Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

NJ politicians: Catholic Church is seeking too big a role, Senate leader leaves Church
Philly.com | 05.09.04 | Tom Turcol

Posted on 05/09/2004 4:02:12 PM PDT by Coleus

N.J. politicians: Church is seeking too big a role




Inquirer Staff Writer

Roman Catholic politicians in New Jersey, including one who left the church yesterday, are expressing anger at what they say is an attempt by church leaders to force them to decide between their government oaths and their religion.

Elected officials said that escalating demands by the church hierarchy in New Jersey that Gov. McGreevey and others vote in accordance with Catholic doctrine on public issues runs counter to the principle of the separation of church and state.

State Senate Majority Leader Bernard Kenny said he told his pastor yesterday that he had decided to leave the church after 57 years.

Senator Bernard F. Kenney, Jr. (D)

If every faith starts trying to impose their rules on elected officials, democracy is going to be factionalized along religious lines," said Kenny, a Democrat from Hudson County.

Another Catholic Democrat, U.S. Rep. William Pascrell Jr. of Essex County, said he "was not sent to Congress to follow the dictates of the Catholic Church. I have to represent everybody in my district. That's what democracy is all about."

Pascrell and others said the church's position also threatened to resurrect the stigma against Catholics running for office that was erased by President John F. Kennedy's election nearly a half-century ago. During the 1960 campaign, Kennedy and Catholic leaders assured a skeptical public that the church would not influence his decisions as president.

"This is exactly what the Catholic Church said 50 years ago would not happen when Catholic politicians were trying to get elected to office," said Kenny, a former altar boy. "It is a total reversal of the position that enabled Catholics to represent people of all faiths and all backgrounds."

The church's increasingly aggressive stance sent shudders through the ranks of Catholic politicians in a state where the majority of elected officials support abortion rights, as do three-quarters of the voters.

The church ignited a political firestorm in the last few weeks when leading clerics, including the archbishop of Newark, declared that McGreevey and other elected officials should be denied Holy Communion because of their support for abortion rights, embryonic stem-cell research, and other programs that run counter to church doctrine.

As the pressure from top clerics grew, McGreevey said he would abide by the church's wishes and not attempt to receive Communion, though he reasserted his independence from the church in running the state.

"I'm a Catholic and I greatly value my faith and draw great strength from it, but I also have a constitutional obligation as governor," McGreevey said in an interview Friday.

The governor, who faces reelection next year, added: "I'm responsible to eight and a half million citizens who represent diverse faiths and backgrounds."

Unlike McGreevey, Pascrell said he would not submit to the church's directive with regard to the Eucharist. "I will continue receiving Communion - not in defiance but out of conscience. I have nothing to apologize for."

State Sen. Raymond Lesniak, a veteran Democrat from Union County, said that he would follow his church's wishes in New Jersey and that he would drive to New York City to receive Communion.

Lesniak, a former altar boy like many of his colleagues, is honorary chairman of this year's Pulaski Day Parade in New York and has been invited to a ceremonial audience with Pope John Paul II at the Vatican this summer. Yet, he said, he cannot receive Communion in his home state.

"The archbishop of Newark has made it clear that our presence is unwelcome at the altar," Lesniak said.

Kenny said that, at a meeting he arranged this weekend with his pastor, Msgr. Frank Del Prete, of SS. Peter and Paul Church in Hoboken, he asked whether he would be denied Communion because of his support for abortion rights and stem-cell research. Kenny said he was told he would be offered Communion one more time "but that then he would tell me not to come again."

"I will look for other options to express my faith and will probably join another Christian church," Kenny said.

"Under the church's position," he said, "the public could justifiably infer that the act of a public official taking Communion means they were following the directives of the church on policy issues."

A spokesman for the Archdiocese of Newark declined to comment on Kenny's decision.

Lesniak said it was "unconscionable" for Newark Archbishop John J. Myers to condone violating the separation of church and state. The church, he said, "ought to be trying to bring people together, not separate them."

"The last thing we need is a religious war in our own country," said Assemblyman Louis Manzo, a Democrat from Hudson County. "By resurrecting this issue, the church is making it harder for Roman Catholics to overcome the barriers that John Kennedy knocked down almost 50 years ago."

The church's stance was also questioned by U.S. Rep. Frank A. LoBiondo, a Republican Catholic from Vineland.

LoBiondo said the church had every right to aggressively assert its positions on issues, but it should not obligate Catholic politicians to vote a certain way.

Democrats are especially worried because the church has singled out members of their party, including McGreevey and Sen. John Kerry, the Democrats' presumptive presidential candidate.

Pascrell and others questioned why the church was targeting Democrats who support abortion rights while ignoring politicians who vote against church positions on issues such as unjust wars and the death penalty.

Some Catholic politicians said they did not want to be quoted for fear of antagonizing either voters or the church.

Analysts said the church's stance represents a political wild card in a highly urbanized, ethnic state such as New Jersey, where more than of half the voters are Catholic, as are a substantial portion of its local, state and federal officeholders.

New Jersey is one of the nation's most politically moderate states, with polls showing that three-quarters of voters favor abortion rights.

Surveys show that New Jersey Catholics support abortion rights by roughly the same overwhelming proportion, as do a great majority of Catholic officeholders in the state.

Some, however, said that passionate appeals from the pulpit could influence enough Catholics to affect the outcome of close elections.

The Democrats' most immediate concern is Kerry, who is running neck-and-neck with Bush in most public opinion polls. Several of this year's battleground states, including Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois and Michigan, have sizable numbers of Catholic voters.

McGreevey has endured a rocky first term and is considered highly vulnerable in his bid for a second term next year. A concerted challenge by church officials could hurt him in a close race.

McGreevey's landslide election in 2001 was attributed largely to his decision early in the campaign to highlight his views on abortion.

During the campaign, McGreevey's frequent references to his days as an altar boy and his Catholic faith helped him win the Catholic vote by a wide margin, even capturing the support of Catholics from more conservative, blue-collar areas.

"In a close race you can't afford to lose even 5 percent of the Catholic vote in this state," said David Rebovich, director of Political Science at Rider University.

Rebovich said pressure from the church could cause McGreevey and other Catholic politicians to change their positions on issues such as abortion, risking a loss of credibility with voters.

McGreevey, for one, said there would be no change in his positions.

The governor said he was "strongly and unequivocally" in favor of a woman's right to choose an abortion, adding that there was no place for government interference in what he said was "an intensely personal decision between the woman and her doctor."

Many said the church's position could deter Catholics from getting involved in politics.

"If the price of running for public office is a public scolding by your bishop, then many may choose not to run," said Thomas O'Neil, a past executive director of the state Democratic Party.

LoBiondo and Pascrell said the church was creating an untenable standard both for Catholic politicians and religious officials.

They noted that some issues are so complex that a lawmaker could be both in compliance and in violation of church doctrine on the same piece of legislation.

"It's difficult because on many issues there's not a hard and fast line on where people stand," LoBiondo said, noting that lawmakers generally support certain aspects of an issue or legislation while opposing others.

"Will a bishop or priest understand someone's voting record completely, and how are they going to make that decision in the Communion line?" LoBiondo said.

A Democratic state legislator, who asked not to be named, agreed, saying, "What are we going to do, have priests standing at the Communion rail with legislative indexes in their hands?"

McGreevey and Communion Articles


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy; Politics/Elections; US: New Jersey
KEYWORDS: archbishopmyers; bernardkenny; billpascrell; bishop; catholicchurch; catholiclist; catholicpoliticians; catholicvote; catholicvoter; dems; galante; goodriddance; mccarrick; mcgreevey; myers; newjersey; nj; njpoliticians; raymondlesniak
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 61-8081-100101-120 ... 141-155 next last
To: Stagerite
"Catholic prelates should get their collective nose out of secular matters."

so religious people can't partake in the govt?.....really.....

81 posted on 05/09/2004 8:48:31 PM PDT by cherry
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Coleus
If every faith starts trying to impose their rules on elected officials, democracy is going to be factionalized along religious lines," said Kenny, a Democrat from Hudson County.

Yes, soon we'll be warring with those faiths that approve of abortion. It can't help but lead to a civil war!

82 posted on 05/09/2004 8:49:20 PM PDT by thegreatbeast (Quid lucrum istic mihi est?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
Just about every time a liberal talks about "separation of church and state" what he really wants is "separation of church and society".
83 posted on 05/09/2004 8:57:26 PM PDT by KarlInOhio (Teach a Democrat to fish and he will curse you for not just giving him the fish.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: KarlInOhio
Yep. It gets a little boring having to rehearse these arguments over and over again. The "establishment" clause in the U.S. Constitution had to do with official state churches (one Christian denomination, Anglican or Congregationalist primarily) and the doctrines which distinguished them from each other. The existence of God and a moral order were not disputed. Nor were civic prayer, prayer in schools, or Bible instruction in schools.

The elaborate "Separation of Church & State" mythology which has evolved from aggressive secular humanist extremists suggesting such ridiculous things as forbidding public displays of Christmas symbols, etc., is a modern fantasy created by liberals with pathological fears of, apparently, even religious imagery.

84 posted on 05/09/2004 9:05:02 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 83 | View Replies]

To: KarlInOhio
Or "freedom from religion" as some have put it. There is no constitutional law which prevents someone from coming up to you and saying "Merry Christmas," "God Bless you," or just mentioning "Jesus," for instance.

For someone to stand in the House of Representatives, the Senate, or the White House and say, "abortion is morally wrong" is not unconstitutional. Bush can sit there in the Oval Office and say, "Jesus Christ is my personal savior and I believe that He wants me to promote the cause of life." Americans are free to disagree with him and vote him out, if they so choose. We can also vote him back in.

85 posted on 05/09/2004 9:11:02 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 83 | View Replies]

Comment #86 Removed by Moderator

Comment #87 Removed by Moderator

Comment #88 Removed by Moderator

To: seamole
Congress may not pass a law regarding the "establishment" of religion. Yes. Far cry from forcing secular humanism down people's throats as liberals do today.
89 posted on 05/09/2004 9:36:05 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 87 | View Replies]

To: Coleus
Hm.....seems pretty simple.

Both these guy's suck.

90 posted on 05/09/2004 9:45:15 PM PDT by Psycho_Bunny
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: seamole
"Unrepentant mass murdering baby butchers like McGreevey and Kerry"

This is where you lost me. Have these two individuals been performing abortions? I'm fairly certain neither of them has a medical license. Perhaps I missed the indictments against them for practicing medicine without a license? The obviousness of the truth is rather striking - the Church is using excommunication as a weapon against politicians in an ill-fated attempt to force a change in government policy. Just how would you feel if a Muslim politician reversed their position on an important issue to one which goes against 75% of their constituentcy's wishes following a cleric's Fatwah? That's essentially what we're seeing here - a Fatwah aimed at politicians from the Catholic Church which carries a penalty of eternal damnation for non-compliance. If the Church were to apply this to every person who's had an abortion and every activist who's ever participated in a pro-choice rally, then I wouldn't complain. My problem is that the Church is specifically targeting politicians. If Church law does not apply equally, then it's no law at all and should be ignored.

"Let me guess: you read the NY Times (or its subsidiaries). Small studies (larger studies killed due to union pressure) show that 15% of NYC public school teachers will admit to having committed a sexual indiscretion with a student. 4% of (non-unionized) priests have been accused of sexual impropriety. Perhaps the government should stop fighting wars?"

I get my news from a variet of sources to get all sides of the picture. Small studies are unreliable. The entire section is irrelevant. The fact is, the Catholic Church is preaching a moral high ground on a topic on which it's been all but silent, and it's doing so after refusing to fess up to an incredible problem of morality within its own gates. I don't doubt that a lot of teachers have improper relationships with students. What I have not seen are school districts fielding complaints of sexual abuse by teachers, from parents, and dealing with those complaints by transfering rapists and child molesters from school district to school district, knowing for a fact that they're sexual predators who target the most vulnerable individuals around them - children. What I have not seen is a Federal mandate that teachers not be fired after only a few cases of sexual molestation or rape, and that they be protected as possible from prosecution, even to the point of possibly obstructing justice. Where I have seen that coming from is the Bishops and, as for the latter, the Vatican. Unless and until they relent and agree to fire and assist in the prosecution of any priest shown to have raped or molested even a single child, the Church has absolutely no authority on which to issue statements on morality. A Church that tolerates child-rape is not a church with the slightest bit of credibility on the morality end of things.

Unfortunately, this is a battle still being fought. There are absolutely good Bishops and good priests out there, but they're being tripped up worst of all by the Vatican. I would urge you to read on here about the continuing battle for real tools to deal with these people. I would further point you to the 'Vatican Norms' to see where much of the problem lies. Of those, Article 17 is the worst, imo, because it prevents good Bishops from removing rapists and molesters from their posts.
91 posted on 05/09/2004 10:22:12 PM PDT by NJ_gent
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 86 | View Replies]

To: Coleus
Roman Catholic politicians in New Jersey, including one who left the church yesterday, are expressing anger at what they say is an attempt by church leaders to force them to decide between their government oaths and their religion.

It's too bad they feel like they have to turn their backs on moral and natural law in order to please their constituents. It has nothing to do with the Catholic Church, it has to do with the laws of God, versus the laws of man, and it looks like politicians like this are turning against God.

Besides which, the Church isn't forcing anyone to do anything, it is simply reminding politicans that they can't campaign as Catholics if they aren't willing to do what it takes to be a part of the Faith.

92 posted on 05/09/2004 10:38:34 PM PDT by SuziQ
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Coleus
Unlike McGreevey, Pascrell said he would not submit to the church's directive with regard to the Eucharist. "I will continue receiving Communion - not in defiance but out of conscience. I have nothing to apologize for."

Not in defiance? What a liar! If he weren't trying to be defiant, he would keep his mouth shut about it, but I notice he's not doing that.

93 posted on 05/09/2004 10:40:50 PM PDT by SuziQ
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Stagerite
Catholic prelates should get their collective nose out of secular matters.

They don't have their noses in secular matters, they have their noses in matter of church. If you don't believe in the edicts of the church you should not be a member of that church. Claiming to be a member in good standing to gain votes and then not adhereing to the requirements for communion are church matters.

94 posted on 05/09/2004 10:43:57 PM PDT by McGavin999 (If Kerry can't deal with the "Republican Attack Machine" how is he going to deal with Al Qaeda)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Coleus
If every faith starts trying to impose their rules on elected officials, democracy is going to be factionalized along religious lines," said Kenny, a Democrat from Hudson County.

So is he against imposing welfare on the voters?

95 posted on 05/10/2004 12:53:59 AM PDT by nickcarraway
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Stagerite
So you believe elected official have the right to dictate to religions their beliefs? Maybe politicians should get their collective noses out of church matters. I find no support in the Constitution for your idea that religions are owned by the government.
96 posted on 05/10/2004 1:00:26 AM PDT by nickcarraway
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: buccaneer81
New Jersey is one of the nation's most politically moderate states, with polls showing that three-quarters of voters favor abortion rights.

Only the media would consider that moderate.

Is this one of the same polls that also (depending on how you look at the data) says that a majority favors some kind of restrictions on abortion? Boy I love how journalists cloak things in selective ambiguity for the sake of pushing an agenda. What integrity.

97 posted on 05/10/2004 1:04:28 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 62 | View Replies]

To: Coleus
The bishops are growing some brass ones.
98 posted on 05/10/2004 1:06:11 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
And, indeed, the non-Christian Hippocratic Oath prohibited abortion.

Of course, that's why they don't use it anymore -- or use a heavily "edited" version.

99 posted on 05/10/2004 2:35:24 AM PDT by maryz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
These liberals seem to have a VERY weird understanding of this issue.

As I noted on another thread, to paraphrase Roseanne (before the show went off the deep end), "Liberals don't think like regular people." Or maybe I mean liberals don't think.

100 posted on 05/10/2004 2:48:44 AM PDT by maryz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 61-8081-100101-120 ... 141-155 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson