Posted on 08/26/2004 4:36:06 PM PDT by Shermy
PORTLAND, Ore. - A swiftboat crewman decorated in the 1969 Vietnam incident where John Kerry (news - web sites) won a Bronze Star says not only did they come under enemy fire but also that his own boat commander, who has challenged the official account, was too distracted to notice the gunfire.
Retired Chief Petty Officer Robert E. Lambert, of Central Point, Ore., got a Bronze Star for pulling his boat commander — Lt. Larry Thurlow — out of the Bay Hap River on March 13, 1969. Thurlow had jumped onto another swiftboat to aid sailors wounded by a mine explosion but fell off when the out-of-control boat ran aground.
Thurlow, who has been prominent among a group of veterans challenging the Democratic presidential candidate's record, has said there was no enemy fire during the incident. Lambert, however, supports the Navy account that says all five swiftboats in the task force "came under small arms and automatic weapon fire from the river banks" when the mine detonated.
"I thought we were under fire, I believed we were under fire," Lambert said in a telephone interview with The Associated Press.
"Thurlow was far too distracted with rescue efforts to even realize he was under fire. He was concentrating on trying to save lives."
The anti-Kerry group, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, has been running television ads challenging the Navy account of the boats being under fire. Kerry has condemned the ads as a Republican smear campaign.
A career military man, Lambert is no fan of Kerry's either. He doesn't like Kerry's post-Vietnam anti-war activity and doesn't plan to vote for him.
"I don't like the man himself," Lambert said, "but I think what happened happened, and he was there."
A March 1969 Navy report located by The Associated Press this week supports Lambert's version. The report twice mentions the incident and both times calls it "an enemy initiated firefight" that included automatic weapons fire and underwater mines used against a group of five boats that included Kerry's.
Kerry's Bronze Star was awarded for his pulling Special Forces Lt. Jim Rassmann, who had been blown off the boat, out of the river. Rassmann, who is retired and lives in Florence, Ore., has said repeatedly that the boats were under fire, as have other witnesses. Lambert didn't see that rescue because Kerry was farther down the river and "I was busy pulling my own boat officer (Thurlow) out of the water."
Thurlow could not be reached for comment about Lambert's recollections.
But speaking for the Swift Boat Veterans group, Van Odell, who was in the task force that day, remembers it differently from Lambert.
"When they're firing, you can hear the rounds hit the boat or buzz by your head. There was none of that," he said in a telephone interview from Katy, Texas, where he lives.
Lambert said the swiftboats were on their way out of the river when a mine exploded under one, PCF-3.
"When they blew the 3-boat, everyone opened up on the banks with everything they had," he said. "That was the normal procedure. When they came after you, they came after you. Somebody on shore blew that mine."
"There was always a firefight" after a mine detonation, he said.
"Kerry was out in front of us, on down the river. He had to come back up the river to get to us."
Lambert retired in 1978 as a chief petty officer with 22 years of service and three tours in Vietnam. He does not remember ever meeting Kerry.
Run with it, Hell, the MSM is calling this a total vindication for Kerry.
I've been looking for the thread from a couple evenings ago wherein a FReeper was commenting on on Kerry's uncanny luck with missing mines. Those near-misses, as told by Kerry, seemed a bit contrived. But this new (for me at least) bit of information would be a convenient and plausible explanation for some of Kerry's adventures. I imagine it would be difficult to sit on the shore and try to guage when a target is in the right spot. One could expect more misses than hits.
Personally, Kerry never should have been allowed to write up the report for this incident, especially since he hadn't bothered to stay around and complete the mission, which included towing PCF3 back home. How someone receives a medal, whether under fire or not, for totally disregarding the safety and well-being of his fellow sailors, and for violating standard military procedure is beyond me.
Kerry in the White House!! What about it makes you think that the focus of this campaign should be on these refutiations?
Look, just point out Kerry's anti-war record and only the absolute things that you can irrefutably show, then fense sitters will have no doubt of what this man is about.
This back and forth between Vets just takes the focus OFF what Bush can beat Kerry hands down on.
An actual record!
It wouldn't have been all that tough.
At the time of the incident, the Swifts were passing around a fishing weir on both sides of it. That restricted how far side-to-side that they could have been from the mine's location. A Swift is 50 or so feet long. Unless it was going very fast, it would be fairly simple to time your detonation to occur somewhere along its length. I'm not sure how fast they were moving at the time but I suspect that they slowed somewhat to go around the weir.
His past honesty is also on the line in that he "signed off" as an eyewitness for Thurlow's Bronze Star award. I don't know what I'd do if I had a ghost like that in my closet. I'd like to think I'd clear the ghost out. Sooner is better than later, and later is better than never.
Yes, his statment is not made with the same "certain" conviction expressed under oath, in recent affidavits, by some of the Swiftees who were also there.
When Kerry wrote the report, he may have actually believed they were under fire, as he hi-tailed it out of there and heard the U.S. forces opening up on the shoreline after the mine went off. But he was wrong.
The other crewmen complained about Kerry's reckless handling of his boat. This was a case of his recklessness coming up to bite him. When it caused Rassman to fall off the boat, Kerry concocted the entire story to hide the fact that it was his rash driving that almost got someone killed. Thus, a story of a rescue under enemy fire would justify his initial attempt to flee the scene as well as justify a medal when he goes back to keep a catastrophe from destroying his naval career. Rassman has been in Kerry's pocket from day one. He knows the true story of why he fell off the boat. For some reason he went along with Kerry's story to protect Kerry from the damage it would cause to Kerry's Officer's Fitness Report.
I think it is not. I think the damage report should say PCF-3, and that it cites PCF-94 is an error.
http://swiftboats.net/ <-- Independent Information
He is? All the polls I've seen have Kerry & Bush about even!! That should tell you folks something, the SBV ads will only invigerate Kerry's campaign because the MSM focus will be on the negative aspects of the SBV.
Drop the ads while you're ahead...
Interesting that there was no body count. I really can't imagine a few guys with AKs attacking five swift boats.
Your complaint is with the media. If the Bush campaign makes a bigger fire, people will look there, instead of here.
Well. That's what I get for not paying close attention. Makes sense. Thank you.
Of the swift boat vets who support Kerry, does anybody know how many of them received medals recommended by Kerry. If any of Kerry's medals are proved to be phony, it would cast doubt on the crew's medals as well. Just a thought.
You make no sense. Kerry made VietNam the centerpiece of his campaign. If you don't like it take it up with him.
Kerry's poll numbers are going down because of the SWB dudes who are eyewitnesses and provide proof. Bush certainly wasn't doing it on his own for the last six months, was he? What's happening now is the public is finally focusing on Kerry. That's the last thing Kerry wants. He wants the focus on Bush and Al Garib and all this other nonsense.
What do you mean "let's just point out ..."? This SWB stuff is being independently brought out by vets. There is no "let's" to discuss. I guess you could call all 200+ of them and complain if you like and think it would do any good.
Everything you are saying is incorrect.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.