L.A.'s name too divine? 'Angels' reference may mean trouble

Daily News ^ | 6/12/04 | Troy Anderson

[BurbankKarl]

No L.A.? It's no joke.

A strong legal argument can be made that the name of the city of Los Angeles -- even worse its formal name, "The Town of Our Lady the Queen of Angels of the Little Portion" -- violates the constitutional requirement for separation of church and state.

Some constitutional law experts say the American Civil Liberties Union's campaign to remove a small cross from the Los Angeles County seal and similar efforts elsewhere in the country help build a foundation for challenges against communities like San Francisco, San Diego or Santa Barbara.

"That's absolutely right," said Joerg Knipprath, a professor of constitutional law at the Southwestern University School of Law in Los Angeles.

"The cross is a minor symbol on the county seal whereas Los Angeles is the 'City of Angels.' San Clemente, Santa Monica, Sacramento, San Francisco, etc., are all religious references.

"It's far-fetched at this point. I don't think it's going to happen in the next 10 years. But if somebody said 10 or 20 years ago that we were going to challenge the Pledge of Allegiance or this tiny little cross on the county seal, the argument would have been that was far-fetched too."

The First Amendment bans the government from making an "establishment of religion," so Los Angeles' name -- a reference to Mary, the mother of Jesus -- could be construed as illegal.

On those grounds, a federal appeals court ruled in 2002 that the phrase "under God" was impermissible in the Pledge of Allegiance if teachers led schoolchildren in reciting it. That ruling was put on hold until the U.S. Supreme Court hands down a final ruling in the California case, which could come by July.

This month, bowing to the ACLU's Southern California chapter, Los Angeles County supervisors agreed to replace a Christian cross on its 47-year-old official seal with depictions of a mission and indigenous people. The ACLU said it found no fault with the seal of the city of Los Angeles, which is surrounded by a rosary.

Douglas Mirell, an attorney and ACLU board member, said he doesn't have insight into where the next "battleground" will be but he "doesn't see" anyone challenging the name of California cities or counties.

ACLU boards decide whether to challenge crosses and other religious symbols on public property after someone makes a complaint to them.

"The ACLU has been fairly selective about the religious battles it has taken on over the years," Mirell said. "It's obviously a question that divides people, sometimes bitterly. And except in those cases where the law is clear, the ACLU frequently decides its resources are better spent elsewhere."

However, some attorneys and activists expect the ACLU or other groups to bring more challenges against cities and counties across the nation unless they remove crosses and other religious symbols on government seals and public property.

"I think the ACLU may very well bring similar cases in future years all over the country," said Erwin Chemerinsky, a professor of constitutional law at the University of Southern California.

Since 1999, the ACLU, other groups and individuals have been successful in getting crosses on government seals removed in Los Angeles County, Redlands and La Mesa, Calif.; Zion, Ill.; Stow, Ohio; Bernalillo, N.M.; Rolling Meadows, Ill.; and Edmond, Okla. A federal court allowed Austin, Texas, to keep a cross on its seal after a legal challenge.

During the same period, the groups have successfully argued that crosses on public land must be removed -- or forced public entities to give up their ownership of land with crosses -- in Ventura, Simi Valley and the Mojave National Preserve, Calif.

Douglas Kmiec, a constitutional law professor at Pepperdine University School of Law, said that if the past is any guide, he expects the ACLU or others to challenge the mention of religion at graduations and the names of cities with religious identification.

"The logic of the ACLU's reasoning would suggest that Santa Monica should be renamed Monica, San Diego should be renamed Diego and on down the line. Los Angeles is a similar reference to angels. The full title of Los Angeles is a distinctly religious name."

ACLU spokesman Tenoch Flores said the organization only becomes involved in issues when contacted by people who believe there is a problem, and he doesn't expect anyone to challenge the name of Los Angeles or other communities.

"That has got to be one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. Nobody is considering suing to change city names. If anybody were to bring such a suit, it would laughed out of court and rightfully so.

"We don't go around looking for things, but we certainly don't back down in the face of criticism if it's determined that a constitutional issue is at stake."

Bruce Einhorn, chairman of the Anti-Defamation League in Los Angeles, which supported the county supervisors' decision to remove the cross, said the ADL doesn't file lawsuits and doesn't know if there is a good legal argument to challenge the name of Los Angeles.

"It's very hypothetical and distinctively different from very specific symbols of religious faith, whether they be Stars of David, Christian crosses or Islamic crescents," Einhorn said. "We'd have to cross that bridge when it's built. We would rather not stoke fires that haven't been started."

Jay Seculow, a radio host and chief counsel of the American Center for Law and Justice, a Virginia-based public interest law firm founded by religious broadcaster Pat Robertson -- which had offered to defend the Los Angeles County seal in court -- said the fight over the seal is part of a trend.

"(The goal is to) purge all religious observances and references from American public life. Will (opponents) try to get the name of Los Angeles changed? Sure. Why not, if they can get the cross removed from the seal?"

[WinOne4TheGipper]

And San Antonio and St. Louis, and San Augustine, Corpus Christi and most every city in California. Can you imagine the cost to taxpayers?

[WinOne4TheGipper]

No. It's just not living. If it were living, you could get it to say anything you wanted it to.

[Plutarch]

The goal is to purge all religious…references from American public life.

Not religious references really. Just Christian. There is no end to the madness upon which the ACLU embarks.

University of California Seal. Religious, yes, but an Old Testament reference. ACLU will not touch, as it is Judeao-Christian, not Christian, and they wouldn't want to take on the UC constituency, which is too similar to the ACLU's.

Intersection Warning Sign. How long will the cross be tolerated?

New Mexico State Flag. It has a Cross, it is religious, but it isn't Christian. ACLU won't be interested.

The yellow field and red symbol colors are the colors of Spain. First brought to New Mexico by Spanish explorers in 1540. On New Mexico's flag we see a red sun with rays stretching out from it. There are four groups of rays with four rays in each group. This is an ancient sun symbol of a Native American people called the Zia. The Zia believed that the giver of all good gave them gifts in groups of four. These gifts are:

The four directions - north, east, south and west.
The four seasons - spring, summer, fall and winter.
The day - sunrise, noon, evening and night.
Life itself - childhood, youth, middle years and old age.
All of these are bound by a circle of life and love, without a beginning or end.

[FreedomCalls]

I can't say I've ever seen a Constitutional requirement for "separation of church and state.

Is my copy of the Constitution defective?

Apparently it is. The Democrats always use this one instead.

CONSTITUTION (FUNDAMENTAL LAW) OF THE UNION OF SOVIET SOCIALIST REPUBLICS

See specifically Article 52 (it's the one thay always quote):

Article 52. Citizens of the USSR are guaranteed freedom of conscience, that is, the right to profess or not to profess any religion, and to conduct religious worship or atheistic propaganda. Incitement of hostility or hatred on religious grounds is prohibited. In the USSR, the church is separated from the state, and the school from the church.

The sentence preceding that is gradually being adopted here as well under the guise of "hate speech" toward Muslims.

[Military family member]

Yeah, a Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. reference!

Another great Hoosier.

I was invited to join a committee planning our local "Human Rights Day" For my part, I organized a stage reading of "Harrison Bergeron."

Needless to say, they didn't invited me back the next year.

[tioga]

Isn't it the first sign of a dictatorship/totalitarian trend when all historical references to the past are systematically eliminated?

Yes.

[tonyinv]

I'm beginning to wonder if all this legal wrangling has more to do with government contracts than "separation".

Follow the money....

[Military family member]

Right, eliminating the San designation wouldn't remove the reference to the individual nor their place in the Catholic Church.

They would have to be completely renamed.

[Paleo Conservative]

Is my copy of the Constitution defective?

Your copy is fine. It's your vision that is deficient. You're obviously not seeing the emanations and penumbras.

[Paleo Conservative]

They would have to be completely renamed.

I'm sure it would be legal to name them after Communist "heroes" like Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Fonda, Kerry, etc.

[bd476]

This is a Holden Caulfield task, truly it is.

ref. Catcher in the Rye

[usadave]

A strong legal argument can be made that the name of the city of Los Angeles -- even worse its formal name, "The Town of Our Lady the Queen of Angels of the Little Portion" -- violates the constitutional requirement for separation of church and state.

Constitutional requirement for separation of church and state? It amazes me that there are so many ignorant people in this country who apparently have never read the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

[GOPrincess]

And don't forget Sacramento, which derives its name from the Blessed Sacrament...

[Military family member]

Since this must have President Reagan spinning frantically in his grave, perhaps the purpose of this is use that a source of energy.

[Lazamataz]

Let's cut this bulls**t once and for all. Eff the ACLU, seriously. Who cares whay they think.

[Military family member]

PErhaps it would be easier to simply assign numbers to every city in the United States.

[Lazamataz]

You're obviously not seeing the emanations and penumbras.

I stopped seeing all that stuff after I kicked drugs.

[Paleo Conservative]

LOL!

[RansomOttawa]

When we were in Quebed every little town was named for a saint. We even found a St. Adrian, my brother's name, very unusual.

About half of everything with a name in Québec geography is named after a saint or a divine person. My personal favourite place name is one of them: the town of Saint-Louis-du-Ha!-Ha! (No, really.)

And they had all those little toy chapel things by the side of the road, my mother explained what they were, but I've forgotten.

Wayside shrines and crosses. Many of them are monuments to events. Most are territory markers, whether literal or figurative - they were often a means by which French Catholics asserted their cultural identity in a country where they are in the minority. The Catholic Church was very powerful in Québec until the 1960s, when the "Quiet Revolution" secularized the province nearly overnight.

Who knows if Canada is even still like this? They've gone so wacky in other ways.

The religious influence in Québec is still obvious, though the province's Catholicism is now largely "cultural" rather than devout. Though Canada has no formal separation of church and state, in many respects we are more secular than our American friends.

[Military family member]

What about other names in general?

Since many people of all cultures have names that are taken from either in the Bible, the Torah, the Koran,

Muhammad Ali

Jesus Martinez

Juan Dejesus

Abraham Lincoln

Joseph Biden

John Kerry

These people are all named after religious figures; therefore, we need to change each name so any religious reference, regardless of how small, is removed.