Just saw this 
in a local bar...
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Posted on 08/26/2004 4:36:06 PM PDT by Shermy
PORTLAND, Ore. - A swiftboat crewman decorated in the 1969 Vietnam incident where John Kerry (news - web sites) won a Bronze Star says not only did they come under enemy fire but also that his own boat commander, who has challenged the official account, was too distracted to notice the gunfire.
Retired Chief Petty Officer Robert E. Lambert, of Central Point, Ore., got a Bronze Star for pulling his boat commander — Lt. Larry Thurlow — out of the Bay Hap River on March 13, 1969. Thurlow had jumped onto another swiftboat to aid sailors wounded by a mine explosion but fell off when the out-of-control boat ran aground.
Thurlow, who has been prominent among a group of veterans challenging the Democratic presidential candidate's record, has said there was no enemy fire during the incident. Lambert, however, supports the Navy account that says all five swiftboats in the task force "came under small arms and automatic weapon fire from the river banks" when the mine detonated.
"I thought we were under fire, I believed we were under fire," Lambert said in a telephone interview with The Associated Press.
"Thurlow was far too distracted with rescue efforts to even realize he was under fire. He was concentrating on trying to save lives."
The anti-Kerry group, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, has been running television ads challenging the Navy account of the boats being under fire. Kerry has condemned the ads as a Republican smear campaign.
A career military man, Lambert is no fan of Kerry's either. He doesn't like Kerry's post-Vietnam anti-war activity and doesn't plan to vote for him.
"I don't like the man himself," Lambert said, "but I think what happened happened, and he was there."
A March 1969 Navy report located by The Associated Press this week supports Lambert's version. The report twice mentions the incident and both times calls it "an enemy initiated firefight" that included automatic weapons fire and underwater mines used against a group of five boats that included Kerry's.
Kerry's Bronze Star was awarded for his pulling Special Forces Lt. Jim Rassmann, who had been blown off the boat, out of the river. Rassmann, who is retired and lives in Florence, Ore., has said repeatedly that the boats were under fire, as have other witnesses. Lambert didn't see that rescue because Kerry was farther down the river and "I was busy pulling my own boat officer (Thurlow) out of the water."
Thurlow could not be reached for comment about Lambert's recollections.
But speaking for the Swift Boat Veterans group, Van Odell, who was in the task force that day, remembers it differently from Lambert.
"When they're firing, you can hear the rounds hit the boat or buzz by your head. There was none of that," he said in a telephone interview from Katy, Texas, where he lives.
Lambert said the swiftboats were on their way out of the river when a mine exploded under one, PCF-3.
"When they blew the 3-boat, everyone opened up on the banks with everything they had," he said. "That was the normal procedure. When they came after you, they came after you. Somebody on shore blew that mine."
"There was always a firefight" after a mine detonation, he said.
"Kerry was out in front of us, on down the river. He had to come back up the river to get to us."
Lambert retired in 1978 as a chief petty officer with 22 years of service and three tours in Vietnam. He does not remember ever meeting Kerry.
we should be hearing from the VC who supposedly shot at the swiftboats that day. the goats and the monkeys on or near the shore have told the DNC they do not want to speak about it. you get it.
Exactly. The only fire he heard or saw was American fire.
He got a Bronze Star out of it so he can now say he "thought" they were under enemy fire.
Any swifties on line...?
Thnx
Bump + there was supposedly hostile fire for a length of 2.5 miles along that 75-yard-wide river. But no bullet holes in the boats. And I thought I was a bad shot.
They have POOF. They were there. It's Kerry's word against all of the other 3 boat skippers. It would be 4 but he's dead. These guys also don't care about politics - they care about truth. Kerry has run his whole campaign on a house of cards that is crumbling down. Incredible. What an idiot.
What is it about this that makes you so afraid?
Just saw this in a local bar...
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They were there rescuing the men on the mined swift boat, which was slowly sinking, and preparing to tow it FOR 1 !/2 HOURS. (Unfit for Command entry)
The three boats that stayed to help PCF 3 were there for about an hour in a waterway that was 75 yards wide.
There were NO reports of injuries from gunfire.
There were NO reports of Gunfire damage to the boats.
How do the Viet Cong miss 3 stationary 55 ft boats at less than 75 yards?
Bush has nothing to do with it. It's the veterans doing this.
Got it?
This guy knows that if Kerry's medal is bogus, so is his.
I thought it was during "that rescue" that Kerry claims to have been under fire.
Lambert "didn't see that rescue"... how can even AP claim that he is saying Kerry was under fire then?
Written by Kerry.
All descriptions that I've seen indicate that it was a 'command-detonated mine' which means that a person on shore would have to be there to trigger it. That doesn't necessarily mean that there were any others there to fire at the boats.
<speculation
I think that there would have to have been a fairly large VC force present to be willing to go up against the combined firepower of five Swifts.
/speculation>
The VC weren't all that advanced in their weaponry. An improvised mine with a human to trigger it is quite likely to have been all they had available.
Kerry is tanking in the polls because of the Swift Boat Vets. God bless 'em!!! I sent them $250.
Indeed.
Kerry punched out awards for himself and his entire crew that day--like punching out doughnuts. Who is going to dipute the account when it would mean the loss of your own medal?
From what I understand, after the mine exploded, the other boats opened fire on each coast..until there was an all-clear....Kerry, of course, returned when the all-clear was sounded to help with the rescue.
There are really only two possibilities:
1) They were unbelievably poor marksmen.
or
2) They weren't shooting at them.
I think I'll go with option #2.
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