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What else is new, its all Bush's fault........

No look at WHY refiners have merged, its been a bad business for many, many years, mandated enviro capital spending, with no return. I didn't seen stories on how the refining industry was hurting when prices were low.....

1 posted on 05/17/2004 5:34:34 AM PDT by machman
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To: machman

It has nothing to do with mergers. It has everything to do with the increase in the price of crude. If the refinery industry has anything to do with it, it's because we have not built a new refinery in this country for more than 15 years.


2 posted on 05/17/2004 5:40:33 AM PDT by Brilliant
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To: machman

Bloomberg is a conundrum: they talk about capitalism while banging the Anti-Bush drum.

All their radio updates include some sort of dig against the President: "Stocks remained stable today, suggesting a continuation of the worst economy since September 2000".

Democrat schills.


3 posted on 05/17/2004 5:40:57 AM PDT by Old Sarge
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To: machman

"ConocoPhillips, which produces a sixth of the nation's gasoline, said its plants are operating at 97 percent of capacity. No new refineries have been built in the U.S. since 1976 because of the difficulty in getting approval to build plants and the cost of construction, said Drevna of the National Petrochemical & Refiners Association".


I suspect the above has far more to do with the supply problem than mergers. I just read an article on the CNN website of all places that said there's currently a $5 to $10 premium on the price of a barrel of oil because of the terrorist problem. Seems to me that mergers don't even come into play as far as gas prices are concerned but that's the best way for this author to try and pin the blame on Bush. What a pile of feces!


4 posted on 05/17/2004 5:42:35 AM PDT by Arkie2
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To: machman

Regardless of who is responsible for the rise in gas prices, the auto manufacturers need to use improved technology so that cars can run efficiently on renewable sources of energy. And the vehicles and energy sources needs to be affordable for every income bracket. Speaking from the perspective of fixed income living, these rising prices - gas, food, medical care - makes my so-called budget look like a piece of Swiss Cheese! Dang, I just paid $1.90 for regular and almost $20 to fill the tank. Haven't had my full measure of caffiene yet so I'm just a tad cranky.


7 posted on 05/17/2004 5:50:03 AM PDT by tob2 (Old Fossil and proud of it!)
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To: machman
The rise in gasoline prices helped refiners generate the highest margins from refining crude oil into gasoline and other fuels in the first quarter since at least 1990. ConocoPhillips, the largest U.S. oil refiner, last month posted its biggest quarterly profit since the 2002 acquisition that formed the company. ChevronTexaco Corp., the second-biggest U.S. oil producer, said earnings rose 33 percent to the highest level since a 2001 merger formed the company. Chevron's first-quarter refining profit doubled.

Exxon Mobil Corp., the second-largest U.S. refiner, on April 29 reported its highest first-quarter refining earnings in 13 years. Valero Energy Corp., the No. 3 U.S. refiner, said on April 28 that profit will almost triple in the current quarter after increased demand for gasoline spurred a 46 percent earnings gain in this year's first three months.

If this is true, then higher crude prices are not all of the problem. Higher crude prices don't make the refining effort less expensive.

8 posted on 05/17/2004 5:54:42 AM PDT by Bryan24
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To: machman
Refineries are a lousy business. Most of the time they register a profit of 5 cents or less per gallon, and there have been years when they actually lose money on each gallon.

They are dangerous, so there is a great deal of legal exposure with every accident, and the government increasingly requires expensive new equipment, for environmental, safety, or the boutique gasoline formulas.

If you were a major oil company, you'd make far more money investing in Treasury Bills than spending it on a refinery on a historical level. That's not true today during this price squeeze, but the price squeeze is the result of years of policies which made refineries a horrible investment.

9 posted on 05/17/2004 6:07:03 AM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: machman

You forgot the barf alert (for the title, not necessarily for the article info)


10 posted on 05/17/2004 6:10:16 AM PDT by CedarDave (May God bless our brave sailors & all who have died serving our country, and comfort their families)
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To: machman

I think this oil price issue has been in the works for a while. Democrats jumped on this issue very early even when gas prices were not that big of a deal. I do believe OPEC and the Middle Eastern nations have been planning this for a while. They cannot stand Bush.


12 posted on 05/17/2004 6:13:46 AM PDT by truthandlife ("Some trust in chariots and some in horses, but we trust in the name of the LORD our God." (Ps 20:7))
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To: machman

It is all the fault of Bush. He just doesn't have enough time to run those refinery's with the war and all.


17 posted on 05/17/2004 6:30:22 AM PDT by Piquaboy
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To: machman

Exactly how does the refineries having to pay $42/barrel make it THEIR fault that gas prices are so high?


19 posted on 05/17/2004 6:31:42 AM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Even if the government took all your earnings, you wouldn't be, in its eyes, a slave.)
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To: machman

Refinery margins have ranged anywhere from $1 - $3 dollars per barrel over the last twenty years. Refiners are hardly to blame when the price of crude has gone up $20 dollars per barrel over the last few years.


20 posted on 05/17/2004 6:36:36 AM PDT by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along)
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To: machman

Nice article by the dnc.


21 posted on 05/17/2004 6:38:00 AM PDT by AxelPaulsenJr (Excellence In Posting Since 1999)
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To: machman
Between 1977 and 2002...U.S. demand for gasoline has grown 27 percent
European gasoline prices are at their highest recorded levels due to demand from the U.S
Demand from Asia has boosted the price of crude oil
World oil demand is rising at its fastest rate since 1988
Gasoline prices have to get well above current levels to think we would see a substantive and mature impact on the economy

So you can expect gas prices to rise well above their current levels in the next year...says Liberallarry, 66.

25 posted on 05/17/2004 7:01:59 AM PDT by liberallarry
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To: machman
[A 'registered Republican' said]``The average guy on the street is getting killed because this administration does not care.''

Only an idiot (or a Democrat Party hack, whether you call yourself a "Republican" or not) would think this: the administration has consistently advocated greater exploration and extraction of our own oil resources in order to keep us from being oil-dependent.

Additonally, the merging of refinery companies proves nothing.

Our increase in oil is due to the increased demand from Asia, China particularly, and due to an inability to refine the crude...OPEC could help by increasing production, but if you don't have the ability to refine the stuff, it won't make a huge difference.

No new refineries have been built in the USA in at least, what, 10 years? That is a huge problem...

I am amazed how fast some people are to point fingers at the current administration. :) Some simple, simple economic lessons are in order for a lot of people. I am hopeful, though: I think more people are "getting it" when it comes to some of these basic economic facts.

26 posted on 05/17/2004 7:03:01 AM PDT by Recovering_Democrat (I'm so glad to no longer be associated with the Party of Dependence on Government!)
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To: machman
That Bush!

Is there nothing bad that he cannot do?

27 posted on 05/17/2004 7:03:40 AM PDT by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
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To: machman

Actually it is really Abe Lincoln's fault. Hey anyone knows that!


28 posted on 05/17/2004 7:09:11 AM PDT by jmaroneps37 ( Kerry's not "one of us": catholicagainstkerry.com. needs your help.)
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To: machman
Mergers? Hell yes!

8 Years of a democrat/enviromental adminstration where the business enviromnet was so hostile not one new refinery has been built in the last 10 yrs!

32 posted on 05/17/2004 7:31:45 AM PDT by TexasCajun
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To: machman
Good catch machman

Something not mentioned, or really understood, is not all the oil in a barrel of oil goes for gasoline. If I remember right, it's only about ten percent of the oil in the barrel is suitable for gasoline production. That means, consumers should be aware of other prices rising as well. Such things as plastics, denim and anything that uses oil in the product.

33 posted on 05/17/2004 7:34:43 AM PDT by Morgan in Denver
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To: machman
ConocoPhillips, which produces a sixth of the nation's gasoline, said its plants are operating at 97 percent of capacity. No new refineries have been built in the U.S. since 1976 because of the difficulty in getting approval to build plants and the cost of construction, said Drevna of the National Petrochemical & Refiners Association.

Looks like a straight demand and supply issue demand is up supply unchanged. What happened in 1976 that resulted in no more refineries being built?

Folks this will get much worse. If refineries are opeating at 97% capacity that means that not much preventative maintenace is goin on. Look for major refinery outages.

34 posted on 05/17/2004 7:35:54 AM PDT by Jimmy Valentine's brother (My other brother's Buford)
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To: machman
B S, the refinery mergers took place under the Clinton administration, not Bush.
36 posted on 05/17/2004 7:40:55 AM PDT by Eva
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