Posted on 08/09/2004 7:55:16 AM PDT by SJackson
When I asked my Muslim friend: Why do you hate the Jews?
An analysis of the roots of Muslim hatred toward Jews in the Islamic world and possible solutions.
T. Hamid
A few months ago, I was sitting with my Muslim friend sipping good hot American coffee. He has an advantage, which is that he does not get violent if he cannot answer a question, or is cornered in a discussion.
After the first two sips I asked him to tell me honestly, "why do you hate the Jews? â??
My friend started to change his position in the chair and said "of course I can". I asked him to give me the reasons and let us start to discuss them one by one.
My friend was very confident that he had very powerful reasons to justify hating the Jews and he started to list them as follows:
They think that they are the chosen people and better than others. The Quran described them as "Monkeys and Pigs" The Quran said they are cursed. They are rich and control many markets. They think that they are an intelligent race. They do not believe Mohamed and Islam. They do not follow the Quran. They betrayed Mohamed and Muslims. Israel has stolen the Arab land. Israel kills innocent Arabs and Muslims everywhere, tortures them, and rape their women.
I thanked him for making the reasons so clear so that we can start the discussion.
I said, "Let us now start discussing these points one by one"
Regarding the first "they think that they are the chosen people and better than others", I asked him if Allah said something in the Quran, would you believe it or not. He replied "of course I will". I then asked him "Are you ready to anything the Quran says?" He immediately replied "of course".
Then I opened the Quran and showed him the following verses:
2:47 Children of Israel! Call to mind the favour which I bestowed upon you, and that I preferred you to all other nations.
2:122 O Children of Israel! Call to mind the favor which I bestowed upon you, and that I preferred you to all other nations.
44: 32 And We have chosen them (the Children of Israel) above the 'Alamîn (mankind, and jinni) and our choice was based on a deep knowledge.
I then again asked him "Do you still believe the Quran in anything it says as you just said?"
He did not answer and I immediately told him it seems that you only believe the Quran when it is against the Jews! My friend went into a state of shock and absolute silence.
I then continued with the second point. "The Quran described them as "Monkeys and Pigs"". This is not what the Quran has said.
He immediately answered "What?"
I said to him let us open the Quran and see the exact verse:
5:60 Say: "Shall I point out to you something much worse than this (not following the holy book: the Bible) by the treatment it received from Allah, those who incurred the curse of Allah and His wrath, those of whom some He transformed into apes and swine, those who worshipped evil - these are (many times) worse in rank, and far more astray from the even path!"
(Obviously the verse is talking about another nation that does not follow the bible, and not the Jews at all).
After I showed my friend the exact verse I said to him: Can you please show me the word Jews in the verse?" Then I repeated "show it to me please"
I then said, "It seems that you want to understand the Quran in such a way that makes you hate the Jews more and more. Sadly, hatred makes you blind so that you cannot even see the words in the verse. You go out and say everywhere that the Quran said that "the Jews are pigs and Monkeys" without even reading the verse properly!
You insult a whole great nation that is considered in the Quran as "Godâ??s preferred and chosen people"
My friend was in near shock and I agreed to give him few minutes to breath and have a drink.
After the break I continued to tell him that the third point that he mentioned "Allah cursed the Jews in the Quran" is also an absolute lie as the exact verse is:
5:78 Curses were pronounced on those among the Children of Israel who rejected Faith (in G-d and the Torah), by the tongue of David and of Jesus the son of Mary: because they disobeyed and persisted in excesses.
So the verse as in the previous one is not talking about all the Israelites, but only about those who rejected God and the Torah.
Once more, go deeply into the Arabic language first before accusing a whole great nation that is highly respected in the Quran as Godâ??s chosen people of being "cursed by God" and do not generalise that which is specific.
.
We then had another cup of coffee and then continued the discussionâ?¦.
While sipping the second cup I went through the next point, which was "They are rich and control many markets".
I did not want to spend much time on this one as it just represents jealousy, but I said to himâ?¦"Why then you do not also hate the Saudis while they are rich and control the oil market?" He did not answer.
I then asked him "Why, if a Muslim is rich, you do not hate all Muslims. Whilst if one Jew is rich you hate all of them? Is this reasonable? �� My friend, you should not hate someone because he is rich. You should judge people by their deeds and actions. There is nothing wrong if you are rich. What is wrong is when you use that money to promote hatred toward others".
Throughout history, millions of Jews were extremely poor, and they lived in the poorest places in Europe. If a minority were rich, it is not a sin. This is no different from Muslims, Christians, or Hindus who also have some rich people among themâ?¦ Will you hate all of these people too because "some" of them are rich?
My friendâ?¦it seems that your primary intention is to hate the Jews and you are just trying to find any reason to justify your hatred, because if you really hate them because "some" are rich you should also hate Muslims because "some" of them are rich.
"Can I hear your answer my friend?" Silence.
Then he started to ask, "What do you think about this point "They think that they are an intelligent race".
I told my friend that I really cannot understand why it is normal for you and for many Muslims to say that the Afro-Americans are genetically athletic and the Arabs are great in poetry. But it is very difficult for you and for them to admit that the Jews are genetically intelligent. Genuine statistics show that the Jews have had more scientists and contributed more to science than the whole Arab world, even though they are only a very small number compared to Arabs.
Furthermore, IQ is mainly genetic, and it is well known that Jews marry mainly from within their community. This feature magnifies the effect of certain genetic factors and could have contributed to the very high IQ among many Jews, and at the same time contributed to the development of certain genetic diseases within their own community (such as Tay-Sachs disease).
Do you only accept the rules of genetics when it causes mental retardation for some Jewish kids (who have metabolic errors) and you totally forget about the same genetic rules if it causes high IQ among them?
He started to get angry and asked me to shift to the next point.
I said to him the next point was "They do not believe in Mohammed and Islam".
I continued, saying the Quran did not consider that Jews or Christians have to believe in Mohammed to be accepted by God. My friend just opened his mouth and said, "This is impossible."
I just opened the Quran for him to the following unambiguous verse:
2:62 Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians (certain sect in Arabia),- any of them who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
In fact the Quran did not ask the Jews and Christians to follow any thing but the Torah and the Bibleâ?¦
And before my friend had time to think, I recited for him the following verse of the Quran:
5:66 if only they (Jews and Christians) stood fast by the Law of the Torah, the Gospel, and all the revelation that was sent to them from their Lord, they would have enjoyed happiness from every side.
In fact the Quran blamed the Jews for asking Mohammed to judge between them in their tribal problems, instead of following the torah:
5:43 But how do they (the Jews) come to you for decision, when they have the Torah which has the law of God.
Then I said to himâ?¦" What do you think now my friend? I think you can see now clearly that your hatred for the Jews based on the fact that they should believe in Mohammed and follow the Quran, is simply against what the Quran had said.
This time my friend opened his eyes and could not blink.
Then I continued saying, in addition, the next point that you mentioned "they betrayed the prophet Mohammed and Muslims" has no logic in it at all.
Sadly, many Muslims hate the Jews based on this historical point. It is described in Islamic history books as: "when Mohammed had a war against the Idolaters, he and the Muslims burrowed a great tunnel around the city of the Muslims and left an area to be protected by the Jews"â?¦ According to this story, the Jews allowed the enemies of Muslims to enter the city from this area. Sadly, based on this story, millions of Muslims came to hate the Jews.
I then said to him, "Let us assume that this story is correct, does this mean that if your grandfather hit my grand father a hundred years ago I should hate you for that? What a strange and unjustifiable logic the Quran is teaching you.
But it says;
17:15 â?¦No bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another (mistakes or sins).
So, even if the historical story was correct, how come you hate the Jews of today for something they did not do?
Furthermore this story does not come from the Quran. It is only present in some Islamic history books, which are considered much less accurate than the Quran. So do you want to follow a story that could be absolutely inaccurate in order to hate a whole nation? Is this right or moral?
We now come to the two last points
"Israel has stolen the Muslimâ??s land".
Without going into to many details of this point let me tell you that the Quran considered this land as the promise of God to the Israelites, the land that is written to them in a permanent contract, and that it is their inheritance according to the following Quranic verses:
1- 17:104 And We (represents God in Arabic language) said thereafter to the Children of Israel, "Dwell securely in the land of promise":
2- 5:21 "O my people (the Jews)! Enter the holy land which God hath written to you and turn not back ignominiously, for then will ye be overthrown, to your own ruin."
3- 26:59 Thus it was, but we made the Children of Israel inheritors of it (the Promised Land)
At this time I felt sorry for my friend, as he was nearly speechless, shocked, and I could only hear the sounds of his anxious breathing.
Then I said to reassure him, "If you really love Godâ?¦. love the truth and speak it, even if it is against what you want to prove, and what you may like to believe, or if it is supporting those that you hate, as the Quran teaches you the following:
4:135 O ye who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to God, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin
5:8 O ye who believe! Stand out firmly for Allah, as witnesses to fair dealing, and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just: that is next to piety: and fear Allah. For God is well acquainted with all that ye do.
The final point that you mentioned my friend is what the Arab media propagate everywhere that is that: "Israel kills innocent Arabs and Muslims everywhere, tortures them and rape their women.
I then asked him: if this was true, why then do we see tens of thousands of Palestinians waiting at the cross borders to get permission to go and work in Israel?
Why would these people go intentionally to the place that as you said, "Kills them, tortures them, and rape their women!"
Is there any possibility that someone goes to a place where he/she knew very well that he/she will be killed and tortured or are these are just lies.
If what you say that, "Arabs are killed and tortured in Israel" was truly happening, we would not have found these thousands of Palestinians dreaming about getting permission to work in Israel. In fact we would have found that more than a million Arabs who live in Israel, are the ones who are crossing the borders to go to their Arab relatives in the West bank and Gaza to be saved from what they call "The Israeli oppression".
My friend,
Stop this unjustifiable hatred against the Jews.
Do not let hatred rule your life. Start, at least for once, to try to love rather than to hate. Just try to love.
My friend,
Have you ever talked with a Jew?
Have you ever sat with him or her on the same table to enjoy the food that God gave both of you?
Have you ever tried to give them a smile, to laugh with them, and to cry with them?
Have you ever tried to understand them?
Have you� have you� have you���..
Just try to start
Just try to put your hand in the hand of the Jews to write a story of loveâ?¦just tryâ?¦my friend and you will never regret it.
T. Abdelhamid
Is there a hope to Reform Islam
An analysis of the real roots of Islamic terrorism and possible solutions
T. Hamid
It is evident that Islam has been linked to violence for almost all of its history. Sadly, this is to a great extent true. From the beginning of the invasion of most of Europe, North Africa and some parts of the East by early Muslims in order to convert them to Islam. Continuously until the modern crisis of Islamic Terrorism that shocked the world on Sep 11th, that ended the lives of many innocent Jews in Israel, that ended the lives of many innocent Australians in Bali attack, that caused the catastrophe of bombing the train in Spain, and which has tortured to death many innocent Westerners who live in the Islamic world.
Many people in the West tried to correlate the recent violence observed in the Islamic world to lack of education, poverty, and a feeling of oppression blamed on the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.
Unfortunately, the simple facts showed us clearly, and beyond doubt, that these excuses are not the true causes of Islamic terrorism. Most of the leaders of terrorism are highly educated people who range from Doctors, e.g. Alzawaheri the second man and the real brain of Alqaida, lawyers, e.g. the first female Palestinian terrorist, and University students, e.g. Mohammed Atta who was one of the top organisers of Sep the 11th.
In addition, most of the hijackers on Sep 11th were from Saudi Arabia, the richest Islamic country. If the theory of poverty is correct, why then are the poor people who live in Brazilia are not the ones who lead international terrorism?
Furthermore, Islamic Terrorism was minimal between the declaration of the state of Israel in 1948, until the early 1970s, when the Arabs were in a real war with Israel.
If the Israeli/Palestinian conflict was the cause of terrorism, we would have found terrorism booming between 1948 until the early 1970s. On the contrary, it dramatically increased in the late 1980s and until now when some Arabs states have signed peace agreements with Israel.
This increase in terrorism directly correlates with the rise of Islamism in the late 1980s until now.
I have a Muslim/Arabic background, and I know how Muslims (including myself at an early stage of my life) think, I clearly state that Muslims are using the excuse of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict just to make the world hate Israel. It has nothing to do with the current phenomenon of terrorism. Which was going to happen any way, as a secondary phenomenon to expanding a violent version of Islam in later years?
It is also difficult for any normal mind to comprehend that throwing concentrated sulphuric acid on the face of young girls who do not wear the Islamic veil/scarf, by the hands of the Islamic groups in Algeria, is related to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.
As one who was a member of one of the most fanatical groups in Islam, GI in Egypt, and as a person who has resisted Islamic fundamentalism when I realized its threat some 20 years ago, I feel that it is my obligation toward mankind to declare that the origin of Islamic Terrorism is deeply rooted in the way Muslims understand their religion. In other words, in Islamic teaching itself.
When you read the Quran, you will find many great verses that promote peace and tolerance. But you will also find verses that can make you very violent and intolerant toward Non Muslims.
Sadly, most Islamic scholars throughout the history of Islam, present it in a way that promotes a very violent and intolerant attitude. And more sadly, the oppressive religious system suppresses many attempts to understand Islam in the light of the peaceful verses.
Not only that, but the majority of Muslims especially those in the Arab world, are brought up in a manner that considers a peaceful understanding of the religion as a sign of weakness rather than a sign of strength.
A violent understanding of Islam is based on the following fundamental beliefs that are fixed in the mind of many, if not most, knowledgeable Muslims.
These are:
1- The concept of Allnasech and Almansuch . 2- The ignorance of the value of the word the . 3- Practicing Hadith of Al-Bukhary and other books while ignoring unambiguous peaceful verses of the Quran. 4- Historical understanding of the verses rather than language-based understanding. 5- Presenting only a special part of the verse to promote specific meaning and ignoring the rest of the verse.
Let us now address the previous points separately and see if this violent way of thinking could change.
1- The concept of Allnasech and Almansuch.
According to this concept and based on traditional Islamic teaching, certain verses especially the later ones cancel the meaning of other earlier verses on a similar subject.
Let us have a look at these two parts of the Quran to understand the above concept.
Verse 1 60:8 God forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing very kindly and justly with them: for God loves those who are just. 60:9 God only forbids you, with regard to those who fight you for (your) Faith, and drives you out of your homes, and supports (others) in driving you out, from turning to them (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to them (in these circumstances), that do wrong.
Verse 2
{9: 29} Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (Mohammed), nor acknowledge the religion of Truth (Islam), (even if they are) of the People of the Book (Christians and Jews), until they pay the Jizia (Humiliation Tax according to traditional Islamic teaching and practice in history) with submission, and feel themselves subdued. (Revelation Number 113).
Sadly, according to the concept of Allnasech and Almansuch traditional Islamic teaching teaches that the later verse negated the former which obviously will result in extremely violent understanding and practice. This way of thinking (to cancel the meaning of the peaceful verses) is based on the following verse in the Quran:
There are two ways to understand the above Arabic word as the origin of the word Nansakho, is the verb Yansakho or its more powerful version Yastansikho.
The first way of understanding the word Nansakho in the above verse, is to abrogate (cancel the meaning) as in the following verse:
22:52 Never did We send an apostle or a prophet before thee, but, when he framed a desire, Satan threw some (vanity) into his desire: but Allah will cancel (Yansach) anything (vain) that Satan throws in, and Allah will confirm (and establish) His Signs: for Allah is full of Knowledge and Wisdom The other way of understanding, the word Nansakho means (to write and document something) as in the following verse: 45:29 "This Our Record speaks about you with truth: For We were wont to put on Record and write down (Nastansikho) all that ye did."
The difference here is huge, as according to traditional teaching, the first verse is canceled out. Thus ending in the violent verses canceling the meaning of the peaceful ones, as those violent verses were proclaimed by the prophet Mohammed at a later time.
On the other hand, if the word Nansakho is understood as to write down and document the meaning of the verse could be that: If God has written of his miracles or signs (Aia) in the books or did not write it down and consequently people forget it, he usually comes with a better one.
As you can see, the interpretation which is based on pure Arabic language, shows the real power of God in bringing new and better miracles and signs every time which is compatible with the word able to do anything at the end of the verse.
While understanding it as cancellation of a meaning, it is not compatible at all with the ability of God, as any one can cancel what he or she said.
In other words the concept of cancellation of the meaning is not compatible at all with the end of the verse (see the black box above).
Imagine that, according to the concept of cancellation of the verses, most of the peaceful verses in the Quran were considered Mansuch or cancelled by the violent ones and consequently it is not surprising to find the outcome of Islam is almost always violent!!
2-The ignorance of the value of the word the
Many readers may wonder how these three letters can make such a fundamental difference in the understanding of the Islamic religion.
It is as if some one told you give me a book, and then you can generalize the meaning and apply it to any book. Whilst if he or she said to you give me the book then the whole meaning changes to a specific book that both you and the speaker know.
To explain this point in the understanding of the Quran, please have a look on the following verse:
9:73 O Prophet! strive hard against the (Infidels) unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be very harsh against them. Typical Islamic teaching generalizes the above verse to all Infidels. This obviously will succeed into changing many followers of Islam into beasts.
The word the specifies the meaning to ONLY a certain item or group. Such groups are defined by the following verse that specifies with whom the rough treatment, violence, or fighting should be:
2:190 Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not start attacking others.
If the word the is considered in the process of understanding the Quran, many the verses that promote violence against Non-believers (Infidels) will be specific to ONLY those who start war on Muslims and can not be applied to any Infidel.
Can you see now how the word the can make such a difference!
3-Practicing the Hadith of Bukhary, and other books, whilst ignoring the unambiguous verses of the Quran.
Hadith is considered by most Muslims as the oral traditions of Mohammed. No one is considered to be a Muslim without following them, according to traditional Islamic teaching. These started to be collected some 200 years after the death of the prophet Mohammed by a man called Al-Bukhary, who was followed by many others who also collected (as they claim) the oral traditions of Mohammed.
The best example to illustrate how following Al-Bukhary resulted in a catastrophe in Islam. It is the hadith that justifies killing any one who converts from Islam to another religion.
The Hadith is in a book called Sahih Albuchary and is considered by Al-Bukhary as a correct Hadith or Hadith Sahaih.
Let us have a look now at that Hadith, and compare it to what the Quran has stated:
Hadith: It is not allowed for any Muslim to kill another Muslim except in the following circumstances: if he committed murder, if he committed adultery, and if he converted from the Islamic religion to another religion
Look now at what the Quran states, to understand the difference: 18:29 Say, "The truth is from your Lord": it is up to anybody to believe it or not to believe it (convert or become Infidel)
I think the difference is clear between the two approaches.
As the reader can see, applying that which is written in Al-Boukhary resulted in justifying the threat of killing many innocent people such as Salman Rushdie (the author of the book, Satanic Verses), and many innocent people who want to have a different form of belief.
Whilst, to the contrary, the Quran gave full freedom for any person to believe in what he or she wants.
The application of the Hadith mentioned above (called Hadith Almurtad or the converter) has resulted in largely the domination of the violent version of Islam as the Hadith, which was used to kill virtually any one who dares to understand Islam in a peaceful manner.
4-Historical understanding of the verses rather than language- based one (Jihad)
The exact meaning of the word Jihad is to resist. This could be to resist an enemy who attacks you, or resist your desire to do evil.
Sadly, the word has been used throughout the history of Islam to attack those of different religions.
The Arab invasion of Europe and many other parts of the world such as Palestine, and North Africa are evidence of this. Since then, the word has become linked to an attacking attitude, rather than its real meaning, which is to resist.
It is like the word gay which typically means happy. Since its repeated use describing homosexuals, it has come to refer to homosexuals rather than its former meaning. The same has happened with the word Jihad which is linked to the violent attitude of most of current Islamic teaching. Whilst the original language-based meaning (to resist), was forgotten by most Muslims, and is virtually non-existent nowadays.
Muslims now have one of two choices. These are to understand the word in its historical context which means that they are declaring war against Non-Muslims all over the world, or to revert to the pure Arabic language-based understanding of the words encouraging peace.
5-Presenting only a special part of the verse to promote specific meaning and ignoring the rest of the verse
This point can be exemplified by the following verse that is used by many Islamic organisations to recruit young people. 9:36 and fight the Infidels all together.
When Muslims read this verse, many of them especially the young ones, get very motivated to practice the will of Allah and start thinking of attacking Non-Muslims to satisfy the Creator and inherit the paradise.
What these fundamental Islamic groups are not showing to these young Muslims is the rest of the verse, which is, as they fight you all together.
The whole verse is and fight the Infidels all together as they fight you all together but the Islamic groups presents the first part only to support their violent views. They hide the rest of the verse, as it will specify the fighting to ONLY those who start war on Muslims.
As can be seen, the traditional way of understanding Islam has contributed to the violence that has been committed by Muslims around the world.
It is so sad to see that so many people following such teachings, as those who attempted reformation or tried to promote a peaceful way of understanding Islam were prosecuted or killed.
I tried to teach a peaceful understanding of the Islamic religion for more than 20 years. I have warned many people of the catastrophic consequences that will happen from the expansion of such violent understandings.
Sadly the attempt was on a very small scale, and I failed because I was fighting virtually by myself against the violent version of Islam that is supported by the money of Saudi Arabia.
It is now the responsibility of Muslims to either accept the traditional teachings which will encourage them declare war on all Non- Muslims, or to accept the peaceful way of understanding their religion which can make them good human beings.
I sincerely hope that they choose the second option!
Finally, I want also to say to all Muslims:
Do not resist the light .. Do not love the darkness Hate the violent way of thinking, as it makes you appear as beasts .. Your violent way of thinking has resulted in the killing of many innocent people in the West . and has resulted in killing many innocent children in Israel.
I wish to see you one day demonstrating in your millions and saying to those barbarous Islamic fanatics like Bin Laden, Bin Laden you are the enemy of humanity.
Your deafening silence just shows that you support terrorism in your hearts, and that you need to change.
I have been into Churches and Synagogues where they were praying for you and for peace and at the same time - your Muslim preachers in the Mosques are saying loudly, Oh Allah make their children Orphans, .. Oh Allah make their wives widows, and even (most recently), Oh Allah make the uterus of the Infidels wives fibrotic If this is what you want your religion to be do not blame those who will say shame on Allah, and shame on your religion
If you mean God by the word Allah, then I assure you that the true God will curse you forever for defaming his name.
And a ping for those on Alouette's list, she's away from her computor.
Very good articles, thanks for posting them.
Bump for reference...
Bump and bookmark.
I predict many flames.
BTT
Islam has needed a charismatic leader who brings peace and resolution between the Quran, the Torah, and the Bible.
Too often these peace bringers are targeted first by the extremists.
bump for later reading
For the terroristds/fundimentalist/radicals/...whatever if you don't think EXACTLY like they do you're evil and must be killed, no matter weather you're Christian, Hindu, Jewish, Muslim.
They live in an 8th century fantasy world that never existed.
bump thx
Sadly true.
ping
very good reasoning and a great post
(Printed out to digest)
ping
We never get to hear the "end of the story" about how Hamid's friend ultimately left this new knowledge. Did he now agree with his friend or was he still stubbornly clinging to his fallacious belief?
"A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still."
Powder..Patch..Ball FIRE!
Reference BUMP!
Wow. That was a very good article. It seems to me that whoever wrote the Koran was schizophrenic. Everything in there is contradictory.
Ps: good tagline.
I wish to see you one day demonstrating in your millions and saying to those barbarous Islamic fanatics like Bin Laden, Bin Laden you are the enemy of humanity.
Your deafening silence just shows that you support terrorism in your hearts, and that you need to change.
I have been into Churches and Synagogues where they were praying for you and for peace and at the same time - your Muslim preachers in the Mosques are saying loudly, Oh Allah make their children Orphans, .. Oh Allah make their wives widows, and even (most recently), Oh Allah make the uterus of the Infidels wives fibrotic If this is what you want your religion to be do not blame those who will say shame on Allah, and shame on your religion
If you mean God by the word Allah, then I assure you that the true God will curse you forever for defaming his name.
Good wrap-up!
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.