004 6:47:07 AM PDT by TASMANIANRED (What did Kerry know and when did he know it?)
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