Free Republic
Browse · Search
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

CBS ^ | 9/10/04 | Staff

Posted on 09/09/2004 7:33:57 AM PDT by TastyManatees

New Questions On Bush Guard Duty

CBS) The military records of the two men running for president have become part of the political arsenal in this campaign – a tool for building up, or blowing up, each candidate’s credibility as America's next commander-in-chief.

While Sen. Kerry has been targeted for what he did in Vietnam, President Bush has been criticized for avoiding Vietnam by landing a spot in the Texas Air National Guard - and then failing to meet some of his obligations.

Did then-Lt. Bush fulfill all of his military obligations? And just how did he land that spot in the National Guard in the first place? Correspondent Dan Rather has new information on the president’s military service – and the first-ever interview with the man who says he pulled strings to get young George W. Bush into the Texas Air National Guard.


But 60 Minutes has obtained a number of documents we are told were taken from Col. Killian's personal file. Among them, a never-before-seen memorandum from May 1972, where Killian writes that Lt. Bush called him to talk about "how he can get out of coming to drill from now through November."

Lt. Bush tells his commander "he is working on a campaign in Alabama…. and may not have time to take his physical." Killian adds that he thinks Lt. Bush has gone over his head, and is "talking to someone upstairs."

Col. Killian died in 1984. 60 Minutes consulted a handwriting analyst and document expert who believes the material is authentic.

(Excerpt) Read more at ...

TOPICS: Breaking News; Extended News; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2004; 60minutes; bush; camejo; cbs; ccrm; cheney; dubya; edwards; election; forgery; fraud; gwb; kerry; killian; nader; napalminthemorning; nationalguard; pilot; seebsnews; texas
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 121-140141-160161-180 ... 941-945 next last
To: Soul Seeker
"The Old Media is a Propaganda machine for the DNC, U.N. & terrorists."

The "Old Media" as in really really old ?

"Old" as in one foot in the grave and the second is on the edge?


141 posted on 09/09/2004 8:59:25 AM PDT by TYVets
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 128 | View Replies]

To: TastyManatees

Note that Memos 1 and 4 also write "111th" and "187th" using superscript "th" in a smaller font. That feature is a 1990s windows development.

Also, in at least the first memo, the blacked out address is in the final scanned copy, because the black marker is grey enough to let the black text show through.

I think that this forgery is criminal. Someone should see jail time.


142 posted on 09/09/2004 9:00:06 AM PDT by Atlas Sneezed (Your Friendly Freeper Patent Attorney)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: tophat9000

WHERE'S THE RAISED "TH"? Is THat THe THmoking gun?

143 posted on 09/09/2004 9:00:27 AM PDT by mingusthecat (Mingus has again opined. Like any cat, she doesn't really care what YOU think.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 127 | View Replies]

To: freeperfromnj
The documents might be legit, except we are just hearing the Democrats and CBS's interpretation. Just like the AP reports heard boos instead of applause for Clinton.

CYA 18 August 1973 Interpretation

Bush was honorably discharged as a first lieutenant in October 1973. The CYA document is dated 18 August 1973.

The higher ups wanted the Colonel to give Bush a good final review before he left. The Colonel just documented that he couldn't do this, because he hadn't observed Bush in the previous year (Bush was in Alabama, the Colonel in Texas). This document is just to protect the Colonel's butt in case some one questions him in the future why he may have been too lazy to give Bush a review.

Suspension of Flight Status 1st - August 1972 Interpretation

I just see this a the Colonel wanting a replacement for Bush asap in 1972. You can even interpret statement (1) as the Colonel himself ordering Bush not to get a checkup.

19 May 1972 Interpretation

Just the Colonel documenting that he tried to keep Bush on in Alabama, in case someone later accuses the Colonel of running a holiday camp.
144 posted on 09/09/2004 9:00:31 AM PDT by igoramus987
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 123 | View Replies]

To: Old Sarge

Sent to Hannity. The "th" superscript is a MS Word autotype feature. It was fixed in the "letterhead," but not in the body of the letter.

145 posted on 09/09/2004 9:00:56 AM PDT by bootless (Never Forget - And Never Again)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: nikos1121

Kerry needs to excute the 180 (instead of the 360s he's been executing up til now).......

146 posted on 09/09/2004 9:01:15 AM PDT by RushCrush (Republicans think every day is July 4. Democrats think every day is April 15- R. Reagan)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: Beelzebubba

Not only that, but in the third memo, there is an extra space between the number "147" and the "th". In Microsoft Word, if you don't put a space between them, it will automatically reformat the "th".

147 posted on 09/09/2004 9:02:29 AM PDT by mcg1969
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 142 | View Replies]

To: concerned about politics

Where did you hear/see this from CNN? I just saw a pig fly by my window.....

148 posted on 09/09/2004 9:02:48 AM PDT by mingusthecat (Mingus has again opined. Like any cat, she doesn't really care what YOU think.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 120 | View Replies]

To: sinkspur

Be careful with this. The IBM Executive typewriter used proportional fonts, and was a staple in the military. It was first introduced in the late 1950s.

Could it do superscripts with reduced font size like in memos 1 and 4?

149 posted on 09/09/2004 9:02:57 AM PDT by Atlas Sneezed (Your Friendly Freeper Patent Attorney)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: TastyManatees

Not to burst your bubble but these documents were released by the Pentagon. Is the Pentagon in on this conspiracy?

150 posted on 09/09/2004 9:04:28 AM PDT by HULKFINDTRAIN
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: sinkspur

Did it have the superscript "th", as shown in the body of the letter in "111th"? I used them many years ago (late 70s and on), but don't recall.

151 posted on 09/09/2004 9:04:55 AM PDT by bootless (Never Forget - And Never Again)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: tophat9000

Yeah. Good post. No small "th" superscript in the fonts available to an IBM Selectric in 1972...

2 Full Legislative Days Left Until The AWB Expires

152 posted on 09/09/2004 9:05:48 AM PDT by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 127 | View Replies]

To: TastyManatees

The surest way to prove whether these docs are forgeries is to check Killian's file. These memos presumably came from his service file according to reports I've read. G.W. was not the only officer under Killians command. If Killian wrote 2-3 memos to file for Bush, he would certainly have written at least one other memo for some of the hundreds of other officers who served under him. Where are those memos? Are they typed in the same font? Are the Bush memos the only ones in existence?

Show me at least one other memo from the same timeframe that utilizes the same font and typesetting as the Bush memo.

153 posted on 09/09/2004 9:06:16 AM PDT by LibertyJihad
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TYVets

The second.

They are becoming obsolete, being replaced by NEW Media. Horse and buggies went out of date with invention of the automobile, Old Media is being diminished by cable, radio, internet.

154 posted on 09/09/2004 9:07:17 AM PDT by Soul Seeker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 141 | View Replies]

To: aft_lizard
Holy Moly!

I decided to take your suggestion and looked back at John Kerry's DD214s, also from 1972.

Not only were multiple machines used, but proportional fonts as well.

Check it out (in .PDF)

Lines 1-10 are in standard evenly spaced fonts

Lines 11 and 12 are in proportional fonts.

The form then goes back to even fonts for a while, and then the bottom section is all in proportional fonts again.

Maybe I'm off base here, but something is wrong with the use of this type of font on Kerry's DD214s from 1972.

And the OFFICAL DOCUMENTS watermark is such a nice touch...

155 posted on 09/09/2004 9:08:21 AM PDT by bondjamesbond
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 130 | View Replies]

To: sdkhaki; All
I checked this out with my "expert" (Google), and he came back with this link pictures). In 1966, IBM began producing a version of the Selectric, the "Composer", that could do proportional spacing, but it appears to have been a high-end, professional model that wouldn't have been very commonly used.

Apparently, you had to type a line, record the number and the line's length separately by hand, then re-type the line with the number and line length inputted into the typewriter. Basically, it looks like an extremely top of the line typewriter that an average person would not use, especially for a note to one's own file. I doubt most secretaries knew how to use that thing, let alone an Air Force officer. Check out the link for the pictures, that thing looks un-Godly complicated.

Thus, I still think the proportional spacing font indicates that these memos are forgeries. Perhaps some experts could weigh in?
156 posted on 09/09/2004 9:08:53 AM PDT by TastyManatees (
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 139 | View Replies]

To: Pete

The 18 August Memo .. has a superscripted 'th' in 187th.

Try this in MS Word or other common WP .. type 187 .. space .. th .. then try it without the space.
Notice the continual use of spacing between numbers and 'th' in the memos.. not necessary on a typewriter as it won't auto superscript (it can't).

But I will admit I am confused on one point:
MSNBC says that copies of these same memos were provided by the WH? So what gives?

157 posted on 09/09/2004 9:09:27 AM PDT by BlueNgold (Feed the Tree .....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: TastyManatees

Did it say anything about superscript "th"?

158 posted on 09/09/2004 9:09:42 AM PDT by mingusthecat (Mingus has again opined. Like any cat, she doesn't really care what YOU think.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 156 | View Replies]

To: bootless; sinkspur; Mo1; Howlin; Timeout
I found this over at Powerline...

UPDATE 2: Reader John Risko adds:

I was a clerk/typist for the US Navy at the Naval Underwater Systems Center (NUSC) in Newport RI for my summer job in 1971 when I was in college. I note the following with regard to the Killian memos:

1) Tom Mortensen is absolutely correct. Variable type was used only for special printing jobs, like official pamphlets. These documents are forgeries, and not even good ones. Someone could have at least found an old pre-Selectric IBM (introduced around 1962). Actually, I believe we were using IBM Model C's at the time, which was the precursor to the Selectric.

2) I also used a Variype machine in 1971. I fooled around with it in my spare time. It was incredibly difficult to set up and use. It was also extremely hard to correct mistakes on the machine. Most small letters used two spaces. Capital letters generally used three spaces. I think letters like "i" may have used one space. Anyway, you can see that this type of machine was piloted by an expert, and it would NEVER be used for a routine memo. A Lt. Colonel would not be able to identify a Varitype machine, let alone use it.

3) US Navy paper at the time was not 8 1/2 x 11. It was 8 x 10 1/2. I believe this was the same throughout the military, but someone will have to check on that. This should show up in the Xeroxing, which should have lines running along the sides of the Xerox copy.

4) I am amused by the way "147 th Ftr.Intrcp Gp." appears in the August 1, 1972 document. It may have been written that way in non-forged documents, but as somone who worked for ComCruDesLant, I know the military liked to bunch things together. I find "147 th" suspicious looking. 147th looks better to me, but the problem with Microsoft Word is that it keeps turning the "th" tiny if it is connected to a number like 147. And finally......

5) MORE DEFINITIVE PROOF OF FORGERY: I had neglected even to look at the August 18, 1973 memo to file. This forger was a fool. This fake document actually does have the tiny "th" in "187th" and there is simply no way this could have occurred in 1973. There are no keys on any typewriter in common use in 1973 which could produce a tiny "th." The forger got careless after creating the August 1, 1972 document and slipped up big-time.

In summary, the variable type reveals the Killian memos to be crude forgeries, the tiny "th" confirms it in the 8/18/73 memo, and I offer my other points as icing on the cake.

This is major news....spread the word!!! Posted by The Big Trunk at 07:51 AM | Permalink | TrackBack (26)

159 posted on 09/09/2004 9:10:02 AM PDT by Dog
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 151 | View Replies]

To: The G Man
CBS states that it "consulted a handwriting analyst and document expert who believes the material is authentic."

The memos on the website seem to be several generations away from the original. What kind of document expert would say that a 15th generation copy is "authentic"? That's crazy talk.

We need to pressure CBS to release the name of this "expert" and to reveal the route these "documents" have taken from Killian's files to them. If they can't do that, then they are complicit in the fraud.

The FCC should be brought in at that point to at least fine CBS, but there should be more severe penalties for complicity in fraud. Rather should be forced off the air permanently in disgrace.

160 posted on 09/09/2004 9:10:36 AM PDT by savedbygrace
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 121-140141-160161-180 ... 941-945 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794 is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson