Ready to rumble? Village Voice Author, Rick Perlstein, Here to Debate the Freeper Horde

08/03/2004 | Rick Perlstein

[dead]

Opening Statement

Dear FRiends:

I once suffered two great frustrations in being a freelance political writer. First, the loneliness: you put an article out there, and you might as well have thrown it down a black hole for all the response you get. Second, the ghettoization: when you do get response, it would be from folks you agree with. Not fun for folks like me who reliish--no, crave and need--political argument.

Then came the Internet, the blogs--and: problem solved.

I have especially enjoyed having my articles in the Village Voice posted on Free Republic by "dead," and arguing about them here. The only frustration is that I never have enough time--and sometimes no time--to respond as the threads are going on. That is why I arranged for an entire afternoon--this afternoon--to argue on Free Republic. Check out my articles and have at me.

A little background: I am a proud leftist who specializes in writing about conservatives. I have always admired conservatives for their political idealism, acumen, stalwartness, and devotion. I have also admired some of their ideas--especially the commitment to distrusting grand social schemes, and the deep sense of the inherent flaws in human nature. (To my mind the best minds in the liberal tradition have encompassed these ideals, while still maintaining that robust social reform is still possible and desirable. My favorite example is the Protestant theologian Reinhold Niebuhr, author of the Serenity Prayer and a great liberal Democrat.)

Lately, however, I've become mad at the right, and have written about it with an anger not been present in my previous writings. It began with the ascension of George Bush, when I detected many conservatives beginning to care more about power than principles. The right began to seem less interesting to me--more whiny, more shallow--and, what's more, in what I saw as an uncritical devotion to President Bush, often in retreat from its best insights about human nature.

I made my strongest such claim in a Village Voice article two weeks ago in which I, after much thought, chose to say conservatism was "verging on becoming an un-American creed" for the widespread way conservatives are ignoring the lessons of James Madison's great insights in Federalist 51 that in America we are supposed to place our ultimate trust in laws, not men.

Finally, in what I see as the errors of the Iraq campaign, I recognize the worst aspects of arrogant left-wing utopianism: the idea that you can remake a whole society and region through sheer force of will. I think Iraq is a tragic disaster (though for the time being the country is probably better off than it was when Saddam was around--but only, I fear, for the time being).

I am also, by the way, a pretty strong critic of my own side, as can be seen in my latest Village Voice piece.

So: I'm yours for the day--until 7:10 pm CST, when I'm off to compete in my weekly trivia contest at the University of Chicago Pub. Until then: Are you ready to rumble?

Respectfully,
Rick Perlstein

[Byron_the_Aussie]

...Mr. Perlstein, As best I can remember I have not ready any of your works so I am not in a position to engage you...

Count your blessings, Phantom Lord. Here's a sample:

history does not repeat itself. Nor, Arthur Schlesinger Jr. notwithstanding, does it unfold in cycles. But the discerning can still learn a few things about the future from the past. Mostly, that there's nothing you can really know about the future at all. And to pretend otherwise is an insult to democracy.

Perlstein's specialty is assertive unintelligibility.

[raybbr]

I agree with you. At first I thought this might be interesting but it turns out perlstein really has no logical argument or basis in reality for his assertions.

[Yardstick]

Reply speed has improved since I posted that. Look at the first 100 replies, and note how little he said. THAT is what I was pointing out.

There was a span of 18 minutes between Perlstein's first reply and the thread's 100th reply. During that eighteen minutes he replied four times (five if you count his first reply, which was a greeting).

In his first twenty replies, he averaged 3.9 minutes per reply (according to my quick and dirty calculations). When you first commented on his speed, he was averaging 3.7 minutes per reply. So he's staying pretty consistent at around 4 minutes per reply.

He *seems* slow, but he's not. It's a perception thing.

[Perlstein]

"The governor ran for president on a platform of balanced budgets, then ran the federal budget straight into the red."

There was this little matter of 9/11, but I wouldn't expect a 9/10 liberal to understand.
------
Brad, I'd love to see your accounting of how 9/11 made up for the surplus plus a defecit that in its latest estimate is $639 billion. That's a lot of airport scanners.

[alisasny]

A SAVAGING? THAT IS PRETTY FUNNY.... You are going to vote for Kerry and Edwards...right....you bash Edwards in total in your article but you dont even bat an eye when your vote comes up in NOV.

I cant call that a savaging article.

[Perlstein]

Sorry I'm 450 posts behind. Can't wait to read them!

Anway:
----How about his assertion that we have abandoned principle for power, and rule of law for rule of man? I'd like to see him both provide an example, and at the same time defend Bill Clinton's suborning purgery.
-------
Holding the medicare vote open for three hours, an unprecedented breech of congressional protocol. Producing memos approved by the VP's office saying the president doesn't have to follow treaties.

I don't defend Clinton because I didn't support Clinton.

[WOSG]

His bashing Ann Coulter doesnt make me angry. It makes me laugh. Ann Coulter deliberately makes over-the-top claims layered on top of carefully constructed solid arguments underneath. Liberals dont want to argue her real points, just the headlines, lest they actually get taken down by her facts ... She's like a Venus fly trap, only prettier.

[veronica]

So, are you Jewish?

[ChadGore]

Re: What specifically did Clinton do

History is a funny thing.

February 26th, 1992 = First WTC Bombing
February 28th, 1992 = WACO

Clinton had no problem telling his General (wess clarke) to roll his tanks, he just had trouble pointing them in the right direction.

[lavrenti]

"Everyone at Abu Ghbraib is "indefinetly detained"--or at least was until the recent Supreme Court decisions. Are you denying there are children at Abu Ghraib? That's an uphill argument for you. Do you want to make it?"

Sure, there were underge "children" at Abu Garib. Children formerly known to lugging around AK-47s and shooting Marines. It is clear by testimony that many undeage fighters participated in the April insurgency.

Children used in warfare is commonplace in the non-European world. The Shan Rebellion in Burma, various African insurgencies, even in El Salvador. Combantants are combantants regardless of age. If they're big enough to weild an automatic rifle and kill soldiers, then they be big enough to be tossed into prison.

The "children" argument leaves me cold.

[Perlstein]

Rick, you were great on that 'Beauty and the Beast' TV show with Linda Hamilton!
----
I only wish I were that tall.

But you can still call me Hellboy. Give 'em hellboy, Harry!

[Byron_the_Aussie]

..how sad that a Jew would side with the anti-Israel, anti-semitic left, and brag about it...

Well said, V.

I would have typed 'contemptible' instead of 'sad', btw.

[Liberty Valance]

Thanks for replying to my post. Of course I disagree with what you've said but i do appreciate it.


"He [Kerry]was very brave in leading the investigation of the way the Reagan Administration negotiated with hostage-takers in Iran; I admired that, certainly."

Kerry couldn't have anything get in the way of his precious sandanista commie buddies in Nicaragua thats for sure. We all know it was "for the children".

:o)

[Yardstick]

And if a "Pell grant" is such a great Govt program, amounting to a voucher for College, what is so awful about vouchers for K-12?

That's an excellent argument. I'll be interested in seeing what he has to say to that one.

[Southack]

"3) frog: that was W's childhood pal Terry Throckmorton to Nick Kristoff in the May 21, 2000 New York Times."

Then the NY Times needs a better search engine for their archives...

There were no matches for your search +Throckmorton +frog +Bush / since 1996 .

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5 Legislative Days Left Until The AWB Expires

[alisasny]

how 9/11 made up for the surplus plus a defecit

What net worth/lifetime in dollars do you put on the 3000 victims of 911?

[lavrenti]

Brad, I'd love to see your accounting of how 9/11 made up for the surplus plus a defecit that in its latest estimate is $639 billion. That's a lot of airport scanners.

The 9|11 attacks and the idiotic dot.bomb tulip madness had a devestating impact on tax ependitures and put a strain on the budget. Also, there were no "cuts" in the budgets of the 1990s, only slight limits in projected increases in spending. Once the rotten table legs of the Clinton economy fell, thus the problems with the budget.

[Critter]

Quick vote: who thinks I should have to respond to the guy who holds me personally responsible for Pol Pot and Janet Reno's raid in Waco? I'm willing if you think I should.

---

What is your opinion of Janet Reno's raid on Waco, btw?

[cake_crumb]

"Guys, do you really think that my most efficient contribution to silencing the opposition is to spend all day arguing here? We're not that malevolent, you know!"

I am going by nothing more than the opening to THIS debate thread sir. Am I correct in assuming you are the author? I imagine I am, since you attempted and failed to explain to me just exactly how all conservatives are shallow whiners.

Let's just go with "shallow whiners". Both are insults. Not a good first impression maker, especially if you hope to gain readers.

You then accused us of being of being "uncritical devotion to President Bush", leaving the burden of proof up to us. All I can say in that regard is that it's not an honest subject for debate. If you think we're mindlessly loyal to President Bush and blind to his faults, you've been studying conservatives on the wrong threads. The proof is right here on this gigantic information archive we call Free Republic. We're not going to make accusations without facts. That might be critical, but it's not honest, well thought criticism.

Just as you claim not to agree with Kerry on all the issues, but still want him elected, most of us disagree with Bush on one or more points but think he's the best man for the job.

[Byron_the_Aussie]

..to: Perlstein I give you credit for entering the lions den. Good luck...

'Lions den'? Sheesh.

I'm 70 posts in, and it's softball city. When did Freeperdom start rolling out the red carpet, for liberals???