Victor Davis Hanson: The New Defeatism, Are we giving up, even as we’re succeeding?

NRO ^ | June 4, 2004 | Victor Davis Hanson

[syriacus]

Four more Americans dead today

We all grieve for the men who die or are severely injured while fighting. Greater love than this no man hath...

Let's also take a look at snippets of actions the 36th Infantry -- the Texas T-Patchers -- participated in...

The landing at Salerno: September, 1943

The British and Americans had held the beachead, and moving reinforcing divisions inland. They [British and Americans] had taken over 13,700 casualties in 11 days of brutal combat. [snip]

This assault force consisted of the green, but well trained 36th Texas National Guard Infantry Division.[snip]

The 36th Infantry bled heavy from fighting an enemy who possessed a plethora of support weapons, and machine guns firing at a rate of over 1,000 rounds a minute from dominating elevated terrain. Regardless, the 36th Infantry Div. managed to clear some enmy positions to create a small enclave for follow on forces. A toehold had been secured in Italy, but a shaky one [snip]

[September 15th, 1943]-- Multiple battalions of German armored vehicles and tanks came streaming into the perimeter letting loose with devastating fire preceded by a severe German artillery bombardment. The American infantry were stunned, and shattered. Survivors came trickling back with cries of desperation, and horror stories.

See also, http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/books/wwii/salerno/sal-dday.htm

[syriacus]

hopeless mess.

Hopeless is...as hopeless does....LIFE Magazine: Americans Are Losing the Victory in Europe January 7, 1946

[no_problema]

the university anti-semites always start their rant with the neo-cons.

[shezza]

Victor Davis Hanson ping! Great insight, as usual.

[Zhangliqun]

"Four more Americans dead today and the insurgents control Fallujah and Hanson, ever the starry eyed Wilsonian, thinks we are "winning." It is advice from people like Hanson which got us into this hopeless mess."

***

Gosh, Austin, I guess you're right! 4 dead just broke our backs! No army in all of world history has ever survived the loss of 10% of a platoon! Time to cut and run! Glad you Buchananites were in a tiny minority back in the early 40's!

(From a guy with a brother in the Army who could get sent at any time...)

[tpaine]

hopespringseternal wrote:

Someone needs to put this on the president's desk

Yes indeed, but it needs editing, so that Bush can get the picture.
-- In his way, Hansen IS laying the mess on the presidents desk:

Our Real Dilemma. We do have a grave problem in this country, but it is not the plan for Iraq, the neoconservatives, or targeting Saddam.
Face it:
This present generation of leaders at home would never have made it to Normandy Beach.
Our groaning and hissing elite indulges itself, while better but forgotten folks risk their lives on our behalf in pretty horrible places.

"Our present generation of leaders" does not exclude the GOP, imo.

[Gritty]

But now as then, the louder voice of defeatism smothers all reason, all perspective, all sense of balance

So true. Also, that same voice has the same goal - the defeat of America!

[lainde]

Bump for the brilliant VDH!!!

[lainde]

Re-Bump and thanks Tolik!

[TEXOKIE]

bttt

[Valin]

We are becoming a crazed culture of cheap criticism and pious moralizing,

BINGO! We have a winner.

[Buck72]

He forgot the part about no WMD. Minor oversight I'm sure.

[beckett]

Hanson's fired up. He sounds good too.

[beckett]

A hopeless mess? You can't be serious!. Good god, man, go back behind your mommy's apron where you belong.

[beckett]

...the insurgents control Fallujah...

By the way, chicken little, who controls the other 8000 towns and villages in Iraq? Or is that just a minor detail not worthy of mention because it might tend to be, heaven forefend, positive news?

And you might profit (though I doubt it) from reading this email from an American Marine outside Fallujah:

As far as Falluja goes, we have not been allowed to get back in there with any real numbers yet. Initially, it was confounding. However, a very interesting dynamic has developed. Since we have stayed out of Falluja and focused elsewhere, the mujahadeen have had their run of the town. As they have had no one to fight, they have turned their criminal instincts on the citizens. The clerics who once were whipping these idiots into a suicidal frenzy are now having to issue Fatwas (holy decrees) admonishing the muj for extortion, rape, murder and kidnapping. It is unfortunate for the "innocent people" of Falluja but the mujahadeen have betrayed themselves as the thugs that they are by brutalizing the civilians. There are, in fact, reports of rape, etc from inside the town. While the muj are thugging away inside the town, we are about 1/2 mile away paying claims, entering into dialogue and contracting jobs. The citizens come outside the city for work and money and are treated like human beings. They go back inside and enter a lawless hell. In short, the muj have done more to show the people what hypocrites they are in a few short weeks than we could have hoped for in a year. The result is more and more targetable intelligence. If we are given the green light, we can really go to town on these guys (no pun intended). However, as much as we would like to do just that, the optimal solution is to empower the Iraqis to take care of it themselves. That is precisely what we are doing.

[syriacus]

Four more Americans dead today

I forgot to mention the statistic my husband often alludes to...deaths due to one day of battle at Antietam .

No one knows the actual number of men who would later die of their wounds or the number of missing who had been killed. If you take a conservative estimate of 20% of the wounded dying of their wounds and 30% of the missing killed, the approximate number of soldiers that died as a result of this battle [Antietam, September 17th, 1862] are 7,640.

[TEXOKIE]

Thank you for the post, Tolik.

This thread has been designated an official Prayer Warrior Field Trip destination!

For those who may wish to hold vigil and support our troops spiritually with other Freepers, you are invited and welcome to drop by the Troop Prayer Threads.

http://freerepublic.com/focus/news/1101474/posts?page=619

[heylady]

We are becoming a crazed culture of cheap criticism and pious moralizing,


This one is for you

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Thanks for the ping. I would have missd this thread without you.

[RobbyS]

Hope you are right. My son, who was extended, is now with foiur weeks of being out of that country. I surely don't want any more flareups, although I think that the Shiites have go the message that stand-up attacks on the US military are just plain stupid.