Records Counter a Critic of Kerry

Washington Post ^ | 8/19/04 | Michael Dobbs

[Callahan]

Newly obtained military records of one of Sen. John F. Kerry's most vocal critics, who has accused the Democratic presidential candidate of lying about his wartime record to win medals, contradict his own version of events.

In newspaper interviews and a best-selling book, Larry Thurlow, who commanded a Navy Swift boat alongside Kerry in Vietnam, has strongly disputed Kerry's claim that the Massachusetts Democrat's boat came under fire during a mission in Viet Cong-controlled territory on March 13, 1969. Kerry won a Bronze Star for his actions that day.

But Thurlow's military records, portions of which were released yesterday to The Washington Post under the Freedom of Information Act, contain several references to "enemy small arms and automatic weapons fire" directed at "all units" of the five-boat flotilla. Thurlow won his own Bronze Star that day, and the citation praises him for providing assistance to a damaged Swift boat "despite enemy bullets flying about him."

[CatoRenasci]

You think Kerry's fitreps were good? I was Army, and the OERs a little different, but a similar narrative on an Army OER would be a career stopper.

[hchutch]

Having looked at the article, they appear to be referring to Thurlow's Bronze Star citation and some unidentified document. The enemy fire part did make the citation.

This is an attempt to cover for Kerry, no doubt about it. But it is a skillful attempt. And they're going to dig into the other records.

[familyofman]

"...isn't this the first story the Post has done about this whole affair?"

No they have run a number of stories about the SBVT and their ads. But, I think it's the first time it made Page 1 (above the fold). They have also had at least one editorial concerning this.

[Gunrunner2]

>>Military people fill me in. Would he see the citation before hand? Who writes it?<<

Most times, under peacetime rules in a non-combatant environment, the guy receiving the award writes his own award. This is not supposed to happen but it does because it is a chore and the leadership is busy and it's nice to take a little burden off of them.

However, in a wartime environment, for combat actions, this is rarely done. A guy may make an after-action write-up, and from this write-up an award may be written.

So, usually, you fly a mission and do some grand stuff. You land and are debriefed and go to bed. The leadership may consider what you accomplished as worthy of an award and will use your write-up, as well as other statements, to craft an award.

You may never know you were put in for it until it arrives.

You may also, if you so desire, put yourself in for an award. . .but that is most distasteful and unbecoming for anyone who has a shred of self respect. It simply isn't done by anyone with character.

The fact that Kerry wrote up the after action and put others in for an award, leads me to believe he did so in order to bolster the case for HIS award.

Yes, it is likely the guy never knew he was put in for the award and yes, based upon what he recalls the situation to be, he may not have known the narrative (not summary on the citation) included embellishments of bullets flying rather than acting as a result of enemy action. You can phrase things to paint a picture of a situation that is not all that accurate while at the same time be semantically accurate (Clinton anyone?).

Hope this helps.

[Gunrunner2]

Air Force too.

[UncleJeff]

Excuse me??

"In a combat environment often requiring independent, decisive action, LTJG Kerry was unsurpassed. He constantly reviewed tactics and lessons learned in river operations and applied his experience at every opportunity. On one occasion, while in tactical command of a three boat operation his units were taken under fire from ambush. LTJG Kerry rapidly assessed the situation and ordered his units to turn directly into the ambush. This decision resulted in routing the attackers with several KIA. LTJG Kerry emerges as the acknowledged leader in his peer group. His bearing and appearance are above reproach. He has of his own volition learned the Vietnamese language and is instrumental in the successful Vietnamese training program. During the period of this report LTJG Kerry has been awarded the Silver Star medal, the Bronze Star medal, the Purple Heart medal (2nd and 3rd awards)."

Much as I dislike being put in a position of defending Kerry, what part of that is a "Career stopper"??

[Let's Roll]

You can buy it directly from the publisher, Regnery.

[cyncooper]

:)

I hope my comment was taken by Callahan in the spirit it was intended.

Character does matter and having taken a measure of the Swift Vets, I can see they are not liars. Also, many---far too many with large and influential soapboxes--in the media have demonstrated an alarming propensity of late to offer complete distortions of the facts in their "news"papers. We must read these types of stories with skepticism considering the sources and grant the presumption of truth-telling to the Swift Vets.

[jackbill]

Two other Swift boat skippers who were direct participants in the March 13, 1969, mine explosion on the Bay Hap, Jack Chenoweth and Richard Pees, have said they do not remember coming under "enemy fire." A fourth commander, Don Droz, who was one of Kerry's closest friends in Vietnam, was killed in action a month later.

Every living skipper who was on the mission - except Kerry - says that there was no "enemy fire".

[Casloy]

Except that it wasn't slander against Kerry, it was the truth. Does anyone believe he just made simple mistake remembering he was in Cambodia Christmas eve? The man is a liar.

[areafiftyone]

They already have leaped all over it. Washingto Post and MSNBC all have it up.

[Casloy]

This sort of thing still keeps the story alive. Kerry does not want this thing to keep being debated in the media. At some point he is going to have to go on Meet the Press or some other Sunday news show and answer the questions. It never helps a candidate to be off topic defending himself against charges. It's a loser for Kerry no matter what.

[CedarDave]

At some point he is going to have to go on Meet the Press or some other Sunday news show and answer the questions.

You mean softball questions from Meet the (biased) Press, or This Weak with Georgie Steponallofus? The questions will be non-relevant or only marginally so, easily answered ("the US Navy/DOD investigated, reviewed and approved the medal citations; so there is no issue there. Let's move on to how I will better conduct the war in Iraq better than George W. Bush given my experience in Viet Nam, which he doesn't have.")

[Bob from De]

"Situation Report for March 13,1969"
Below the statement of 5000 meters of fire, it indicates seven injured from mine explosion.
LTJG Richard W. Pees OinC PCF 3
ENS Kenneth S. Tryner
GMG3 Earl Hollister
RD3 Leslie L. Vorphal
LTJG John F. Kerry
GMG3 Wolfe
EN3 Arp
It looks like the regular crew of PCF 3, with Tryner as an officer in training, plus the oddball Kerry.
So PCF 3 AND Kerry hit the mine.

[tomahawk]

Good point, at least the Compost acknowledged this fact.

I've just donated another $25 to the SwiftVets.

The fact that the Compost is going after them shows they are effectively hurting Kerry.

[SunkenCiv]

It's from the link in message one.

[SuziQ]

Say what we want about Kerry, but he is not stupid. Ruthless, yes. Stupid, no. He has had a plan since before Viet Nam. No one has been able to bring him down. No one.

This is the first time he's pushed his Vietnam record, as far as I know. I don't ever remember hearing about it when was running for Senator, but then, since I'd never planned to vote for him in the Senate races, either, I admit I didn't pay very close attention.

[SuziQ]

Folks from Massachusetts aren't very selective about their candidates for Senate, now are they?

Unfortunately, here in MA, the Republicans seem to present 'me too' candidates, and folks can't see the reason to give up a Senator with 'Seniority'. That being said, both Kennedy and Kerry had strong runs against them in the last two elections. The Repub. got at least 30% of the vote each time, and that's pretty good considering this is a largely Democratic State. The only reason we have had Repub. governors is that they are RINOS for the most part, and considered harmless on the social issues by the Dems in the state who, after all, want a good economy so they like the fiscal conservatism.

[Chad Fairbanks]

I have 2+ rows of ribbons, and have never read the commendation to go with any of them, the only reason I know I have them is from my DD214. In fact I had a few more than I knew when I got out.

I know what you mean - I remember looking at my DD-214 and going "Huh? Ok, whatever..." LOL

[BushisTheMan]

Thurlow has said he is willing to give up his medal if given under false pretenses.

Is Kerry willing to do the same?