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THE CLASH OF CIVILIZATIONS AND THE GREAT CALIPHATE
Insider Report ^ | Larry Abraham

Posted on 05/22/2004 5:51:40 AM PDT by KeyLargo

THE CLASH OF CIVILIZATIONS AND THE GREAT CALIPHATE By Larry Abraham

As we watch and listen to all the Democrat Party candidates running for the nomination of their party, it is tantamount to enduring the Chinese water torture. The blah, blah, blah goes on and nothing of value comes out except the pain of listening to the same nothingness over and over again. I won’t take the time or space to repeat what you have heard so many, mind numbing times over the past months but what you have not heard is crucial.

I must also fault President Bush and the administration spokesmen for not telling the American people what they really need to know about this “war”. If they don’t do that sometime between now and November it may cost them the election.

It Did Not Start on 9/11

The war we are now facing did not begin on September 11, 2001, nor will it end with the peaceful transition to civilian authorities in Iraq, whenever that may be. In fact, Iraq is but a footnote in the bigger context of this encounter, but an important one none the less.

This war is what the Jihadists themselves are calling the “ Third Great Jihad” and are doing so within the framework of a time line which reaches back to the very creation of Islam in the Seventh century and their attempts to recreate the dynamics which gave rise to the religion in the first two hundred years of its existence.

No religion in history grew as fast, in its infancy, than did Islam and the reasons for this growth are not hard to explain when you understand what the world was like at the time of Muhammad’s death in 632 AD. The Western Roman Empire was in ruins and the Eastern Empire was based in Constantinople and trying desperately to keep the power of its early grandeur while transitioning to Christianity as a de facto state religion. The costs to the average person were unbearable as he was being required to meet the constantly rising taxes levied from the state along with the tithes coerced by the Church. What Islam offered was the “carrot or the sword”.

If you became a convert, your taxes were immediately eliminated, as was your tithe. If you didn’t, you faced death. The choice was not hard for most to make, unless you were a very devoted martyr in the making. At the beginning, even the theology was not too hard for most to swallow, considering that both Jewry and Christianity were given their due by the Prophet. There is but one God-Allah, and Muhammad is His Prophet, as was Jesus, and the pre-Christian Jewish prophets of the Torah (old testament). Both were called “children of the book”, the book being the Koran, which replaced both the Old and New testaments for Christians and Jews.

With this practical approach to spreading the “word” Islam grew like wild fire, reaching out from the Saudi Arabian Peninsula in all directions. This early growth is what the Muslims call the “first” great Jihad and it met with little resistance until Charles Martel of France, the father of Charlemagne, stopped them in the battle of Tours in France, after they had firmly established the religion on the Iberian peninsula. This first onslaught against the West continued in various forms and at various times until Islam was finally driven out of Spain in 1492 at the battle of Granada.

The “second great jihad” came with the Ottoman Turks. This empire succeeded in bringing about the downfall of Constantinople as a Christian stronghold and an end to Roman hegemony in all of its forms. The Ottoman Empire was Islam’s most successful expansion of territory even though the religion itself had fractured into warring sects and bitter rivalries with each claiming the ultimate truths in “the ways of the Prophet”. By 1683 the Ottomans had suffered a series of defeats on both land and sea and the final and failed attempt to capture Vienna set the stage for the collapse of any further territorial ambitions and Islam shrunk into various sheikhdoms, emir dominated principalities, and roving tribes of nomads. However, by this time a growing anti-western sentiment, blaming its internal failures on anyone but themselves, was taking hold and setting the stage for a new revival know has Wahhabism which came into full bloom under the House of Saud on the Arabian peninsula shortly before the onset of WWI. It is this Wahhabi version of Islam which has infected the religion itself, now finding adherents in almost all branches and sects, especially the Shiites. What this sect calls for is the complete and total rejection of anything and everything which is not based in the original teachings of The Prophet and it finds its most glaring practice in the policies of the Afgani Taliban or the Shiite practices of the late Ayatollah Khomeini in Iran. Its Ali Pasha (Field Marshall) is now known as Osama bin Laden, the leader of the “third Jihad”.

Jimmy Carter sets the stage

The strategy for this “holy war” did not begin with the planning of the destruction of the World Trade Center. It began with the plans for toppling the Shah of Iran back in the early 1970’s and culminated with his exile in 1979. With his plans and programs to “westernize” his country, along with his close ties to the U.S. and subdued acceptance of the State of Israel, the Shah was the soft target.

Thanks, in large part to the hypocritical and disastrous policies of the Jimmy Carter State Department the revolution was set into motion, the Shah was deposed, his arm forces scattered or murdered and stage one was complete. The Third Jihad now had a base of operations and the oil wealth to support its grand design or what they call the “Great Caliphate”.

The Great Caliphate

What this design calls for is the replacement of all secular leadership in any country with Muslim majorities. This would include, Egypt, Turkey, Pakistan, Indonesia, all the Emirates, Sudan, Tunisia, Libya, Algeria, Morocco, Yemen, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and finally what they call the “occupied territory” Israel.

As a part of this strategy, forces of the jihad will infiltrate governments and the military as a prelude to taking control, once the secular leadership is ousted or assassinated. Such was the case in Lebanon leading to the Syrian occupation and what was attempted in Egypt with the murder of Anwar Sadat, along with the multiple attempts on the lives of Hussein in Jordan, Mubarak of Egypt and Musharraf in Pakistan. Pakistan is a particular prize because of its nuclear weapons.

The long-range strategy of the Third Jihad counts on three strategic goals. 1. The U.S. withdrawing from the region just as it did in Southeast Asia, following Vietnam. 2. Taking control of the oil wealth in the Muslim countries, which would be upwards to 75% of known reserves, and 3. Using nuclear weapons or other WMDs to annihilate Israel. A further outcome of successfully achieving these objectives would be to place the United Nations as the sole arbiter in East/West negotiations.

Evidence of the Bush Administration awareness of this plan is found in the facts that immediately following the 9/11 attack, their first move was to shore up Pakistan and Egypt, believing that these two would be the next targets for al Qaeda while Americans focused on the disaster in New York. The administration also knew that the most important objective was to send a loud and clear message that the U.S. was in the region to stay, not only to shore up our allies but to send a message to the Jihadists. The attack on Afghanistan was necessary to break-up a secure al Qaeda base of operations and put their leadership on the run or in prison. Why Iraq?

The war on Iraq also met a very strategic necessity in that no one knew how much collaboration existed between Saddam Hussein and the master planners of the Third Jihad or his willingness to hand off WMDs to terrorist groups including the PLO in Israel. What was known, were serious indications of on-going collaboration, as Saddam funneled money to families of suicide bombers attacking the Israelis and others in Kuwait.

What the U.S. needed to establish was a significant base of operations smack dab in the middle of the Islamic world, in a location which effectively cut it in half. Iraq was the ideal target for this and a host of other strategic reasons.

Leadership of various anti-American groups both here and abroad understood the vital nature of the Bush initiative and thus launched their demonstrations, world-wide, to “Stop The War”. Failing this, they also laid plans to build a political campaign inside the country, with the War in Iraq as a plebiscite, using a little know politician as the thrust point; Howard Dean. This helps to explain how quickly the Radical Left moved into the Dean campaign with both people and money, creating what the clueless media called the “Dean Phenomenon”.

By building on the left-wing base in the Democrat party and the “Hate Bush” liberals, the campaign has already resulted in a consensus among the aspirants, minus Joe Lieberman, to withdraw the U.S. from Iraq and turn the operation over to the U.N. And, if past is prologue, i.e. Vietnam, once the U.S. leaves it will not go back under any circumstances, possibly even the destruction of Israel.

Should George W. Bush be defeated in November and a new administration come to power we could expect to see the dominoes start to fall in the secular Islamic countries and The Clash of Civilizations would then become a life changing event in all of our lives.

What surprised the Jihadists following the 9/11 attack was how American sentiment mobilized around the president and a profound sense of patriotism spread across the country They were not expecting this reaction, based on what had happened in the past, nor were they expecting the determined resolve of the President himself. I believe that this is one of the reasons we have not had any further attacks within our borders. They are content to wait, just as one of their tactical mentors, V.I. Lenin admonished…”two steps forward, one step back”.

A couple of additional events serve as valuable footnotes to the current circumstances we face: the destruction of the human assets factor of the CIA during the Carter presidency, presided over by the late Senator Frank Church and Carter’s CIA Director, Admiral Stansfield Turner. This fact has plagued our intelligence agencies right up to this very day with consequences which are now obvious. Jimmy Carter is the one man who must bear the bulk of the responsibility for setting the stage of the Third Jihad. Americans should find little comfort in how the Democrat contenders constantly seek the “advice and counsel” of this despicable little hypocrite who now prances around with his Nobel Prize, while attacking President Bush with almost as much venom as his fellow Nobel Laureate, Yassir Arafat.

Lastly, we should not expect to see any meaningful cooperation from Western Europe, especially the French.

Since failing to protect their own interests in Algeria by turning the country over to the first of the Arab terrorists, Amid Ben Bella, the country itself is now occupied by Islamic immigrants totally twenty percent of the population. We are in the battle of our lives which will go on for many years possibly even generations. If we fail to understand what we are facing or falter in the challenge of “knowing our enemy” the results will be catastrophic.

PART II (May 1, 2004)

Since writing the above, we have witnessed some frightening evidence in support of our hypothesis both internally and in other parts of the world.

The al Qaeda bombing in Madrid has emboldened our enemy into believing it can use terror as an instrument for democratic regime change. Based on what happened there, they may be right.

Kerry and bin Laden on the same page

John Kerry and other leaders of his party constantly refer to the United States as “acting unilaterally.” They give no credit whatsoever to countries like Great Britain, Poland, Italy, Australia or even tiny Honduras for putting their limited armed forces in harm’s way to support the U.S. led coalition in Iraq. It is little wonder that some are considering doing what Spain has done—pulling out. The leaders in these countries have spent considerable political capital in this effort, and have little to show for it as it relates to fostering good will with the American public. Couple that fact with Osama bin Ladin’s latest offer of withholding attacks on those who “quit” the coalition and you have all the elements for a Democrat party fostered “self-fulfilling prophecy” where the U.S. will be totally alone in the pacification of Iraq. John Kerry and the Bush critics persist in the “lie” of the U.S. going it “alone” in Iraq but Osama bin Laden knows differently and will use the Kerry rhetoric to help isolate the U.S. The terrorists now see themselves as political “king-makers”. They may be right.

Another aspect of the “anti-Bush” political axis is how both his political enemies and the main stream media take ghoulish delight in “the body count,” just as they did in the later days of Vietnam. Oh sure, they pay incidental homage to the memory of the young Americans who gave their lives in the greatest threat this country has ever faced, but they do so with all the sincerity of Madonna making a vow of chastity. As the body bags grow in number, they believe, so grows their political prospects. They may be right.

If the Bush administration is further weakened in the months leading up to the November elections, we will witness a heightened al Qaeda offensive in all parts of the world, including our own country, and especially in Iraq and nations surrounding it ,i.e., Pakistan, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and Egypt. Events within the past few days in Jordan not only make this argument but also point to the possibility of “what happened to the WMDs.” Iran and Syria are daily growing more overt and bold in their support of insurgents within Iraq, believing that Bush has been so hurt by internal politics that he is powerless to act against them in any meaningful way. They may be right.

The Leftwing initiative, Political Correctness and Our Will to Win

Within our own country we are witnessing and almost insane application of “political correctness.” As the barbarism of radical Islam grows more apparent in the streets of the Middle East from Gaza to Basra, we see a cultural suicide taking place within our own schools and communities.

Our children are being taught from the Koran, our professors are preaching intifadah in their class rooms, and Muslim “call to prayer” loud speakers are blaring out from city halls. The more precarious our very existence becomes, the more our liberal brethren embrace their enemies. It is a Stockholm Syndrome which can only lead to the recruitment of young Muslims who will be willing to duplicate in the West what their co-religionists are doing in the streets of Israel and the market places of Baghdad. The liberal P.C. crowd say nothing about the silence of the Muslim religious leadership as it relates to the carnage of innocents but couldn’t speak out fast enough against the inspiration supplied to tens of millions of Christians by Mel Gibson’s The Passion of the Christ. They were put off by the movie’s “violence” and its alleged “fostering of anti-Semitism”. Movies must represent their “reality” as the real thing moves them not at all. Among liberal Jews in America, hatred of George W. Bush is only surpassed by their contempt for Ariel Sharon…Let them explain it, I am at a total loss to do so. Maybe they just miss seeing Bill Clinton smooching Yassir Arafat in the White House Rose Garden.

The “Reverend” Jesse Jackson is now calling the U.S. “guilty of crimes against humanity” as he sets out to mobilize the non-Islamic Left. None of the Democrat leadership says a word in opposition to Jackson’s treason or Hillary’s attacks on the President and U.S. policy in an Arabic newspaper, while in London. You can bet that al Jezeera didn’t miss a beat in their reporting of both events.

The campaign takes its toll

The campaign is seriously hurting Mr. Bush’s leadership role in the War on Terror. While ducking every new book critical of his initiative or trying to counter the partisan nitpicking of the 9/11 Commission, he has persisted in the misbegotten insistence of “installing democracy” in Iraq. Our purpose for being in that beleaguered country should be restricted to one purpose and one purpose only, to stop the expansion of The Third Jihad and provide a base for doing same in the neighboring areas. This can be done by sealing the borders, attacking anything that moves in violation of same and by making it clear to Syria and Iran that any participation on their part will be considered an “act of war”. Let the country be governed by the local tribes, Shiite in the south, Sunni in the central and Kurds in the north with a U.S. pro consul overseeing the military. Oil revenues could be spilt by population allocation. How about installing a Republic…it worked pretty well here with diverse populations.

The very idea that we should spend our sons and daughters blood or our tax dollars on trying to building a “democracy” in the region which has neither a history nor a desire for such, is sheer nonsense. The very essence of Islamic teaching speaks directly against this principle. Continuing on the current path can only result in fostering greater hatred for the “Great Satan”. Force is the only thing which is respected in that part of the world and this force need not be tied to “reform”. I suggest Mr. Rumsfled acquaint himself with a copy of Julius Caesar’s Gallic Wars and Sun Tsu’s Art of War. All the tactics and strategies necessary to subdue the Iraqi insurgents can be found in those two military gems.

Please not the UN

Bringing the U.N. to the party will only compound the problem without adding any accountability. The U.N. has been accused of many things over the years, but being a “democratic” institution has never been one of them. Just the latest scandal of the “Oil for Food” program should provide any thinking person with all the evidence they need to keep the U.N. at bay. But this doesn’t seem to bother the likes of the John Kerry’s of the world who prattle on as if the scam doesn’t even exist.

Just one example will make my case; the UN mandate in Israel, which has been in place since 1948. One more salient point needs to be made on this subject. There is no such thing as “The International Community.” There are only individual countries, each with its own agenda which is always self serving. The myth of a higher level of “moral authority” coming out of the UN as been one of the greater lies of the past half century, but it is a lie which persists in spite of a bloody record of hypocrisy, graft, genocide and “perpetual war for perpetual peace.” I have a suggestion for the 9/11 Commission:.Why don’t they look into what the UN was doing before the attack on the World Trade Center? If they do, they will find that exactly one week before, the UN was holding a Conference on Racism in Durbin, South Africa where the delegates voted overwhelmingly to condemn Israel, as “racist and terrorist.” The U.S., Canadian and Israeli delegates walked out in disgust. Nary a word was uttered about Saddam Hussein, al Qaeda, or the Taliban, to say nothing of what was happening in Rwanda while they crunched caviar on toast and washed it down with vintage Champaign. Genocide does not qualify as “racism” according to the UN “morality.” Neither we nor the world needs the UN to muck up what is already a very delicate situation. If given proper leadership every Middle Eastern country named above will throw in with the Coalition, for if they don’t they will be the next targets of the Third Great Jihad and the Great Caliphate. Pakistan is already showing the leadership which others will follow. What do you think moved Kadahaffi to cozy up to the U.S. and Great Britain? He fears the Jihadist more than he hates us.

Evil Does Exist

Our current crises, in meeting the threat of the Third Jihad, is one more example of how most Americans simply refuse to believe there is evil in this world and are willing to grant moral equivalence on any human action. Unless the crime is personalized such as in the case of Lacy Peterson, we lose interest quickly and become bored or at least not involved.

To try and understand what we are facing, look into the eyes of your son or grandson and try to fathom a mind which would take pride in strapping a bomb to his body and sending him out to kill himself and countless innocent people. Or in the case of your daughter or grand daughter, try to imagine a religion which commands you to mutilate her vagina to destroy her sex drive or demands you to stone her to death if she has sexual relations with a man other than of your choosing.

If you can comprehend these facts both intellectually and emotionally, then you will start to understand what we are facing in the months and years ahead, both at home and abroad.

The radicals of Islam will stop at nothing to destroy us and all we stand for. They see this war as their “entry to paradise” and a release from the miserable existence they have built for themselves within the confines of an evil and perverse religion. The Jihadist are NOT like us, nor most of their fellow Muslims. But, like terrorists everywhere they have silenced any criticisms from fellow Muslims through threat and intimidation and have, with the help of the ‘useful idiots” in the West, “created the appearance of popular support”.

If we are incapable of understanding these realities and acting accordingly, within the life time of everyone who reads these words, we will see our cherished way of like cease to exist and chaos become our lot. The Clash of Civilizations is now reaching out and touching all of us. May God grant us the wisdom and the courage to meet the challenge.

I respectfully dedicate the above to the memory of Pat Tillman and his 872 comrades who by their courage and willing sacrifice set an example for every American. May we be worthy of their “greatest love…”


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: clashofcivilizations; jihad
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To: Austin Willard Wright

I'm anti-bigot.

Thanks for your concern....but I'm not lonely.


101 posted on 05/25/2004 9:39:54 AM PDT by nuconvert ("America will never be intimidated by thugs and assassins." ( Azadi baraye Iran)
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To: KeyLargo

bump to read later


102 posted on 05/25/2004 10:46:45 AM PDT by OldCorps
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Here in FR, we acknowledge the source of the information posted,

Thanks for taking care of that for me.

and those who knowingly take credit for the work of others are shunned.

Good thing I didn't do that then. But what happens when people post things that are utterly, completely, bass-ackward? Next up on FR- "Not all Dogs are Cats, but all Marsupials are Reptiles."

What you did, can be interpreted as plagiarism.

Only by idiots.

And I don't really care what they think.

103 posted on 05/25/2004 11:15:21 AM PDT by fourdeuce82d
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To: Luis Gonzalez

you still here? Lol


104 posted on 05/25/2004 11:22:14 AM PDT by nuconvert ("America will never be intimidated by thugs and assassins." ( Azadi baraye Iran)
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To: fourdeuce82d
"But what happens when people post things that are utterly, completely, bass-ackward?"

Well, the mature ones acknowledge their mistake and go on.

Which is what I did, and you haven't.

105 posted on 05/25/2004 12:20:14 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez (Sin Pátria, pero sin amo.)
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To: wingman1

Luis,

Here is the response I received from Mr. Abraham:

"Tom:


Whabbism has effected all branches of Islam but seems to find the most adherants in the Shite since the Ayatollah Khomeni.
It also has a younger following in the Sunni.



I hope the articles have a good reach on your web site.



All the best
Larry Abraham, Editor
Insider Report "


106 posted on 05/25/2004 3:52:17 PM PDT by wingman1 (University of Vietnam '70)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
"...they don't have ANYONE espousing OT\Torah requirements to enforce death penalty religeous mores or to lay waste and beget misery upon non Judaic peoples."

So, the best thing about the Jews that you can say is that they are willingly not following God's commands?

Come on Luis, That's mighty disingenuous of you and off topic too. For whatever it's worth, Jews aren't massacring people at the behest of God now days and you can do better than a cheap topic change like that...

"Face it, The Koran and the Hadiths and apologia of Islam ACTIVELY promote the violent conversion of non-believers"

Not at all. The version of Islam being actively promoted by so-called "fundamentalist" Muslims does, but not mainstream Islam, otherwise, we'd be fighting a whole lot more people than we are now.

"...there are AT LEAST 10-15% of it's ~1.2 billion followers willing to accept as "in stone" those passages."

Well, that leaves 85-90% who DO NOT!

I'm only talking about those who are pursuing the harassment of infidels with that. There is a HELL of a lot higher percentage mutilating women among other lesser things...

"Islam as it stands is a blood and death cult."

According to your own words, 85-90% of Islam does not practice the religion as a blood and death cult. Make up your mind, is it Islam, or is it the 10-15% radicals who are the enemy?

Islam is in the end, because you never know if those currently "peacefull muslims" won't jump off the fence once they roll up a few more victories like Spain or another 9-11...

"For ~1300 years this has not changed."

Where were the Fundamentalist Islamic terrorists in the 1930's? The 1950's?

How about fighting with the Nazi's or running rampant in India? Dude, crack a freakin' history book...

Study the Koran? by Daniel Pipes New York Sun January 20, 2004

Daniel Pipes is full of crap. I reiterate, as long as their religeous texts plainly espouse the forced conversion, murder, rape, enslavement, and taxation of non-believers we are, as far as I'm concerned, at war with ISLAM. hints at what might come next.

BTW, while we're on the subject, why don't you try to explain why something like 85+% of all current conflicts on the globe are muslims VS other people and instigated by the muslims???

I'll leave you with a few passages...

3.[4.101] And when you journey in the earth, there is no blame on you if you shorten the prayer, if you fear that those who disbelieve will cause you distress, surely the unbelievers are your open enemy.

[4.144] O you who believe! do not take the unbelievers for friends rather than the believers; do you desire that you should give to Allah a manifest proof against yourselves?

3.[60.13] O you who believe! do not make friends with a people with whom Allah is wroth; indeed they despair of the hereafter as the unbelievers despair of those in tombs.

1.[9.5] So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

2.[4.89] They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.

1.[8.12] When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.

Get the picture?

107 posted on 05/25/2004 6:18:41 PM PDT by Axenolith
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To: Axenolith
You are an aparatchik to them who would engulf this world in a global clash of religions.

You spout the very same parsed bits of the Qur'an that terrorists spout to justify their hatred, only you spout them out to justify yours.

Like the 85% of Muslims who do not follow the radicals, the 90% of Christians who don't adhere to your hatred will prevail, leaving all Jihadists, you included, in the dust bin of history.

You will never understand the point I made by quoting Deuteronomy, never in a lifetime will you understand it.
108 posted on 05/25/2004 7:25:53 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez (Sin Pátria, pero sin amo.)
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To: Axenolith
"BTW, while we're on the subject, why don't you try to explain why something like 85+% of all current conflicts on the globe are muslims VS other people and instigated by the muslims???"

Should we debate why 100% of World Wars involved Germany?

109 posted on 05/25/2004 7:27:21 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez (Sin Pátria, pero sin amo.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Ah, the feeble minded return with the Ad Hominem in the absence of any meaningfull response...

Good work (NOT) loser. Come back when your ready to address the actual points of my post...

I'll believe the sincerity of the "85% peacefull muslims" when they've gotten that council together and removed the calls for blood from their holy book and I see them marching in the streets against Osama, Al Jazeera, Yasser Arafat, et. al.

Currently the ones I'm actually willing to accept at face value are, ironically, the Iranian masses. Their religious leaders prepare to sacrifice them soon though on the alter of allah, by aquiring the bomb to attack Israel.

modify the religion, by force if necessary, and save the people.

110 posted on 05/25/2004 7:51:58 PM PDT by Axenolith
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To: Axenolith
"...modify the religion, by force if necessary..."

Usama bin Laden couldn't have said it any better.

111 posted on 05/25/2004 7:54:25 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez (Sin Pátria, pero sin amo.)
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To: Axenolith
"Ah, the feeble minded return with the Ad Hominem in the absence of any meaningful response..."

LOL!!!

That's your best?

You are an aparatchik, embrace the role that you so joyfully carry out.

You're no different than "they" are.

"...modify the religion, by force if necessary, and save the people."

Yeah...kill them if you have to, as long as you save them.

112 posted on 05/25/2004 7:58:09 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez (Sin Pátria, pero sin amo.)
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To: KeyLargo

Bump for a later read.


113 posted on 05/25/2004 7:59:13 PM PDT by SuziQ
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Which is what I did, and you haven't.

fair enough. I was a jerk to be so rude. Actually, given that most folks don't even know the difference between shia, sunni, and sundaes...it wasn't that big a goof.

Sometimes my irritation at non-freerepublic stuff spills over into this forum, and I try to beat up on people to make up for my frustrations in the real world. I'm sorry. I was rude, for no reason. Twice actually.

I apologize, and will try not to do it again. I'll go kick my dog instead. *grin*

114 posted on 05/25/2004 8:09:38 PM PDT by fourdeuce82d
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Man, you SUCK at debate. What the hell does either world war or Germany (aside from moslems throwing their lot in with the forces of darkness in WWII) have to do with the fact that Islam repeatedly attacks people of other beliefs and is responsible for nearly ALL major conflicts today?

Who's practicing institutional slavery now?
a) Barney the Dinosaur
b) Oppressive white culture
c) McDonalds
d) Islamic countries

What religions precepts are being followed in the countries that practice forced sexual mutilation on girls?
a) Jehovah's Witnesses
b) Unitarians
c) Catholics
d) Islam

Whose followers strap bombs onto their children and send them out to slaughter themselves and other children?
a) Islam
b) Mormons
c) Breath-Airians
d) Druids

What religions followers keep sales of Mein Kampf flowing briskly 59 years after the authors death?(#6 not to long ago in the palestinian territories)
a) Hindu
b) Christians
c) Islam
d) Animists

Whenever you see a movie of a head getting sawed off of a living human on the internet, what is the religion of the people doing the wet work?
a) Zoroastrian
b) Islam
c) Shinto
d) Christian

TBC...

115 posted on 05/25/2004 8:20:47 PM PDT by Axenolith
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To: wingman1
Whabbism has effected all branches of Islam but seems to find the most adherants in the Shite since the Ayatollah Khomeni. It also has a younger following in the Sunni.

Is English this guy's native language?

Muhammad ibn Abd al Wahhab, the founder of this particular strain of islam, was not a shia. His followers hate shiites. They think shiites are...$hit.

that is not to suggest the two groups would never work together- S. Hussein gave sanctuary to the A. Khomenie in the 70s, before going to war against iran during the most of the 80s. similarly, molotov/ribbentrop signed an accord before barbarosa.

But if we're going to post stuff about these issues...it might be helpful to get our facts straight- google a bit first.

116 posted on 05/25/2004 9:02:22 PM PDT by fourdeuce82d
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To: maryz
The article's title refers to what the muslim world refers to the "Great Caliphate" - the power and territory and controlled peoples under Islam which reached its peak in the 15th Century.

That's the world the jihadists and knuckleheads with bombs are intent on regaining.

My guess is that the author figured that everybody already knew that...

117 posted on 05/26/2004 3:21:55 AM PDT by USMCVet
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To: fourdeuce82d

"Is English this guy's native language?"

What's so hard to understand? I appreciate the author for taking some time to respond and to clarify (which I feel he did) his position.

On another note, your sig shows your MOS as 11c (4.2) and that you were with the 82nd? Am I right? If so, Welcome Home.

I helped hump an 81 a long time ago.


118 posted on 05/26/2004 4:13:33 AM PDT by wingman1 (University of Vietnam '70)
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To: wingman1
Am I right? If so, Welcome Home. I helped hump an 81 a long time ago.

yeppers- bunch of us around here- prodigal son was 11c, never dem was actually my fdc...small world.

119 posted on 05/26/2004 5:54:14 AM PDT by fourdeuce82d
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To: Axenolith
I suck at debate?

You fail at critical thinking.

At any given point in the history of mankind, one nation or another, or even one religion or another, have been at the central point of all wars.

Germany has been the center for the two major conflicts of the 20th Century for example, but we've never truly believed that the German people at large were inherently evil, we've always been able to focus on the fact that an idea was at fault.

In today's world, that idea is extremist fundamentalist Islam.

Extremist fundamentalist Islam is not so much a religion waging war, but more of a movement using religion and ignorance as tools to advance a cause. That cause is geopolitical in nature; an attempt at stopping the secularization of the Islamic world.

Why did the Jews stop following the clearly-stated commands of Deuteronomy and other parts of the Torah/Old Testament?

Their diaspora took them to places where stoning an unmarried woman because no proof of her virginity could be found was considered barbaric.

Islam fears the sort of secularization experienced by the Jews, because it takes power away from the clergy.

2 Chronicles 15:12-13 And they entered into a covenant to seek the LORD God of their fathers with all their heart and with all their soul; That whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.

Psalms 144:1-2 Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle. He is my loving God and my fortress, my stronghold and my deliverer, my shield, in whom I take refuge, who subdues peoples under me.


120 posted on 05/26/2004 6:42:47 AM PDT by Luis Gonzalez (Sin Pátria, pero sin amo.)
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