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Tenure Review: Job-Security Tool for Teachers Gets Fresh Scrutiny
AP ^ | July 4, 2004 | Ben Feller

Posted on 07/04/2004 12:21:14 PM PDT by EggsAckley

WASHINGTON (AP) - The decades-old tradition of tenure protects teachers, often frustrates principals and has even surfaced as an issue in the presidential campaign. Now tenure itself is under review. Tenure guarantees that public school teachers who have this protection cannot be fired without legitimate cause and due process, perhaps even a court hearing. Almost every state provides tenure in some form.

Yet with federal law requiring schools to have a top teacher for every core class, more administrators are questioning whether tenure keeps them from getting rid of even a small number of instructors who just are not good enough in the classroom.

Democrat John Kerry, the presidential candidate favored by education unions, wants to make it easier for schools to act quickly against poor teachers, provided that educators are protected from baseless firings.

To teachers, tenure is a coveted and often misunderstood right - not a lock on a lifetime job, but assurance of fair treatment, including intervention for teachers who may be struggling to reach students.

"It's protection against the false accusations, against politically trumped up charges, against people who insist you must teach a certain way or risk getting fired," said Penny Kotterman, a special education teacher and president of the Arizona affiliate of the National Education Association. She spoke during a group interview Sunday with The Associated Press during the NEA's annual meeting.

Tenure is most associated with colleges and universities, where prospective professors earn it by compiling a rigorous record of research, teaching and service.

In the kindergarten through high school world, it is typically granted to teachers after two to five years of at least solid performance in a district, although debate continues over its value as a sign of quality.

Most principals and superintendents say tenure does not mean teachers have proved themselves to be very good, and many teachers agreed with that point in polls by the nonpartisan Public Agenda research group.

But Kotterman said that is off the mark. Tenure, she said, is meant mainly as an assurance of fair review, while certification and regular evaluation of teachers are indicators of quality.

In the polls, most teachers said tenure protects them from district politics and losing their jobs to newcomers who could be hired for less.

David Sanchez, a kindergarten teacher from Burlingame, Calif., said tenure has helped teachers who were being pushed out of jobs in retaliation for union activity.

Charles Hasse, a fourth-grader teacher and president of the Washington Education Association, said tenure helps because schools have fewer people in supervisory roles than many employers, making "the opportunity for misjudgments much greater."

School administrators, who are often former teachers, say they understand the point of tenure. But they say it can lead to frustrating delays in replacing poor teachers, leading some administrators to give up trying.

(Excerpt) Read more at ap.tbo.com ...


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Tenure is one of my pet peeves. I've had some professors who should have been forced to retire, due to incompetence. But they had that magic weapon......tenure.
1 posted on 07/04/2004 12:21:14 PM PDT by EggsAckley
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To: EggsAckley
My brother in law works for a school district in central Florida and he has mentioned that it would take a conviction of a felony to fire a unionized school employee.

He is on a year to year contract, so he has to perform his duties in order to have his contract accepted. Due to his number of years with the school system, he is just about assured a yearly job. He has mentioned however, tenure has ruined the dedicated teachers enthusiasm toward their jobs and it shows.

I heard that to pass the FCAT, a student needs only to achieve 40% correct to pass. Can you imagine getting 60% incorrect, and still passing? I'd be embarrassed to admit that one.

When did they lower the level to less then 70% correct?

2 posted on 07/04/2004 12:44:51 PM PDT by ThreePuttinDude (It's been a jihad for 1200 years...so whats new?)
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To: ThreePuttinDude

It's true here in CA, too. CONVICTION of a felony, that's the ONLY way to break their tenure. As a teacher friend of my says, it's Byzantine.


3 posted on 07/04/2004 12:47:21 PM PDT by EggsAckley ("We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good." Evita Rodham Clinton)
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To: EggsAckley
In the polls, most teachers said tenure protects them from district politics and losing their jobs to newcomers who could be hired for less.

What I'm hearing is: schools make their personnel decisions based on political ideology and even radical left-wing teachers are afraid they may not be radical enough to be safe (so they need tenure to protect them).
And ...
Teachers realize that they are paid more than they are worth and therfore demand that they be protected from cheaper competition (something the rest of us have to live with).

4 posted on 07/04/2004 12:50:55 PM PDT by ClearCase_guy (The Fourth Estate is a Fifth Column)
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To: ClearCase_guy

Yup.


5 posted on 07/04/2004 12:53:03 PM PDT by EggsAckley ("We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good." Evita Rodham Clinton)
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To: EggsAckley

It's a pet peeve of mine, too. Another one is the recent ruling that the teacher has to have a specific degree for the core subject he/she teaches. This means that children as young as 7 shuffle from classroom to classroom. It really can break up their concentration and focus. I think they should stick to the traditional method of teaching primary grades.


6 posted on 07/04/2004 12:54:29 PM PDT by TheSpottedOwl ("In the Kingdom of the Deluded, the Most Outrageous Liar is King".)
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To: EggsAckley
Tenure is one of my pet peeves...

The amount of tenure I've ever had in any job was about fifteen seconds. I don't understand the concept.

And, do you know how many hours per week the typical college professor spends teaching in a classrroom?

7 posted on 07/04/2004 1:01:35 PM PDT by The Other Harry
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To: TheSpottedOwl
Another one is the recent ruling that the teacher has to have a specific degree for the core subject he/she teaches.

I don't agree with you on this. There have been too many unqualified teachers instructing, for example, math.

Maybe in the lower grades, but not once they get to middle school or higher.

I am wondering if my own kids were ever taught what a noun is. They both write pretty well, but I doubt they were ever shown how to diagram a sentence.

I realize I'm dating myself with that.

8 posted on 07/04/2004 1:09:12 PM PDT by The Other Harry
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To: ThreePuttinDude

Because they know that many kids aren't going to pass the test and that parents won't support schools where the majority of students fail.

This goes on all over the country, CA and TX especially. TX has been especially clever about misleading parents and taxpayers about test scores. Figures don't lie, but liars figure. Under NCLB schools can close, teachers and administrators can lose their jobs, and students can be transferred if not enough kids pass the big test.

Many states are clever about how they decide if a school is "persistently dangerous" also. I read that in NY, if a girl is raped in a stairwell, that doesn't count unless the perpetrator holds a gun to her head.

School officials, unions, and politicians learn how to play the game very quickly.


9 posted on 07/04/2004 1:10:10 PM PDT by ladylib
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To: ClearCase_guy
What I'm hearing is: schools make their personnel decisions based on political ideology and even radical left-wing teachers are afraid they may not be radical enough to be safe (so they need tenure to protect them)
Wow. What state do you live in?
And ...Teachers realize that they are paid more than they are worth and therfore demand that they be protected from cheaper competition (something the rest of us have to live with).
Gee, I've been teaching for 14 years, and I don't make $40,000 yet. None of the teacher you're talking about live in Texas.
10 posted on 07/04/2004 1:10:55 PM PDT by Clara Lou (Hillary Clinton: "We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good.")
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To: ladylib
TX has been especially clever about misleading parents and taxpayers about test scores.
Strong statement. Please back up your statement with a link to evidence of this from a reliable source. Also, do you live in Texas?
11 posted on 07/04/2004 1:16:18 PM PDT by Clara Lou (Hillary Clinton: "We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good.")
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To: EggsAckley
Tenure is needed otherwise teachers fall prey to local politics. My wife is a teacher and she has pointed out many times teachers (including herself) that get on school board and superintendent sh!t lists for failing one of their friends' kids.


BUMP

12 posted on 07/04/2004 1:21:56 PM PDT by tm22721 (In fac they)
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To: EggsAckley

Two points:
1. Tenure in public schools is much different from tenure in higher education. In higher ed. it's harder to get and much harder to fire a tenured professor.

2. In nearly every state in the US, a good principal can "get rid of" a poor teacher. It takes time and good documentation, but it can be done. The biggest problem is that principals are saddled with so many other tasks, they can seldom find time to weeding out the bad teachers.


13 posted on 07/04/2004 1:24:43 PM PDT by zook
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To: EggsAckley
I'm inclined to support tenure. <ducking quickly> But I confess I happen to hold tenure. (I'm a college math prof.)

The negatives of tenure are clear. It's difficult to punish or fire faculty who do not do the work. This has a subtle corollary: it makes an academic career difficult to get into because you have to make the grade before you get tenure. Everyone knows granting someone tenure is risky, what if he turns out to be a schmuck? So they can be rough on new faculty.

So here are the positives about tenure:


14 posted on 07/04/2004 1:27:08 PM PDT by megatherium
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To: Clara Lou
Gee, I've been teaching for 14 years, and I don't make $40,000 yet...

I think if you start fully counting, you probably make a whole lot more than that.

15 posted on 07/04/2004 1:30:43 PM PDT by The Other Harry
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To: Clara Lou

No, but I check out educationnews.org once in awhile.

Here are some articles on the "Texas Miracle."

http://www.educationnews.org/George-Scott-Senior-Editorial-Writer.htm

There's also an article today on teachers' salaries. You are working in the wrong state. NJ pays a kindergarten teacher $70,000 per year. I wonder if she's worth it.


16 posted on 07/04/2004 1:31:42 PM PDT by ladylib
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To: The Other Harry

What should I count?


17 posted on 07/04/2004 1:33:59 PM PDT by Clara Lou (Hillary Clinton: "We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good.")
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To: EggsAckley

I can't believe the number of veteran teachers I see that can't teach- but because they are tenured and unwilling to give up a cushy job, they never ever, ever, ever, ever, retire. Our county teachers are all blue hairs.


18 posted on 07/04/2004 1:35:07 PM PDT by Porterville (Fight Communism, vote Republican- and piss on france)
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To: zook
The biggest problem is that principals are saddled with so many other tasks, they can seldom find time to weed out the bad teachers.

I know sonmething about this.

As a practical matter, it virtually cannot be done. Nor are the people in charge usually disposed to do it.

This contrasts with my own experience in private business. Anyone could be fired at anytime for no reason whatsoever.

If they could show that you fired them because they were gay or black or fat or something like that, then they would have recourse. Not otherwise. You just tell them to get the hell out. Then you change the locks.

19 posted on 07/04/2004 1:39:36 PM PDT by The Other Harry
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To: The Other Harry
And, do you know how many hours per week the typical college professor spends teaching in a classrroom?

I teach 9 hours (actual classroom hours) a week. This is not unusual in higher ed, teaching loads are 4.5 to 12 hours depending on research expectations. For every hour in class I probably spend twice that time in preparation (writing lectures, setting homework assignments and tests) and in grading.

On top of that, committee work ("service" is what college profs call this). Committees can be time consuming. Committees do things like review colleagues for promotion and tenure (which can be a rough business), approve new courses or degree programs, and review applications for summer research money.

That brings up the remaining thing a faculty member must do, at least in many schools -- research. This is the most difficult thing most faculty have to do. You have to write papers and submit them to journals. The journals send these papers to other experts ("referees") who give thumbs up or thumbs down. (I've been a referee a few times myself.) If you don't publish so many papers, you don't get tenure.

20 posted on 07/04/2004 1:40:42 PM PDT by megatherium
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