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Starving Science
Washington Post ^ | May 29, 2004 | staff

Posted on 05/29/2004 6:51:29 AM PDT by liberallarry

THERE IS BOTH good news and bad news in the flurry of reports describing the decline of American preeminence in science. Falling numbers of scientific papers and prizes, as well as the relative drop in levels of funding and students, provide evidence of this decline. The good news is that it means other governments across the globe have begun investing heavily in basic scientific research. It also means that foreign companies have been investing in research and development, creating opportunities that make more people want scientific careers in their countries. More research anywhere creates more possibilities for innovation everywhere.

Yet the reports from the National Science Foundation and elsewhere indicate that the decline is not only relative. It is also absolute: American science is growing weaker, although not across the board. The boom in research and funding for the biological sciences -- including genetics and molecular biology -- has been matched by a decline in funding for, and interest in, physics and math.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government
KEYWORDS: crevolist; nsf; research; science
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To: baltodog
There are so many fascinating aspects of science that one simply cannot believe that we are here, on this planet, in this galaxy, in this universe, because of a random glob of primordial gloop mixing with water and heat.

A theory that would lead to an even more difficult 'science of god'--what is it made of, how does it work, where is it located, how is it measured, how does it interact with matter & light, where did it come from, etc. That, I suppose, could be "proof" of a supergod, and so on and so on and so on. It is a line of reasoning that seems committed to the impossibility if not nonexistence of ultimate explanations.

21 posted on 05/29/2004 8:29:59 AM PDT by beavus (KILL TERRORISTS KILL TERRORISTS KILL TERRORISTS KILL TERRORISTS KILL TERRORISTS KILL TERRORISTS, etc)
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To: CasearianDaoist
Well if they are in such a minority why should they matter and why should one even comment upon them?

In October the science thread were very nearly banned from FR because of the rancor. It only took a handful of posters to do it.

I also know many a libertarian scientist who has had a successful career yet does not believe in government funded science programs. These sort tend to have their own businesses or work in the private sector.

What I said was that some libertarians think that anything not supported by the private sector is not worth doing. What you just said doesn't contradict that at all: obviously if a line of research can be turned into a business, it's not something the government ever had to support anyway. Does that make such a businessman a science-hater? No, and I never claimed so. But there nevertheless are people on FR who are openly hostile to the idea of basic research. And when basic research dies, applied research will eventually follow.

I also find a whiff of anti-religious bigotry in your tone.

Feel free to read in whatever you want to see.

22 posted on 05/29/2004 8:31:27 AM PDT by Physicist
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To: beavus

Everything has a logical explantion...

We, as humans, have an obligation to ourselves to actively pursue the ultimate root of our existance.

I'm not saying that we should just accept God, and leave it at that.

I'm saying that the more we learn about existence as a whole, the more it is realized that we are not here randomly.

Just my thoughts.


23 posted on 05/29/2004 8:35:31 AM PDT by baltodog (There are three kinds of people: Those who can count, and those who can't.)
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To: theFIRMbss
I think it's foolish to believe you can purchase creativity.

The "problem" right now in particle physics is too much creativity. The theories that are out there are brilliant. Absolutely ingenious. But they can't all be right. What we lack are facts to distinguish which work of creative genius is correct, and those facts can be purchased, actually.

24 posted on 05/29/2004 8:37:15 AM PDT by Physicist
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To: CasearianDaoist
"What is really scandalous is that Bush is letting the left paint him as "anti-science" which could not be farther from the case."

Then Bush will direct NASA to service the finest telescope ever built, Hubble, before Hubble becomes useless space junk.

25 posted on 05/29/2004 8:42:06 AM PDT by jpsb (Nominated 1994 "Worst writer on the net")
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To: baltodog
This is problem number 1. Problem number 2 is also category number 2 of "science hating Freepers". This category of Freepers isn't so much of a problem as short sighted corporate management which always cuts research. But that is the company's perogative. And when they've guessed wrong, the market will in fact eat their lunch.
26 posted on 05/29/2004 8:43:26 AM PDT by Ukiapah Heep (Shoes for Industry!)
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To: searchandrecovery

Enviromentalism (which is a pagan religion) has been exchanged for academcic science education in our public schools.


27 posted on 05/29/2004 8:43:40 AM PDT by hedgetrimmer
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To: CasearianDaoist
To say that Clinton supported it it just silly.

But true nevertheless. Clinton's budget included full SSC funding. Could Clinton have fought harder for it? Sure. But he never once fought against it.

I don't take a back seat to anybody in anti-Clintonism, but misrepresenting his record is not helpful.

28 posted on 05/29/2004 8:45:32 AM PDT by Physicist
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To: Consort
Moron particles are key to understanding Information Systems Management Therory.
29 posted on 05/29/2004 8:45:38 AM PDT by Ukiapah Heep (Shoes for Industry!)
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To: searchandrecovery
Prediction - until the nea union is gone nothing will change, no politician has the nerve to do it, leading to continued steady decline in public schools.

So true. Science and math subjects in schools are continuously reduced in content so that kids who don't believe in homework can get passing grades. When I taught math, the soviets, most of europe, and asia all handily beat US students in national test constests. We responded by making kids "feel" better about their learning.

30 posted on 05/29/2004 8:51:23 AM PDT by KC_for_Freedom (Sailing the highways of America, and loving it.)
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To: PatrickHenry; longshadow
Worth a ping?
31 posted on 05/29/2004 8:52:00 AM PDT by Physicist
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To: Physicist
They come in several flavors. The three main types are zealots who think that any investigation of nature constitutes a threat to their religious beliefs, deep-fried libertarians who think that anything not enthusiastically supported by the free market is worth nothing but contempt, and conspiracy addicts who are convinced that an evil cabal of totalitarian scientists and oil company executives is conspiring to keep free energy, antigravity and psychic powers out of the hands of the masses.

Don't blame libertarians for the dominant anti-science popular culture out there. While liberals hate science and want to return us to the Stone Age, the free market has a history of channeling vast oceans of capital into any area of science that is not chained down by regulation. Look at Silicon Valley in the Nineties: information science and technolgy romped because it was the least regulated area of research. Nuclear science, on the other hand, languished during the same period because regulators are actively trying to drive it out of existence.

We often hear the charge that the free market supports only near-term commercial applications. Remember Project Ozma? This was the poky little federal program a generation ago, funded at a million or so a year, that once conducted radio searches for evidence of intelligent civilizations in outer space. Small as Ozma was, it became an object of derision simply because of the far-outness of its mission. So during the Proxmire years, Ozma was quickly cancelled.

It was the free market, not idealistic liberals with government funds, that came to the rescue. Space enthusiasts with money (Paul Allen, Arthur C Clarke) formed a foundation to buy spare time on radiotelescopes and kep an improved version of the search going. Before long the privatized search was producing so much data that a new problem emerged: how to reduce the flood of data and scan it for artificial signals without buying exorbitant amounts of time on supercomputers? The team took another half-formed idea from academia, grid computing, and adapted it to their search for extraterrestrial intelligence: break the data into small segments that can be distributed to small computers logging on over the Internet. In meeting the space buffs' esoteric need, a whole new style of computing came into being. Grid computing is now being applied to a number of commercial problems, such as protein folding to test the effectiveness of new cancer drugs. Could any government program have produced spinoffs like that?

32 posted on 05/29/2004 8:55:59 AM PDT by BlazingArizona
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To: beavus
It's the 'can't-justify-going-to-the-moon-so-long-as-one-child-remains-hungry' crowd

Meanwhile, back at the free-market ranch, one of several competing teams is going to take the X Prize this year. Even the X Prize itself has attracted major new funding, from an Iranian exile entrepreneur. It's now the Ansari X Prize.

33 posted on 05/29/2004 8:59:19 AM PDT by BlazingArizona
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To: KC_for_Freedom; All

We spend more time teaching about "diversity" more than we do on science and math.. That is not good.


34 posted on 05/29/2004 9:01:33 AM PDT by KevinDavis (Let the meek inherit the Earth, the rest of us will explore the stars!)
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To: Physicist
Worth a ping?

Certainly. The war against Intellectual Ludditism is always worth waging.

;-)

35 posted on 05/29/2004 9:05:51 AM PDT by longshadow
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To: KC_for_Freedom
We responded by making kids "feel" better about their learning.

Much easier to lower standards than to raise them. Yep, it's not the results, it's about trying and feeling good, teamwork. Achievement and excellence are hard - embrace and celebrate failure. Oh my, another rant.

36 posted on 05/29/2004 9:13:49 AM PDT by searchandrecovery (Socialist America - diseased and dysfunctional.)
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To: liberallarry

TUCvER bump.


37 posted on 05/29/2004 9:16:19 AM PDT by Junior (Sodomy non sapiens)
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To: Physicist
Where in the Constitution does the federal government get the power to fund this stuff?
38 posted on 05/29/2004 9:21:14 AM PDT by Abcdefg
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To: BlazingArizona
I thought NASA put up the $10 million for the X Prize. Not exactly free-market, but a good start.

Companies are required to apply for federal licenses to fly into space. I wonder what the cost of those licenses is.

39 posted on 05/29/2004 9:23:29 AM PDT by beavus (KILL TERRORISTS KILL TERRORISTS KILL TERRORISTS KILL TERRORISTS KILL TERRORISTS KILL TERRORISTS, etc)
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To: beavus

Maybe they could go to Mexico and loft whatever they want.


40 posted on 05/29/2004 9:25:12 AM PDT by Abcdefg
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