Young people turn against their parents' 'church lite'

Lexington Herald Leader ^ | 5/16/04 | John Leland

[qam1]

VIEW MEGACHURCHES AS SLICK, IMPERSONAL

For evidence of generational upheaval these days, you might skip over the usual suspects -- sex, drugs, rock 'n' roll -- and consider instead Christianity.

Two decades after baby boomers invented the suburban megachurch, which removed crosses or stained-glass images of Jesus in favor of neutral environments, their children are now wearing "Jesus Is My Homeboy" T-shirts.

As mainline churches scramble to retain young people, these worshippers have gained attention by-creating alternative churches in coffee bars and warehouses and publishing new magazines and Bibles that come on as anything but church.

But does a T-shirt really serve the faith? And if religion is our link to the timeless, what does it mean that young Christians replace their parents' practices?

The movement "has a noble side," said Michael Novak, the conservative theologian at the American Enterprise Institute. He remembers how much he enjoyed the Christian comic books of his youth. He compared the alt-evangelicals to missionaries, who "feel they've learned something valuable from their faith and want to share it" using the native language.

For many in this generation, the worship style of their parents feels impersonal: not bigger than their daily, media-intensified lives, but smaller. Their search is for unfiltered religious ex-perience.

"My generation is discontented with dead religion," said Cameron Strang, 28, founder of Relevant Media, which produces Christian books, a Web site and Relevant magazine, a stylish 70,000-circulation bimonthly that addresses topics like body piercing, celibacy, extreme prayer, punk rock and God.

Strang, a graduate of Oral Roberts University, is in some ways a model alt-evangelical, with two earrings, a shaved head and beard. He left a megachurch, he said, because he felt no community at the slick services. Now he attends an alternative church in a school gym, with intimate groups and basketball after services.

This stylistic shift is critical, said Lee Rabe, pastor at Threads, an alternative, or "emerging," church in Kalamazoo, Mich. Where megachurches reached out to baby boomers turned off by church, the younger generation often has no experience with religion. They need to be beguiled, not assuaged, Rabe said.

"The deity-free 'church lite' of the megachurches, that's the last thing these people want," he said. "They want to talk about God. It's hard-core, not in a fire and brimstone way, but it has to be raw, real."

The changes are often more stylistic than doctrinal. Many alt-evangelicals espouse conservative theology, but reject the censure of some churches. Strang sees this as a blueprint for an evangelical left.

"We're all sinners," he said. "Your sin isn't any worse than my sin. We don't say, 'Stop the horrible gays.' You want to reach them, you don't want to protest them. If we looked like goody-two-shoes, clean cut, we couldn't have a conversation with our lesbian friend at the coffee shop, because she couldn't relate."

Increasingly, this conversation borrows from pop culture, in the same way that hip secular culture borrows the cabala and the cross.

Critics say this engagement comes at a price. Timothy Williams, 48, a pastor at Sound Doctrine Ministries, a non-denominational church in Enumclaw, Wash., sees flirtation with pop culture as a capitulation to sin. "More and more, the church is seeking to be like the world around it," said Williams, who has written a pamphlet denouncing Christian rock. "But the Bible says that anyone who becomes a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God. If we're going to be relevant or on the world's level to draw people, we might as well give free beer in the parking lot."

But evangelicals have long used pop culture and new technology to spread their gospel, said Stephen Prothero, chairman of the religion department at Boston University.

Christian tracts handed out in the 19th century were one of the first mass media. In the 1930s, the evangelist Charles Fuller used the new medium of radio to broadcast his sermons. Four decades later, the Jesus movement of the 1970s adopted the vibe of the 1960s counterculture.

The actor Stephen Baldwin, a born-again Christian, has just directed a DVD called Livin' It, pairing extreme sports with faith testimony, from which he hopes to spin skate Bibles, clothing, CDs and Bible-study guides, all tied to a non-profit youth ministry.

"This could be the first get-down rock 'n' roll, cool Christian brand," he said.

The underlying romance is familiar from any Nirvana video: the Christian as rebel or outsider, misunderstood, struggling against a world of conformity, commercialism and manufactured pleasures.

"It's a countercultural thing," said Tim Lucas, 33, pastor of an emerging ministry called Liquid in Basking Ridge, N.J. On a recent Sunday, Lucas wore a Hawaiian shirt and used images from The Lord of the Rings movies and a clip from Amadeus in a sermon about the book of First Samuel.

"They identify with being an underground movement, which is what Christianity was in the beginning," Lucas said of his congregation. "Living out a life with Christ at the center draws a lot of flak. Not a lot of people will celebrate that."

The movement away from middle-of-the-road theology and worship mirrors a trend on college campuses, where growing numbers of students claim either no religion or strong religious affiliation, with the middle ground shrinking, said Alexander Astin, director of the Higher Education Research Institute at UCLA, which last year completed a national study of students' beliefs.

In the survey, more than 70 percent of students said they prayed, discussed religion or spirituality with friends, found religion personally helpful and gained spiritual strength by trusting in a higher power.

[RnMomof7]

You know.... I'm sure there are small churches out there that show movies and don't pay anything. But the big ones don't because they operate on multi-million dollar budgets and understand the potential damage. (mine included)
The movement is about packaging worship. I think it's just like the money changers in the temple

Yep !

I belonged to a church that bought the Saddelback program . I hated it from the get go, But that pastor wanted church growth , he wanted the biggest church in his denominational district.

We started the targeted music and the sermons and the loaves of bread to people that attended . The denominational membership classes were dropped for the saddelback program

But KJ , God will not be mocked, first our wonderful music ministry had a serious break up (that was the greatest outreach tool) , then there were personality conflicts , and strife in the Pastors staff... Before you knew it a church that had been over 200 when I first went was under 40 regulars .

I do not know the current state, but God took care of the sin that was in that desire .

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

It is my personal belief that you are both right. Regardless, what difference does it make? Completely understanding the theology of redemption cannot save you or damn you to hell. You agree on who God is, who man is, who Jesus is, what salvation is and what sin is....all the essential things. You believe in prayer and repentance. You believe in worship and holy living. It's not as though this debate about free will and election is new. You won't change each other.

[kjam22]

:) Yeah I know. She and I have had these discussions before, several years back. In fact, I remember her before she became a hardened ole calvinist :)

I was a little surprised that she spoke so poorly of my "hope" this time around. I think my hope in Christ puts me in good company if you read the new testament. What she would negatively refer to as "hope"... I see as salvation :)

Gotta go for this evening. Enjoyed the dialogue with everybody. Even you mom :) Later

[Buggman]

And you can't tell a deaf Chinaman anything by whispering in French.

GREAT line. Hope you don't mind me stealing it for my tagline--my old one was a bit played out.

And your point is right on the money.

To Kjam22: When the earliest Christians left Jerusalem to preach to the world, do you think they insisted on speaking only Aramaic because "that's what the Lord spoke, and that's good enough for me"? Or did they instead speak Greek, Latin, Arabic, or whatever the local language was?

This is no different. Trying to preach to the youth in America using technical Biblical terms and formal theology is as good as preaching in Hebrew. If you want to get a message across, you have to explain it in terms that mean something to the hearer.

For example, if I talk about God being a Heavenly Father to a girl who has never known anything but abuse from the father-figures in her life, do you think that she'll really know what I mean? You may argue, "But everyone knows what a father is." Sure, the dictionary definition, but what about the gut-level knowledge that comes from experience? Or how do you explain the need for a sacrifice to atone for sin to a person to whom relativism is the catchphrase of the day?

That's not saying that you water-down the message of the Gospel, or that you happily engage in a sinful lifestyle yourself--and I don't see that being expoused in the above article. What it does mean is that you sometimes have to learn new ways to explain the Gospel, or take on some cultural attributes that the Bible is silent on in order to win trust.

Most of the people in today's youth that I know who most need the Gospel shy away from anything Churchian--and not without good reason, in most cases. Even those who don't have a "screwed by the Christians" story tend to be cynical and/or gunshy. "Dressing down"--wearing an earring, growing a goatee, whatever--can often lower barriers and get a characatured idea of what a Christian is out of the way. The outward appearance and the lingo isn't Christianity; it's the changed lives and the love of Christ that we're supposed to be bringing to people.

Paul became a Greek in his outward appearance to open up doors to the Greeks. Hudson Taylor reached the Chinese by dressing and speaking as a native Chinese. These kids are reaching their fellow young people by dressing and speaking Gen-Xer--what's the difference?

It's true that in the end, no one will be in Hell because they just weren't preached to the right way. It's also true that if you're not willing to share the Gospel with someone in their own language, He'll find someone else who is.

[Ethan_Allen]

"In your list of scriptures you may also want to include:
Proverbs 1:7 "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge; Fools despise wisdom and instruction." "http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Pro/1/7.html
______________________________________________________

Thank you! It's been near the top of my list for a long time, and I usually use it to expose the churches [and church-goers], who have replaced Christ crucified and the Israel of God [ http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Isa/65/15.html
http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Gal/Gal006.html#16
http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Gal/6/16.html ] with the worship of Judaism and the Zionist state.

Tts 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth. *** http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Tts/1/14.html

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Rom/2/28.html

Rom 2:29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.

Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Col/2/11.html

Old Jerusalem/Old Covenant
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Gal/4/25.html

New Jerusalem/New Covenant:

http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Rev/3/12.html
http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Rev/21/2.html

This is only part of the story; there's a whole lot more to it. I've pointed it out more than once, and I won't bore you with it. IMHO, the 'mature' church has bigger problems than kids wearing t-shirts declaring [albeit arguably a bit sacrilegiously, that they love God]. The church is blind, apostate, and possibly about to see a major pruning, and a grafting in of new shoots.

'....for [the LORD seeth] not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart. http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/1Sa/16/7.html

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

If you want to get a message across, you have to explain it in terms that mean something to the hearer.

If you are talking about a ministry in prisons or juvenile detention centers I could maybe go along with you a little bit. But we have been talking about ministry in churches, to Christian kids who grew up in church. They are being sold out to this watered down version of Christianity. How can we expect them then to be prepared to pass the truth on to the next generation? Some of the material out there, like Relevant magazine, is like someone above said, pretty much beyond watered down and into being just water.

[Buggman]

Actually, I find that the worst watering down takes place in the suit-and-tie churches. Most of the kids out there like those described in the article tend to be motivated and earnestly want to learn the whole of the Scripture--and more importantly, they want to apply it to their lives in a way that most of the mainline once-a-weekers just don't. I'll grant that they tend to lack wisdom, but hey, they're young.

I could give examples (and in fact I did in my earlier post), but if you're just blocked against the idea of adapting the presentation of a message to a culture, you won't hear them anyway.

[Protagoras]

Glad you liked the line well enough to use it as a tagline. And I love the attribution. :^}

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

Like I said before, I am not totally blocked to the concept. But most of what I have personally witnessed is not Christianity at all. It is a phony, feel-good substitute. It is very possible that we are just talking about two different things. Maybe, maybe not. But I am unimpressed with Relevant, Hollywood Jesus, and other similar stuff. The message is lost in the packaging. Kids these days are not nearly as dumb as everyone seems to think they are. They can understand truth in its purest form, and they can actually enjoy worship and teaching that is not dumbed down for them. They will be exactly what we expect them to be. If we act like they can't learn anything without movies and video games then they will adapt to that expectation. But they are wonderful kids and capable of much more. I think parents and adults in charge often just do not know how to talk and relate to kids, so they cop out with just a bunch of gimicky babysitting style flashy junk. It's how they've raised their kids and it's how they relate to kids at church. I think it is sad.

[Lexinom]

So do I, my friend, so do I.

[Bobby Chang]

Believe me, a praise band can destroy sound equipment. There was much complaint after the new sanctuary was built for that service in our church, and the first thing I've heard is the sound system doesn't have decent acoustics, which means people can't hear the pastor speak from the far end of the facility, and worse yet, the choir can't be heard. Of course most of the attendees don't care for the choir.

I have become one of the anti-track choir members at our church.

And when dancers replaces singers, something's fishy.

[hinckley buzzard]

"Mainline" is a historical term. It has nothing to do with the kind of meaning you are trying to force into it.

[HarleyD]

"IMHO, the 'mature' church has bigger problems than kids wearing t-shirts declaring [albeit arguably a bit sacrilegiously, that they love God]."

This isn't something that says they love God. This is a fashion statement. Next year when this isn't fashionable how many of those kids do you think will be wearing them?

IMHO attitudes of children who wear such clothing and parents attitudes who allow their kids to wear such clothing are symptoms of the problem. There are certain things my wife and I refuse to let our son wear whether to church or out in public. If we can't be trusted with the small things how can we be trusted with larger things.

Parents are to train up children in the way they should walk. We are failing in that responsibility and this is one example.

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

I want to point out something I do think is positive. I watched a video produced by Stephen Baldwin (brother to Alec) that was about a Christian skateboarder. The kid was amazing. All the while he was demonstrating his skills, he was alwo talking about his faith. It was great. But that is very different from using secular movies as "parables" when what you are really doing is advertising for Hollywood and allowing atheists to be church leaders. Also, the skating movie wasn't made for a church audience. It was a general sport interest video, but the guy talking was also a Christian sharing his faith. Now that's an example of taking the gospel message to others appropriately. I am all for that. What I am firmly opposed to is importing secularism and new-age mush into the church.

[RnMomof7]

It is my personal belief that you are both right. Regardless, what difference does it make? Completely understanding the theology of redemption cannot save you or damn you to hell. You agree on who God is, who man is, who Jesus is, what salvation is and what sin is....all the essential things. You believe in prayer and repentance. You believe in worship and holy living. It's not as though this debate about free will and election is new. You won't change each other.

I think KJ knows I consider him a brother in Christ. We do agree on most essentials, but that is not the point, the point is giving God the glory for what he does.

We might actually argue that KJ and I have different Gods as mine is trustworthy and faithful , but the difference is actually I give God all honor and glory for every hair on my head , for every bird that falls and every man that repents.

When I discuss Reform doctrine it is not a who is right..it is to whom do we REALLY give all the glory

[RnMomof7]

I was a little surprised that she spoke so poorly of my "hope" this time around. I think my hope in Christ puts me in good company if you read the new testament. What she would negatively refer to as "hope"... I see as salvation :)

We do all have a blessed hope KJ, but the discussion was focused on is God fickle? I saw nothing in your post to indicate that you did not think he might be

Strongs translates hope this way

"joyful and confident expectation "of eternal salvation

I heard doubt not confident expectation

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

I do not see that KJ is not giving God all the glory. When you say that KJ's God is not trustworthy and faithful, do you consider that you might be offending your "brother in Christ"? You worship the same God with the same attributes, you just define your theological doctrine differently. My question is, so what? God will reveal Himself to all of us in due time. I bet we are all wrong about one thing or another.

[kjam22]

I guess you didn't read the part where I said that it doesn't even take faith to believe anymore, because over time God prooves himself to us.

Anyway... if you followed and I know you did most of my posts yesterday you read about my unhappiness with my church drifting to the left. And you might have read that I was until recently serving as a part time staff member coordinating the musicians. Well anyway... I'm giving you a link to a song that another former part time staff member who coordinated the singers has written with me. We are about to release a CD of original tunes. This song kinda came from some of our frustration with the new "PC" church. It's not really our normal style, but it's pretty tight.

She wrote the words, and me the music. I played all of the instruments and she did the lead vocal.

I think you'll appreciate the song. Just hit play when you get to the site.

Here's the link:

http://www.recordingproject.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=5427

Have a great evening!

[kjam22]

I think the longer mom posts, the more accurate my original description of the hardened calvinists becomes. Even to the point, that if you don't completely disavow any and all of the biblical text that teaches freewill, and then believe in predestination to the degree that she does... you worship a different God than her.

That's where these discussions always go. And the next phase is that we aren't really saved because we don't accept the calvinist doctrine in the manner that they believe.

I made that statement early in this thread and it torqued them that I would even think such. But when it's all said and done, my statement was accurate.

[superloser]

What has happened to our churches?

I stopped attending mass when the tambourines and the rock band arrived. It didn't mesh too well.