As the U.S. military abandons Fallujah, Iraqis proclaim victory

Knight Ridder Newspapers ^ | Sat, May. 01, 2004 | Hannah Allam

[Anti-Bubba182]

FALLUJAH, Iraq - Masked men carrying rocket-propelled grenade launchers and waving Iraqi flags rode through the deserted streets of Fallujah on Saturday, claiming victory in the withdrawal this week of U.S. Marines after a month-long siege of the city.

A day after the U.S.-led coalition announced it was handing over most security matters to a popular general from the former Iraqi regime, Fallujah residents tentatively stepped out of shuttered homes to find demolished buildings, uprooted palm trees, rows of shelled villas and car windows riddled with bullet holes.

They took comfort in what they did not see: Americans.

"The Americans have been pushed out by true soldiers, heroic men," said Shaker Adnan, 35, who wore the burgundy beret and dark camouflage of the Fallujah Brigade, the new proxy security force assembled by the coalition. "If the Americans were men, they would have never retreated. This triumph came from God."

Despite the coalition's insistence the move was not a retreat, local religious leaders called a victory prayer at a battle-scared mosque. Other Fallujah residents wept at a soccer stadium where dozens of anti-American fighters were buried in graves marked with crude tombstones and wilted flowers. So many bodies had arrived at the makeshift cemetery that a backhoe dug long trenches in the dirt, where the dead were buried single file.

Men with AK-47 assault rifles slung over their shoulders sobbed at one row of graves, where 26 members of the same family were buried. Several gravestones simply bore the inscription "unknown martyr," along with details of the remains. "Black beard, green trousers," read one marker. "Pieces of flesh, brown shirt," read another. An estimated 600 Iraqis died in the siege, according to hospital and news accounts.

"We're left with nothing but a few simple weapons, but we will continue to use them if the Americans return," said Hassan Ahmed, 35, who recited verses from the Quran over a plot. "Did you see the grave of the newborn? He never even got to see the light, rest his soul."

After threatening a major offensive, the coalition this week announced the pullback, and recruited Maj. Gen. Jassim Mohamed Saleh, a former Republican Guard two-star general, to oversee security inside the city. He'll command the Fallujah Brigade, the emerging force that eventually will have more than 1,000 troops stationed at checkpoints and conducting patrols throughout town....."

[tpaine]

Neither of you have even remotely faced up to the fact that we simply don't have a reason to fight an 'unconditional surrender/kill em all' type war in Iraq.

As I said above, -- we are there, imo, to prevent a middle east WWIII.
Let us hope one does not develop.
331 tpaine

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Is there another type of war that we don't know of??
The only type of war I know of is the one where you fight to win and if you ain't prepared to win or you don't the stomach or the resolve to do all that is needed to win then you have no business getting yourself into a war.
333 expatguy

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You mean we don't have the WILL. I believed in this war. I still do. But since it appears that most of us were beaten before it started, we should never have gone in the first place. All we have done is to replace Saddam with the beginnings of a new Islamofascist terror central of our own making from which we run while calling it "Victory". You have been duped.
334 -usotos-

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Dream on fellas, -- that we are fighting an unlimited war in Iraq.

Anyone can tell you that we are involved in yet another 'police action'. -- Feel free to dupe yourselves into believing it's a holy war. -- Tho you had better pray that it doesn't turn into one.

[expatguy]

Anyone can tell you that we are involved in yet another 'police action'. -- Feel free to dupe yourselves into believing it's a holy war. -- Tho you had better pray that it doesn't turn into one.

The ONLY people who don't consider this yet a religious war are Americans.

You can rest assured that every single muslim on the "arab street" believes this is a religious war.

[UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide]

Al Gore was "right" about what...?

Algore was right about nothing, except he may have only been premature when he ranted, "HE BETRAYED THIS COUNTRY!"

God, I hope I'm premature and that we soon go back on the offensive or we are in for unimaginable trouble.

[Southack]

"The majority of Iraqis are only friendly when you have a gun pointed at them. Turn your back and they will stab you. You also don't seem to take into account the Iraqis who are sympathizers."

No, on the contrary, I'm simply not letting the tail (about 4,000 anti-American fighters in Iraq) wag the dog (there are about 25 million people in Iraq today).

...And the sooner that those 25 million Iraqis take over their own destiny by putting down anti-American uprisings with their own Iraqi soldiers led by their own Iraqi generals, the better as far as I am concerned (with the obvious caveat that they must remain friendly to us or else we will have to repeat 1991 and 2003 all over again and again until they get with the program).

What I don't like seeing are people who let the tail wag the dog and then proceed to get all hysterical when the press breathlessly hypes a few dozen fatalities here and there as if they were statistically significant (when they aren't even a blip). The press gives 10 times more coverage of 130 U.S. deaths in one month in Iraq than on the over 3,000 U.S. deaths each month on our highways...as if those 3,000 Americans matter less, for instance.

Nor do I like the ideas tossed around by some posters that the U.S. should be putting down every Iraqi uprising and otherwise baby-sitting Iraqis for hundreds of years to come. Friendly Iraqis need to take care of their own problems as soon as they are able.

...And for me, the sooner the better.

[Joe Hadenuf]

I will agree with that.

[Southack]

"You can rest assured that every single muslim on the "arab street" believes this is a religious war."

Nonsense. There are 125 Muslims from Algeria currently serving with our coalition in Iraq. There are more than 1,000 Muslims serving in the U.S. armed forces, too. Muslims in Libya certainly don't think that this is a holy war. Nor do the Muslims serving under Musharraf in Pakistan. Qatar, the UAE, and Sudan seem to be on our side, too.

...And there are 20 million Muslims in Afghanistan who greatly prefer the U.S. backed Northern Alliance over the hated Taliban, too. You'd be hard pressed to get them to think that this is a religious war, though the liberal news media would love for you to try.

[Joe Hadenuf]

Little do you know, in 92, during the largest riots in AMERICAN history, the gang bangers, (terrorist) thought they'd go into Korea town, and were stopped cold, by thousands of armed Korean business owners. They really helped the cops out, as they couldn't control the animals themselves at that point.

To bad the Iraqis that supposedly really like America sit on their asses while our guys die.

those Koreans were protecting THEMSELVES. there is a big difference between protecting yourself and your store

LOL! So you are suggesting that the Iraqis never felt threatened by Saddam, or his supporters so they feel no need to fight for and support their American liberators? What kind of claptrap is this?

[oceanview]

they don't feel they are fighting against saddam anymore, that phase of the war is over. its that simple. we have to find iraqis willing to fight someplace else - and if this fallujah brigade thing works out, its a positive step.

do you realize who we are dealing with amongst the populace there? these aren't the hard working educated Koreans of LA, these are ignorant, oppressed people, followers of a 10th century cult religion, whose minds are polluted by Al Jazeera and what they hear in the mosques every day. The best comparison to your Koreans in LA are the Kurds - they have done what you state, formed their own security force and are effectively in control in the north.

[Joe Hadenuf]

these are ignorant, oppressed people

Oh please......

[af_vet_1981]

Not sure I understand why you say that? Bush hasn't flinched in 3 years against terrorists. Marines were reaady to go, and authorized to go, when the Iraqis recommended this deal. We said we would give it a try. Not sure why that would convince you we are afraid to go in with the Marines?

Bush is unable to fight a war (yet) with a large loss of civilian casualties. This is the Achilles Heel of American military doctrine as practiced by the politicians. It has become the expectation, the norm, the standard. With it we would have lost World War Two.

We should try to avoid war but once we engage we should completely destroy the enemy that does not unconditionally surrender without undue concern for civilian casualties. The residents of Fallujah should have had 3 days to evacuate and then we raze the city. The next city will put up some resistance to the terrorists themselves or suffer a similar fate.

I know. I know. We are there to be loved, not feared ...

They love to take us hostage, mutilate, burn, and hang us. Fallujah should be severely punished for celebrating those deaths.

[UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide]

I agree with you to a point. Most Muslims do not wish to fight us. Some Muslims will even fight alongside us. But most Muslims will do nothing against fellow Muslims, whether starting a war with the West or oppressing them (even though that is against Hadith Bukhari 3:43:624). And many Muslims will actively support the self-proclaimed Jihadists for religious and other reasons. This last group must be discouraged by force.

[livius]

That's right, but that is just as bad (or worse).

I agree. However, we have to remember that the Marines have never actually left the area and this is all very contingent (in fact, from recent reports, it sounds as if the deal is off). If you look at it realistically, it's just a reasonable attempt to give the Iraqis a chance to grow up and handle things themselves.

The negative effect was due to bad or least slanted reporting, and I think it was our fault for controlling the information so badly that the press could take off with it. We did much better at the start of the war - we can't stifle the press, obviously, but they've got to get the information in a more orderly and controlled manner. This thing was terribly handled from the start. It was abrupt, unexplained, and gave the press full scope to spin it any way they wanted.

[Pipeline]

Interesting premise: Put all the ex Ba'athists in charge of a town full of folks loyal to Husein, pull back the troops to a safe distance and use the town as a bombing range for the fighter pilots.

[MarkL]

You'll get no disagreement from me on this one.

It didn't take a rocket scientist to predict that when the US pulls out of any situation in the arab world, they declare victory, and then step up the violence.

The problem is that the administration knew this would happen, but they still followed this disasterous path.

The simple fact is that Fellujah needed to become a symbol of American strength, and instead, it's become one of American weakness to our enemies.

Sure, we need to "win the hearts and minds" of the Iraqi people, but first, we have to have victory over our enemies. We seem to be putting the cart before the horse, and that's going to get a lot more of our people killed.

Just Damn.

Mark

[dalebert]

I must admit that I am not thrilled with the PR war.

[tpaine]

Neither of you have even remotely faced up to the fact that we simply don't have a reason to fight an 'unconditional surrender/kill em all' type war in Iraq.

As I said above, -- we are there, imo, to prevent a middle east WWIII.
Let us hope one does not develop.

Dream on fellas, -- that we are fighting an unlimited war in Iraq.

Anyone can tell you that we are involved in yet another 'police action'. -- Feel free to dupe yourselves into believing it's a holy war.
-- Tho you had better pray that it doesn't turn into one.
341 tpaine

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The ONLY people who don't consider this yet a religious war are Americans. You can rest assured that every single muslim on the "arab street" believes this is a religious war.
342 -expat-

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And the reason they may think think that is a result of the political failures made in explaining this police action 'war'..

We needed land bases in the middle east to try to bring control to this mess, -- so we took them..
-- This ain't about religion, -- its our self protective business, -- our national interest.

Arabs understand power, and respect those who know how to use it.
Our 'political leaders' do not have their respect..

[WOSG]

I'd add one more:

1. Overthrow Saddam's terrorist regime..done

2. Set up a base of operations in the middle of the hornets nest for intelligence, strategic, and tactical purposes.

3. Defeat the Islamofascist ideology by replacing tyrannical regimes with moderate democratic ones.

[WOSG]

"We should of invaded with 500,000 troops minimum."

If we managed to take baghdad and topple the regime in 3 weeks with half that sized force (and only 150,000 combat boots that went into iraq), why do you insist we need 2X as much?

[WOSG]

"Our lack of influence upon the news that's coming out of Iraq and the negative stories about our military is absolutely toxic and is putting our soldiers in unexcusable jeopardy. I'm REALLY PISSED OFF ABOUT THIS!!!! G.D. BUSH, DO SOMETHING, DAMIT!!!"

We'd need to put a JDAM on Al Jazeera to stop that ... aint gonna happen, except in our dreams.

[zarf]

Occupation force.