(President) Bush Says National Sales Tax Worth Considering

Rueters on Yahoo ^ | 8/10/04 | Reuters

[NormsRevenge]

NICEVILLE, Fla. (Reuters) - President Bush (news - web sites) said on Tuesday that abolishing the U.S. income tax system and replacing it with a national sales tax was an idea worth considering.

"It's an interesting idea," Bush told an "Ask President Bush" campaign forum here. "You know, I'm not exactly sure how big the national sales tax is going to have to be, but it's the kind of interesting idea that we ought to explore seriously."

Republican economists who speak regularly to the White House have said that the Bush campaign has been mulling the idea of an overhaul of the tax code as part of an agenda for a second term should Bush win reelection.

Some lawmakers have floated ideas of simplifying the tax code by putting in place a "flat" income tax rate or a national sales tax. But those ideas have so far not gained much traction in Congress. Opponents say such a system would not be in the best interests of the poor and the middle class who would pay the same tax rate as the wealthy even though they have less disposable income.

[E. Pluribus Unum]

Opponents say such a system would not be in the best interests of the poor and the middle class who would pay the same tax rate as the wealthy even though they have less disposable income.

There is a deliberate mathematical falacy in this statement... wealthy people DO pay a lot more taxes than the "poor and middle class" with a flat rate.

[oceanview]

imagine car sales the first 2-3 years after it was put in place. everybody who needed a car, would rush out and buy one before the tax kicked in - then, a bust.

[Mel Gibson]

Any income tax is intrinsically wrong--that is, the very concept of a tax on income is wrong. A tax that is arbitrary, like our current federal income tax, is simply confiscation under the guise of taxation.

How long would a proposed flat income tax stay flat after assault by the special "rent-seeking" interests in Washington, D.C.?

The flat income tax concept misses the $200 billion-plus underground economy of criminals, professional tax avoiders and foreign tourists.

Not only would a National Retail Sales Tax drive the underground economy above ground, bit it would eliminate the competitive DISADVANTAGE any direct income tax (flat or progressive) would place on American products selling overseas.

Foreign countries that have an indirect consumption tax have a competitive advantage against the United States in world trade.

Foreign countries can remove their consumption tax at their borders. Contrarily, U.S. goods which are sold retail in a foreign country are subject to two costs of government (in the form of taxes - ours and theirs). But if the foreign goods are sold in the United States, foreigners bear no part of the cost of U.S. government because they remove their consumption tax at their border and we do not add it on at our border.

We are penalizing our exports and subsidizing foreign imports with our present income tax system - i.e. we are exporting jobs overseas.

The American People need to inform politicians that the United States in not "Flat" and that a National Retail Sales Tax is the best alternative to the current progressive income tax which is derived from Karl Marx (believe it or not).

[goldstategop]

President Bush should campaign on a platform to abolish the IRS and let the American people keep their money in their pockets and challenge his opponent to follow suit.

[oceanview]

but alot of those people who are self incorporated or who have small businesses, write off alot of stuff they should not. especially cars, I think half the Mercedes I see on the road are probably writeoffs for small business owners.

straight W2 wage earners paying the income tax, probably have near zero fraud in their tax payments and deductions.

[jrawk]

But it has the built in checks and balances of the free market. Raise Taxes to high, and consumers stop buying. It results naturally in a level of taxes we are willing to pay. I fear however without spending discipline a inflationary reverberation could come into existence.

I favor a graduated flat tax. Rid our tax code of all the silliness around encouraging social behavior, and once again tie it directly to the amount of money needed to run the government. The entire tax code could fit on one 8 1/2" x 11" chart.

Get rid of witholding while we're at it, require everyone to pay once a month to maintain liquidity.

-- lates
-- jrawk

[xrp]

heads up

[Soul Seeker]

G.W. is running NOT for a historical legacy, but a second term as President of the United States. His record is a measure to judge him by but should NOT be the only measure by which he is elected. Candidates are expected to have platforms for how they intend to govern this nation for four years. A NRST or Flat Tax could be the first major new policy the Bush administration has put forth as a reason to vote for him to have another term. Everything else he has been stating as reason to elect he has been running on the last four years. This plan is bold, and it WILL arouse support if properly sold to the American people.

[xrp]

What if the Congress decides to "compromise" and let us pay both national sales tax and income tax under guise we have to phase it in.

Revolutionary War II

[ArmyBratproud]

Guess which one would not be phased out

[oceanview]

properly sold? we have a list of issues on which the Dems have seized the premise because of Rove's inaction for the last 6 months. Let him talk about those first, try and get some people back on those, before moving onto this.

[cavan]

"it WILL arouse support if properly sold to the American people."

Anyone who would believe *any* politician who has been in office for 4 years and who suddenly comes out with a plan that could have been put forward by him at any time in the last four years is a fool. That does not mean that it could not be "sold to [some] American people", after all, the Brooklyn Bridge has been likewise sold to the gullible.

[skip_intro]

I smell "Trial balloon" and the AA fire and flak is already zeroing in... ;-]

Geez, another one. Yesterday they resurrected the illegal alien amnesty plan; I guess the mission to Mars is coming next week.

[Sgt_Schultze]

Of the little I've heard so far about this tax proposal, it seems the intent is to replace the income tax. What about the various excise taxes? There is serious money made on incidental purchases of gasoline, tires, steel and other items. Do you suppose the forces of change could be convinced to eliminate all independent forms of taxation in favor of a single, transparent and predictable form of taxation?

[Blood of Tyrants]

Are you nuts? Any tax that is not paid a single time by the consumer is subject to bribery of politicians by companies and special interest seeking to get a fiscal edge. Also, income tax exemption status has been used as a club to cudgel many groups into silence on political affairs.

[Extremely Extreme Extremist]

I support the NRST only on four conditions:

(1) The 16th Amendment is totally repealed and the IRS completely abolished

(2) Corresponding cuts in government programs and the phasing out or elimination of Social Security/Medicare/Medicaid

(3) The rate should be a low 15% with NO deductions or exemptions of any kind

(4) The NRST must be levied on the FINAL purchase of goods and services, and not during production thereof, which is what a VAT is and which is widely used in socialist Europe

[Extremely Extreme Extremist]

HOLY SMOKES ARE YOU REALLY MEL GIBSON?

[Mel Gibson]

Do you suppose the forces of change could be convinced to eliminate all independent forms of taxation in favor of a single, transparent and predictable form of taxation?

Absolutely, MAKE THEM CHANGE THE SYSTEM!

It's only going to happen, if the people make it happen.

For more information on the Nation Retail Sales Tax, go to www.cats.org

[Mel Gibson]

(4) The NRST must be levied on the FINAL purchase of goods and services, and not during production thereof, which is what a VAT is and which is widely used in socialist Europe

Good point, we definitely do not want a VAT Tax which are taxes on stages of production.

[antiRepublicrat]

Opponents say such a system would not be in the best interests of the poor and the middle class who would pay the same tax rate as the wealthy even though they have less disposable income.

What's wrong with the same tax rate? A guy earning $25,000 per year buys a Dodge Neon at $14,000 and pays $2,380 in tax, meanwhile a guy earning $250,000 a year buys an Aston Martin DB9 (sweeeet) for $168,000 and pays $28,560 in tax.

I'm to be told the rich wouldn't pay more?