Damn! How'd that pidgeon get in here?
Posted on 07/02/2004 8:36:00 PM PDT by Kerberos
WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- President Bush, seeking to mobilize religious conservatives for his reelection campaign, has asked church-going volunteers to turn over church membership directories, campaign officials said on Thursday.
In a move sharply criticized both by religious leaders and civil libertarians, the Bush-Cheney campaign has issued a guide listing about two-dozen "duties" and a series of deadlines for organizing support among conservative church congregations.
A copy of the guide obtained by Reuters directs religious volunteers to send church directories to state campaign committees, identify new churches that can be organized by the Bush campaign and talk to clergy members about holding voter registration drives.
The document, distributed to campaign coordinators across the country earlier this year, also recommends that volunteers distribute voter guides in church and use Sunday service programs for get-out-the-vote drives.
"We expect this election to be potentially as close as 2000, so every vote counts and it's important to reach out to every single supporter of President Bush," campaign spokesman Scott Stanzel said.
But the Rev. Richard Land, who deals with ethics and religious liberty issues for the Southern Baptist Convention, a key Bush constituency, said he was "appalled."
"First of all, I would not want my church directories being used that way," he told Reuters in an interview, predicting failure for the Bush plan.
The conservative Protestant denomination, whose 16 million members strongly backed Bush in 2000, held regular drives that encouraged church-goers to "vote their values," said Land.
"But it's one thing for us to do that. It's a totally different thing for a partisan campaign to come in and try to organize a church. A lot of pastors are going to say: 'Wait a minute, bub'," he added.
The guide surfaced as a spate of opinion polls showed Bush's reelection campaign facing a tough battle. (Poll: Sending troops to Iraq a mistake; Interactive: Poll questions and responses)
A Wall Street Journal/NBC poll showed Bush running neck-and-neck with Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry among registered voters, 47 percent of whom said they now believed the president had misled Americans about the threat posed by Saddam Hussein's Iraq.
The Bush campaign has also been spending heavily on television ads, only to see the president's approval ratings slump to new lows.
Stanzel said the campaign ended the month of June with $64 million on hand.
He had no figures on how much Bush has raised in June.
At the end of May, Bush had raised $213.4 million and spent all but $63 million.
The latest effort to marshal religious support also drew fire from civil liberties activists concerned about the constitutional separation of church and state.
"Any coordination between the Bush campaign and church leaders would clearly be illegal," said a statement from the activist group Americans United for Separation of Church and State.
(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...
You have no concept of a 'theocracy' if that's what you think this is. It really is nothing more than getting out the vote among your constituency. But you're right: this is a mistake. It's not the most diplomatic method. And it is, precisely, what the Demonrat party will do across Black America, albeit in a more covert fashion.
The concept of which you speak, "separation of Church and state," has been interpreted into our Constitution by recent Supreme Court opinions.
What the founding fathers "incorporated" in the Constitution was a prohibition on Congress from either establishing a religion or preventing the free exercise of any religion.
Would you please tell me exactly how a political party asking private citizens for a list of their club members violates those prohibitions?
Please note that:
- Parties are neither the Congress nor the State,
- Asking is not forcing, and
- Private citizens are... well, private citizens.
On the topic of historical perspective, please also explain how the 2 most devastating tyrannies in history, nazism and communism exhibited no ties between state and religion.
If you believe that churches should not get involved with political parties that's fine, but please stop finding hidden meanings in the Establishment clause. They are not there!!!
I agree. All the Bush campaign wants is to find voters that their message might appeal to and reach out them, get them involved in the political process, and inform them. It just so happens that these people are religious. They aren't trying to get priests and whole churches themselves behind the campaign, just individual voters who share his values because they happen to be religious and belong to a church. And don't democrats always say that more of us little people should be involved in the political process? Seriously, it bothers me so much that the media and democrats and even some conservatives get all touchy whenever religion is mentioned in the same paragraph (unless its about a Dem and his religion) as politics.
"Even the leadership of the Southern Baptists understands that this is just wrong."
True, it was a mistake for the Bush campaign to do this. I hope this doesn't turn off my fellow conservative evangelicals to not vote. Whoever advised this should be canned.
On the other hand, I don't give a rip what "Americans for the ...blah, blah, blah" thinks. They are hypocrites in that Black Churches have been hotbeds for partisan vote organization for years. They are blatant about it, and no one ever questions it because they are the RATS slaves. It is only "wrong" when republicans try this in churches leaning their way.
And since when do you believe the spin that CNN puts on anything? There is a huge difference between folks volunteering information and the government demanding it through some legal means. We are NO WHERE near a theocracy unless the religion is illiberalism....get a grip
This is wrong and dangerous stuff. What assurances can be made the lists will not be used to create a master list that can be sold to businesses to raise funds, or used in some other manner?
Next they'll think of writing every state Republican leader, or local police chief for lists of gun owners (another conservative block), and imagine that getting into the wrong hands. What are these people thinking?
I would no more trust a political party with my information then I would a stranger. Oh wait! The political parties are the government. Well, no wonder they think an invasion of privacy is a sound way to conduct themselves.
I'd quit any church that felt they had a right to share my information with anyone.
Where the heck did the conservative wing of the Republican Party go? This party hss turned to the left, and it had best change direction.
It is only when democratic congregations of a few souls gathered in the name of their God dare to pose an obstacle to the secularization of America that the Left becomes exercised about the politicization of the pulpit.
What written law are you referring to? The Constitution clearly states that there should be no "religious test" to hold office.
Before the California Governor recall election, Clinton was shown live on local tv with Davis in a black church (at the pulpit with the preacher).
Davis also made the church/temple/mosque rounds for weeks prior to the election.
It was a State thing and has been posted to FR several times in the past.
Note to self: Don't submit name and address to any church directories.
Look, I'm a Republican, but "I" choose whether, how, and with what organizations I involve myself. I don't appreciate being spammed, and this--to call a spade a spade--is spam.
Classic example of a good idea that's been horribly, horribly executed.
"Where the heck did the conservative wing of the Republican Party go?"
It has simply been turned into another socialist utopian party by the Christian fundamentalist. The only difference between Republicans and Democrats these days is that the Republicans now have a theocratic bent to the party. Which as history clearly proves has never been good for the average man.
But we should keep in mind that conservatives let this happen by keeping their mouths shut for fear of being ostracized in the community as being an atheist.
It is way past time that we get over that fear and took the party back.
"And since when do you believe the spin that CNN puts on anything?"
Never, primarily because I don't believe or disbelieve in anything, there is only what is and what is not. Everything else is "don't know,” words that you will rarely find on this site.
"This establishes a dreadful precedent. If the leaders of a political party can access church rosters for organizing purposes, what will prevent President Hillary or some other socialist in the future from using such rosters as a way to persecute Christians? "
Nothing, but the current administration is doing a much better job of getting the churches under control with the Faith Based Initiative program, a clearly unconstitutional program.
It would be interesting to see how many of the churches that give up the list are already in that program.
Damn! How'd that pidgeon get in here?
Wow, Kerberos, we actually agree on this one.
Great. I've got a copy...he'll get mine.
And it would be wrong to have Kerry, Clinton, Gore, et. al give political speeches from the pulpit on Sunday morning, carrying a big, fat bible. Plus organizing voter registration lists and get out the vote drives from the church hall. Unless, that is, well, you know. Then we look the other way.
Well, lookie here! I'm not the only one upset with this proposal. REAL conservative church groups are going on record with their displeasure over the proposal.
Baptists Angry at Bush Campaign Tactics:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=544&ncid=703&e=3&u=/ap/20040703/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_campaign_churches
This could cost Bush more votes then it gains. Hmmm.... may be part of the plan to get the remaining conservatives out of the party. Hmmmm......
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