Live Thread: CBS Evening News (Dan tells us why we're all wrong)

www.freerepublic.com | September 10, 2004

[Howlin]

Have at it.

******Transcript************

'KEY CHALLENGES TO NATIONAL GUARD DOCUMENTS ANSWERED'
Fri Sep 10 2004 19:03:11 ET

The biggest challenges to the authenticity of the documents featured in the 60 MINUTES segment on President Bush's Texas National Guard service are answered in a report to be broadcast on the CBS EVENING NEWS tonight (6:30-7:00 PM, ET/PT) on the CBS Television Network. The report states that the type style, typewriter and the superscript function critics claim did not exist at the time the memos from President Bush's former Texas National Guard commander were typed were indeed all available. In fact, similar raised "th" superscripts have been found on other National Guard documents the White House has released from the president's file.

Furthermore, Marcel Mately, the document and handwriting expert used to authenticate the documents for CBS News and 60 MINUTES, asserts that copies of the memos critics are examining have been degraded by reproduction though photocopying, computer scanning and faxing and are not reliable representations of the memos.

A transcript is attached:

BUSH DOCUMENTS

EVENING NEWS WITH DAN RATHER

9-10-04

Rather Lead In: There were attacks today on the CBS News "60 Minutes" report this week raising new questions about President Bush's Vietnam-era time in the Texas Air National Guard. The questions raised by our report include:

--Did a wealthy Texas oilman-friend of the Bush family use his influence with the speaker of the Texas House of Representatives .. to get George W. Bush a coveted slot in the National Guard .. keeping him out of the draft and any probable service IN Vietnam?

--Did Lieutenant Bush refuse a direct order from his commanding officer?

--Was Lieutenant. Bush suspended for failure to perform up to standards?

--Did Lieutenant Bush ever take a physical he was required and ordered to take? If not, why not?

--And did Lieutenant Bush, in fact, complete his commitment to the Guard?

These questions grew out of new witnesses and new evidence -- including documents written by Lieutenant Bush's squadron commander.

Today, on the internet and elsewhere, some people -- including many who are partisan political operatives -- concentrated not on the key questions the overall story raised but on the documents that were part of the support of the story.

They alleged the documents are FAKE.

Rather: MANY OF THOSE RAISING QUESTIONS ABOUT THE CBS DOCUMENTS HAVE FOCUSED ON SOMETHING CALLED SUPERSCRIPT... A KEY THAT AUTOMATICALLY TYPES A RAISED "TH". CRITICS CLAIM TYPEWRITERS DIDN'T HAVE THAT ABILITY IN THE 70S. BUT SOME MODELS DID....IN FACT, OTHER BUSH MILITARY RECORDS ALREADY OFFICIALLY RELEASED BY THE WHITE HOUSE ITSELF SHOW THE SAME SUPERSCRIPT.

HERE'S ONE..... FROM 1968.

SOME ANALYSTS OUTSIDE CBS SAY THEY BELIEVE THE TYPEFACE ON THESE MEMOS IS NEW TIMES ROMAN.... WHICH THEY CLAIM WAS NOT AVAILABLE IN THE 1970S.

BUT THE OWNER OF THE COMPANY THAT DISTRIBUTES THIS TYPING STYLE.... SAYS IT HAS BEEN AVAILABE SINCE 1931. DOCUMENT AND HANDWRITING EXAMINER MARCEL MATLEY ANALYZED THE DOCUMENTS FOR CBS NEWS.

HE SAYS HE BELIEVES THEY ARE REAL...BUT IS CONCERNED ABOUT EXACTLY WHAT IS BEING EXAMINED BY SOME OF THE PEOPLE QUESTIONING THE DOCUMENTS....BECAUSE DETIORATION OCCURS EACH TIME A DOCUMENT IS REPRODUCED.....AND THE DOCUMENTS BEING ANALYZED OUTSIDE OF CBS HAVEBEEN PHOTOCOPIED, FAXED, SCANNED AND DOWNLOADED.... AND ARE FAR REMOVED FROM THE DOCUMENTS CBS STARTED WITH WHICH WERE ALSO PHOTOCOPIES.

DOCUMENT AND HANDWRITING EXAMINER MARCEL MATLEY DID THIS INTERVIEW WITH US PRIOR TO THE 60 MINUTES BROADCAST.

HE LOOKED AT THE DOCUMENTS AND THE SIGNATURES OF COLONEL JERRY KILLIAN.... COMPARING KNOWN DOCUMENTS WITH THE COLONEL'S SIGNATURE ON THE NEWSLY DISCOVERED ONES.

Matley: "WE LOOK BASICALLY AT WHAT'S CALLED SIGNIFICANT OR INSIGNIFICANT FEATURES TO DETERMINE WHETHER IT'S THE SAME PERSON OR NOT. I HAVE NO PROBLEM IDENTIFYING THEM.

I WOULD SAY BASED ON OUR AVAILABLE HANDWRITING EVIDENCE, YES. THIS IS THE SAME PERSON."

Rather: MATLEY FINDS THE SIGNAT'URES TO BE SOME OF THE MOST COMPELLING EVIDENCE...WE TALKED TO HIM AGAIN TODAY BY SATELLITE.

Matley "SINCE IT IS REPRESENTED THAT SOME OF THEM ARE DEFINITELY HIS... THEN WE CAN CONCLUDE THEY ARE HIS SIGNATURES."

Rather: "ARE YOU SURPRISED THAT QUESTIONS COME ABOUT THESE. WE'RE NOT, BUT I WAS WONDERING IF YOU'RE SURPRISED."

Matley: "I KNEW GOING IN THAT THIS WAS DYNAMITE ONE WAY OR THE OTHER AND I KNEW THAT POTENTIALLY IT WAS FAR MORE POTENTIAL DAMAGE TO ME PROFESSIONALLY THAN BENEFIT ME. AND I KNEW THAT. BUT WE SEEK THE TRUTH. THAT'S WHAT WE DO. YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO PUT YOURSELF OUT. TO SEEK THE TRUTH AND TAKE WHAT COMES FROM IT."

Rather: ROBERT STRONG WAS AN ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICER FOR THE TEXAS AIR NATIONAL GUARD DURING THE VIETNAM YEARS. HE KNEW COL. JERRY KILLIAN, THE MAN CREDITED WITH WRITING THE DOCUMENTS.... AND PAPER WORK... LIKE THESE DOCUMENTS...WAS HIS SPECIALTY. HE IS STANDING BY HIS JUDGEMENT THAT THE DOCUMENTS ARE REAL.

Rather: "WHEN YOU READ THROUGH THESE DOCUMENTS, IS THERE ANY DOUBT IN YOUR MIND THAT THESE ARE GENUINE?"

Strong: "WELL,, THEY ARE COMPATIBLE WITH THE WAY BUSINESS WAS DONE AT THAT TIME. THEY ARE COMPATIBLE WITH THE MAN THAT I REMEMBER JERRY KILLIAN BEING. I DON'T SEE ANYTHING IN THE DOCUMENTS THAT'S DISCORDANT WITH WHAT WERE THE TIMES, WHAT WERE THE SITUATION OR WHAT WERE THE PEOPLE INVOLVED."

Rather: STRONG SAYS THE HIGHLY CHARGED POLITICAL ATMOSPHERE OF THE GUARD AT THE TIME... WAS PERFECTLY REPRESENTED IN THE NEW DOCUMENTS

Strong: "IT VERGED ON OUTRIGHT CORRUPTION IN TERMS OF THE FAVORS THAT WERE DONE, THE POWER THAT WAS TRADED. AND IT WAS UNCONSCIONABLE. FROM A MORAL AND ETHICAL STANDPOINT. IT WAS UNCONSCIONABLE."

Rather: IT IS THE INFORMATION IN THE NEW DOCUMENTS THAT IS MOST COMPELLING FOR PEOPLE FAMILIAR WITH PRESIDENT BUSH'S RECORD IN THE NATIONAL GUARD. AUTHOR JIM MORE HAS WRITTEN TWO BOOKS ON THE SUBJECT.

Rather: "YOU'VE STUDIED PRESIDENT BUSH'S RECORDS FOR 10 YEARS.. ARE THESE DOCUMENTS CONSISTENT WITH THE RECORD AS YOU KNOW IT?"

Moore: "THEY ARE ABSOLUTELY CONSISTENT WITH THE RECORDS AS I KNOW IT."

Rather: "PUT IT IN CONTEXT AND PERSPECTIVE FOR US ... THE STORY AND WHAT WE CALL THE COUNTERATTACK ON THE STORY. WHERE ARE WE RIGHT NOW?

Moore "I THINK WHAT HAS HAPPENED IS SOME INCRIMINATING DOCUMENTS HAVE COME OUT. THE WHITE HOUSE, YOU SHOULD REMEMBER, HAS NOT DISCREDITED THE DOCUMENTS. THEY'RE RELYING ON THE BLOGOSPHERE AND OTHER PEOPLE TO DO THAT. BECAUSE THE WHITE HOUSE PROBABLY KNOWS THESE DOCUMENTS ARE IN FACT REAL."

Rather Tag: The "60 Minutes" report was based NOT solely on the recovered documents .. but on a preponderance of evidence .. including documents that were provided by un-impeachable sources .. and interviews with former officials of the Texas National Guard. If any definitive evidence to the contrary of our story is found, we will report it.

So far, there is none.

[Marylander]

The is not the same Robert Strong

[cyncooper]

People won't forget what CBS was party to here.

Count on it.

[bert]

I think Dan's begging Pinch.....

Excellant thought and completely in aqccordance with Bernard Goldberg's description of Rather/CBS clique.

[PeoplesRepublicOfWashington]

Dan needs to be sent to pasture right away.

[Petronski]

I remember using a Mac Plus for newspaper layout in 1986, and I used their 'timesy' font a thousand times. It really BOTHERS me that I can't remember that name that I selected from the font menu a thousand billion times.

[shrinkermd]

You can find the discussion of "kerning" on the powerline blog which is www.powerline.com. Here is an excerpt of what he says:

"But these are minor points. Kos never addresses the smoking-gun issue of kerning. We discussed this extensively yesterday, but briefly, "kerning" is the ability of letters in word-processed documents to intrude on one another's space. If you type the word "my" in Word or any other word processing program, the tail of the "y" will curl slightly under the "m." This cannot be done on any typewriter, because a typewriter cannot know what the adjacent letter is. A letter on a typewriter must have its own space.

[Calpernia]

I'm still doing searches. They are sharing independent reporters, pdfs, and translations.

Sorry. The little message blurb vs. an official press release is very telling.

Even reverse propaganda can have truth.

I hold to their intentional mislead.

http://www.indymedia.org/en/2004/03/110687.shtml

Indymedia.org team in merger talks with CBS/Viacom
George Soros, CEO of Indymedia.org ltd has begun merger talks with the CBS/Viacom News Network to help bring together the Vibrant Staff of the Independant News Network with the resources and Global Consumer Reach of the CBS news network. This follows a meeting of the IMC Board of Directors and key Indymedia shareholders where it was decided that Indymedia needed to branch out from its traditional Liberal readership demographic to encompass more mainstream news interests and readerships....

[blteague]

BTW, I live in NC and can verify that it's 10 to 1 W stickers/posters over Skerry...we can't stand the Breck girl, either!

[cyncooper]

I see Gregory had time to add in CBS's pointing out the reduced "th" on another Bush record (does not explore the differences between the two documents in question) and now Allison Stewart eagerly reads the CBS statement.

Stewart misstates that anyone claimed certain technologies "didn't exist" and she points out they did as if that was ever the argument anyone made.

Like CBS, she ignores the question of whether such technology was at the fingertips of Killian.

What nonsense.

[Sonar5]

At the USA Today site, there are other memos from Killian in a totally different format since they are legitimate....

These are FORGERIES and CBS just got debunked yet again.....

[Marylander]

Thanks, but it turns out this is not the same Robert Strong. This guy has a statement: The CBS expert is not me. etc., etc.

[CedarDave]

That needs to be repeated and emphasized:

Times Roman has been available since 1931, but only in linotype printshops...until released with Apple MacIntosh in 1984 and Windows 3.1 in 1991.

And after a court battle, Windows was forced to change the name to its current one of "New Times Roman".

[MissAmericanPie]

"Handwriting Experts", are a joke, and for sale to the highest bidder. For every one that says the documents are real, you can hire forty to say they are not real.

Let's get an FBI hand writing expert to take a look. Blather says that particular TH ability was available in the 70's? Who made them, how many were in production, how many sold and to who. The military usually buys the same model from the same company. Was it a personal typewriter or did it belong to the Guard? Details are lacking here.

He seems to have left that, and alot of other information, out of his little speech. This story needs to be torn apart bit by bit.

[RipSawyer]

If there were a thirty year old original it probably would have an obvious aged look to it. There is no thirty year old original because these documents are obvious fakes and therefore CBS will do whatever is necessary to avoid producing the original which could easily be shown to be fake.

[doug from upland]

Dan Ra^ther.

[Congressman Billybob]

The first generation photocopiers were around in 1960. That summer I was chained to one of those in an advertising agency. It was a "wet" copier using harsh chemicals. The copies came out wet and had to be laid out singly to dry so they would not either smear or stick together.

The dry copiers which were electrostatic rather than chemical came out maybe four years later. From then to now its been refinements rather than quantum leaps in copiers, except for the jump to color copies.

Congressman Billybob

[Mitchell]

Yes, I vaguely remember the controversy over the Kurt Cobain suicide note.

Several years ago, I read an essay by Courtney Love on copyright issues in the music industry; this was back in the days of the original Napster. I don't recall the details, but I do remember thinking at the time that it was a surprisingly cogent essay, not at all what one would expect based on the typical news stories about her.

[Marylander]

This is not the same Robert Strong

[Matt32]

On the subject of photocopying, some questions are definitely raised by the May 4 1972 memo. Link here.

Look closely at the blacked-out section and you'll see that the text under it can (rather easily) be read. This would not be the case if this document had been photocopied, as there would be no grays, only black and white.

Well, more accurately, the suspicious blacking-out leaves one of two possibilities. Either that the memo in question was never photocopied at all, or that someone blacked out Bush's address with a marker after the photocopy was made. But if Rather is to be believed that these are in fact copies of an original, then someone had to have modified the documents along the way to black out the address. Just another piece of the puzzle...

[Calpernia]

To be fair, Atomic Conspiracy pointed out that this information may have been a publicity stunt for April Fools.

I'm doing quite a few searches. I'm finding pdf docs showing that CBS and IndyMedia are sharing independent reporters, CBS has access to Indy's translation server, Indy stores media pieces for CBS at their server, and the story below went out translated to all their mirrored language sites. It was even picked up by list servers.

I think this was floated as a joke; but with truth behind it.

I belive it.

http://www.indymedia.org/en/2004/03/110687.shtml

Indymedia.org team in merger talks with CBS/Viacom
George Soros, CEO of Indymedia.org ltd has begun merger talks with the CBS/Viacom News Network to help bring together the Vibrant Staff of the Independant News Network with the resources and Global Consumer Reach of the CBS news network. This follows a meeting of the IMC Board of Directors and key Indymedia shareholders where it was decided that Indymedia needed to branch out from its traditional Liberal readership demographic to encompass more mainstream news interests and readerships....