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Social Security Benefits sought for Illegal Aliens
Rep. Dana Rohrabacher ^ | 8/26/04 | Self

Posted on 08/26/2004 4:52:39 PM PDT by AuntB

Rep. Dana Rohrbacher spoke today about his bill to stop various republicans, democrats and special interest groups from bestowing Social Security benefits to illegal aliens on CNN's Lou Dobb's program.

Though Mr. Rohrabacher's bill doesn't go far enough to address the crisis of illegal immigration, he did bring up many interesting points. Legislation, on a bi-partisan effort, is asking to give illegals Social Security benefits only after earning 6 quarters of work credit, whereas U.S. citizens must work 40 quarters to qualify. The absurdity of this is too obvious to debate.

The following is from Rep. Rohrabachers website.

No Social Security for Illegal Aliens

The federal government is thinking about giving away Social Security benefits to illegal aliens.

Various interest groups are pushing for the Social Security Administration to sign a "Totalization Agreement" with Mexico that would entitle illegal aliens to Social Security benefits. With Social Security and Medicare in crisis, this is so irresponsible it takes the breath away.

Congress must act, and act now. I have introduced legislation, H.R. 1631, that would forbid any Social Security credits for illegal aliens or work in violation of the terms of a visa. This would emphatically not affect those who have a legal right to work, such as legal permanent residents or those who have valid work visas.

Estimates vary, but even the lowest figures show adding illegal aliens to the Social Security rolls will cost the Social Security Trust Fund billions and billions of dollars. Seniors should ask why anyone would want to give those dollars to illegal aliens, draining funds available for Social Security and Medicare benefits, and reward those who break the law.

Joel Mowbray, who writes for The National Review and The Washington Times has a very disturbing article on this issue. It should send a chill through the heart of anyone concerned about the solvency of Social Security.

My legislation HR 1631:

Forbids anyone working in the United States illegally from being able to participate in the Social Security system.

This includes not only undocumented (illegal) aliens, but anyone working in violation of the terms of their visa. (Someone on a tourist visa, for instance, is excluded.)

Why this legislation is necessary:

Current law is silent on this issue. While the SSA currently will not grant benefits to workers without a valid Social Security number, this is an administrative policy. Unless Congress acts, this policy can legally be changed by the Social Security agency. The U.S. State Department has been pushing for including illegal aliens in the Social Security system to use as a "carrot" to gain the Mexican government's cooperation on various international issues (the war on terrorism, criminal extradition agreements, etc.)

The 2000 Census results show over 11 million illegal aliens living in the United States.

If even one third of these become eligible for Social Security, it will devastate the system.

* Social Security benefits are weighted to give higher proportional benefits to lower wage workers. Most of these illegal aliens are very low wage earners, so they would receive far more than they paid in. * Joel Mobray from The National Review has estimated potential costs at $345 billion dollars * It will be a bookkeeping nightmare. Many illegal aliens create false Social Security numbers, use the Social Security numbers of others, and share both false and "borrowed" Social Security numbers with many others who use them also. Determining a verifiable work history will be impossible. * Making someone eligible for Social Security would also provide benefits to their spouses and dependent children, and not only Social Security but possibly Medicare -- upping the cost of this still further. * It rewards lawbreaking and encourages further illegal immigration. Some "Totalization Agreements" serve a useful function. Large corporations, both in the United States and abroad, often assign personnel to work in an overseas office for several years. During these years, personnel are "double taxed" -- they pay both Social Security and the equivalent tax in their native countries. Allowing the SSA and foreign agencies to give credit under one system toward retirement makes sense when it involves a limited number of persons working here legally and temporarily.

This is NOT the case with illegal aliens. MILLIONS of LAWBREAKERS with UNVERIFIABLE work histories will be added to the system -- causing a financial crisis.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Extended News; Government
KEYWORDS: aliens; bloat; bushamnesty; democrats; discrimination; illegal; illegalaliens; immigration; legislation; mexico; republicans; socialsecurity; votepandering
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To: FITZ

"Apparently Mexico's pension plan "

Fitz, do you suppose Mexico actually has a pension plan, other than our SS that is?

I honestly think it would be more effective to ship arms to the Mexican people and let them overthrow that mess they call a government down there. WHAT is the hold Fox has on Pres. Bush? Doesn't he realize he is not going to get the majority of illegal votes? AND yes, they vote. In Oregon you need NO ID to vote. I suppose there are other states as well.


41 posted on 08/26/2004 5:56:27 PM PDT by AuntB ("Go count your blessings and when you're done come complain to me." MY Grandma!!)
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To: FITZ

"is asking to give illegals Social Security benefits only after earning 6 quarters of work credit, whereas U.S. citizens must work 40 quarters to qualify. The absurdity of this is too obvious to debate."

Guess those in the know think American workers are actually 7 times harder working that the Mexicans (just trying to look at the er uh bright side) :-)


42 posted on 08/26/2004 5:56:48 PM PDT by PersonalLiberties (An honest politician is one who, when he's bought, stays bought. -Simon Cameron, political boss)
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To: John Valentine
So, I wonder what is different about the Mexico case.

The Mexican pension plan is out of money --- it's probably gone into the pockets of some very corrupt, very wealthy officials but it's bankrupt.

I think what our government may be doing is using what's left of our social security system to try to buy off the revolution which is likely to happen in Mexico. We give the peasants our retirement, maybe they won't get too mad.

43 posted on 08/26/2004 5:57:08 PM PDT by FITZ
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To: FITZ

Let the Mexicans revolt. It would be cheaper for proper border control than giving them the retirement accounts. They have every right to be angry at their govt why should be pay one red cent to protect their politicians?


44 posted on 08/26/2004 5:59:34 PM PDT by PersonalLiberties (An honest politician is one who, when he's bought, stays bought. -Simon Cameron, political boss)
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To: PersonalLiberties
I am only 29 (last year I can honestly say that) :-)

Its always good to hear wisdom from the younger generation. Hope isn't lost!

45 posted on 08/26/2004 6:00:14 PM PDT by canalabamian (Common sense, unfortunately, is not very common)
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To: FITZ

"who came up with this 6 quarters idea?"

Sorry I didn't answer your question before. I don't know, but I'm trying to find out. That's what Rohrabacher said on TV. It probably follows the rule that SSA has now, that if one is younger, or less work experience, they do not have to work as long as the rest of us to qualify. As in SSI...the welfare portion of SSA (which should NOT be part of SSA), one does not have to work at all to receive disability benefits. More on this at:
http://www.ssa.gov/dibplan/dqualify2.htm

"The number of work credits you need to qualify for disability benefits depends on your age when you become disabled. Generally, you need 40 credits, 20 of which were earned in the last 10 years ending with the year you become disabled. However, younger workers may qualify with fewer credits.

IMPORTANT: Remember that whatever your age is, you must have earned the required number of work credits within a certain period ending with the time you become disabled. Your Social Security Statement shows whether you meet the work requirement at the time it was prepared. If you stop working under Social Security after the date of the Statement, you may not continue to meet the disability work requirement in the future. "


46 posted on 08/26/2004 6:01:22 PM PDT by AuntB ("Go count your blessings and when you're done come complain to me." MY Grandma!!)
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To: Dubya
How sad. And this is happening in a Republican control Fed Gov. Where do we go next?

It's just disgusting to read this. Real depressing.

47 posted on 08/26/2004 6:03:11 PM PDT by Joe Hadenuf (I failed anger management class, they decided to give me a passing grade anyway)
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To: TheLion

"Unless they vote these idiots out of office, this will continue."

You are right of course and there is another problem. These life tenured federal employees have more control of our lives than they should and most of them need fired.


48 posted on 08/26/2004 6:03:14 PM PDT by AuntB ("Go count your blessings and when you're done come complain to me." MY Grandma!!)
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To: FITZ
I think what our government may be doing is using what's left of our social security system to try to buy off the revolution which is likely to happen in Mexico. We give the peasants our retirement, maybe they won't get too mad.

Why, that's plumb loco! If Mexicans are self-destructive enough to make a revolution, who are we to deny them?

Our job is to secure our borders and to make certain that people don't come over illegally. Some say that we need the Mexicans to do farm labor. I say we only need to Mexicans to do farm labor labor CHEAP. I say let individual bargainers set farm wages, and we'll have all the farm workers we need from right here in the US of A.

49 posted on 08/26/2004 6:04:34 PM PDT by John Valentine ("The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein)
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To: AuntB
Legislation, on a bi-partisan effort, is asking to give illegals Social Security benefits only after earning 6 quarters of work credit, whereas U.S. citizens must work 40 quarters to qualify. The absurdity of this is too obvious to debate.

Our own government has gone completely insane.

50 posted on 08/26/2004 6:06:06 PM PDT by Joe Hadenuf (I failed anger management class, they decided to give me a passing grade anyway)
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To: FITZ

"Do all 10 get full benefits?"

Yes, it's likely. Not long ago, we read about all the fraudulent documents, SS cards etc. these people get from the coyotes bringing them in. A couple years ago, I was at the SS office. There were 4 young, strong looking "hispanics" in line in front of me. They had to get them an interpreter. They were there to change their address for their checks.


51 posted on 08/26/2004 6:07:04 PM PDT by AuntB ("Go count your blessings and when you're done come complain to me." MY Grandma!!)
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To: AuntB

"ONLY approximately the last 5 years (NOT the last 5 years worked....the last few years period ), count toward disability benefits....NONE of that 30 years count. NONE of it."

That's a total lie!

I quit paying into SS in 1978 after paying maximum for 26 years and started collecting SS when I was 65. The amount that I receive is less than some people get but still quite substantial, $1,163/mo..


52 posted on 08/26/2004 6:13:10 PM PDT by dalereed
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To: AuntB; blackie; jla; FBD; MeekOneGOP; hchutch; Coop; Landru; BOBTHENAILER; GrandmaC
"Various interest groups are pushing for the Social Security Administration to sign a "Totalization Agreement" with Mexico that would entitle illegal aliens to Social Security benefits."

We need to develop a list of names of the politicians and special interest groups supporting this ridiculous legislation...and they should be publically acknowledged as EnemiesOfAmerica!!

SHEEEESH...MUD

53 posted on 08/26/2004 6:28:00 PM PDT by Mudboy Slim (RE-IMPEACH Osama bil Clinton!!)
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To: dalereed

Read it again, dalereed..."disability benefits"...here read about it:

http://www.ssa.gov/dibplan/dqualify2.htm

"The number of work credits you need to qualify for disability benefits depends on your age when you become disabled. Generally, you need 40 credits, 20 of which were earned in the last 10 years ending with the year you become disabled. However, younger workers may qualify with fewer credits.

IMPORTANT: Remember that whatever your age is, you must have earned the required number of work credits within a certain period ending with the time you become disabled. Your Social Security Statement shows whether you meet the work requirement at the time it was prepared. If you stop working under Social Security after the date of the Statement, you may not continue to meet the disability work requirement in the future. "

BTW, be more careful about who you call a liar.


54 posted on 08/26/2004 6:38:08 PM PDT by AuntB ("Go count your blessings and when you're done come complain to me." MY Grandma!!)
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To: zerosix

I think anyone caught hiring (knowlingly) illegal aliens should immediately have their business or businesses permanetly shut down. NO appeals. If workers are needed in the fields to pick crops, have prisoners do it. Or better yet, pay high school and college kids to do it.


55 posted on 08/26/2004 6:44:19 PM PDT by proudofthesouth
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To: canalabamian
The Dutch of all people are starting to feel the negative effects of their 'liberal' immigration policies. Turks and Sierra Leone-ians have flooded the Neverlands. They drain the social system without bring anything to the table.

I spoke with a friend from Toronto Canada today, and she says that Toronto is becoming deluged with illegal aliens from Jamaica and Asian countries. They're coming for the welfare state. She says the Jamaicans especially are causing the crime rate to soar. She says it is becoming impossible for citizens to see a doctor without waiting for weeks or months.

56 posted on 08/26/2004 6:53:36 PM PDT by janetgreen (CALIFORNIA - ILLEGAL ALIEN HEAVEN)
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To: Mudboy Slim

I'm up for that! How about I look around and see what more I can find. It is strange isn't it that no one seems to be coming on to counter people like Rorhrabach......yes, you're right, they need outed big time. I'll send you what I find! Nothing has mentioned the particular bill, if there is one to inact this.

Some talking head said this can be done by " administrative directive" , I do not know....let's hope not. Although, if what I've read is so, the Clinton Administration is who messed it up a few years ago for a lot of the disabled. People were cut off benefits when the "time period" quarters changed and won't know it until they're stuck in it.

It's not easy to explain. The SSA website says, "The number of work credits you need to qualify for disability benefits depends on your age when you become disabled. Generally, you need 40 credits, 20 of which were earned in the last 10 years ending with the year you become disabled. However, younger workers may qualify with fewer credits. "

Say you are off work for 5 years at 50 years of age. You paid in to SS for 30 years. At 55 you get sick and apply. By the time they deny you 3 or 4 times...typical...another 2-3 years has passed. You don't have enough 20 credits earned in the last 10 years. YOU have NO benefits.

The point is, "our servants" understand this, just like they understand the folly of their PC illegal immigrant scam. So few of us have gripped about this entire SSA that we are ignored or worse called crazy. I pray that the masses stop ignoring this problem before it's too late. I'm not sure that hasn't already happened. Not one candidate or their minions will touch it. Of course NONE of them have to count on the SSA system. Every one equal under the law, my white Irish Butt!


Good seeing you, sweetface.


57 posted on 08/26/2004 6:55:56 PM PDT by AuntB ("Go count your blessings and when you're done come complain to me." MY Grandma!!)
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To: AuntB

Do you believe illegal aliens should be able to collect social security benefits?

Yes 4% 193 votes

No 96% 4338 votes
Total: 4531 votes


Looks like President Bush and Vice President Vincet Fox will have to ignore the American public, as usual. Secretary of Interior Karl Rove will be lobbying the SSI with hopes to prove Americans mean exactly the opposite of these numbers.


58 posted on 08/26/2004 6:59:26 PM PDT by azhenfud ("He who is always looking up seldom finds others' lost change...")
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To: azhenfud
Dana@mail.house.gov

Contact for Dana Rohrabacher, a man with a brain. My rep is the useless Jane Harman, who wouldn't surprise me a bit by voting for this insanity. If President Bush embraces this, he risks re-election.

59 posted on 08/26/2004 7:07:31 PM PDT by janetgreen (CALIFORNIA - ILLEGAL ALIEN HEAVEN)
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To: Joe Hadenuf

"Our own government has gone completely insane."


Well, it's been a process that's taken a while. Joe, this is a real simple answer, but I believe it's a root of the problem. The Social Security Administration, and most if not all, agencies of the government has been taken over by lawyers. All the Social agencies are lawyers and "psychology" wonks, trained in the liberal universities. Then add on a bunch of incompetant employess..who can't be fired! Tenure can breed corruption, don't underestimate that. We all have stories of having to deal with "public employees". YES, there are good ones...and the good ones know how bad it is.

I recently had to get involved in genealogy because of health reasons. Ah, well, we're all genetic freaks, what can I say! I digress.....
Some of my ancestors in the early 1800's were born in "the State of Franklin". The State of Franklin was slated to be the 14th state. It finally, after blood and years, did not happen. It was named for Ben Franklin andin it's constitution it stated that NO lawyers could serve in the legislature.

Too old we grow too soon, too smart we grow too late.


60 posted on 08/26/2004 7:18:55 PM PDT by AuntB ("Go count your blessings and when you're done come complain to me." MY Grandma!!)
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