Why are Christians losing America?

WorldNetDaily.com ^ | Wednesday, April 28, 2004 | David Kupelian

[RightWhale]

Legalizing abortion was the biggest decision, some think.

[Delphinium]

I agree with this article. Wish it could help stir some of these religious folks.

[american spirit]

What you write may be true but all I can say is that luckily for us the "black robed brigade" from the Revolutionary War days felt much different about the church's and their role in the political matters of the day. It's pretty obvious that one of the major driving forces in organizing the citizenry to stand up and fight the British were the pastors and various church leaders who were instrumental in organizing and motivating the colonists. I guess their interpretation of the New Testament was somewhat different than what we're witnessing today.

[Taliesan]

When Rome was Pagan it was at it's high point being the world leader for 1000 years but after Constantine converted the Empire and the more Christian it got the worse off it became.

Superficial history.

Rome was always pagan. It decayed from within from success and prosperity (not because of homosexuality and games, BTW).

Constantine did not "convert the empire". Only individuals can convert; Constantine opened up the power structure to individuals who claimed to be Christians, and wanted to impose so-called Christian profession and morals on other people by the sword. The populace was never "converted"; they chose to live rather then die. The church was tragically corrupted by touching the sword in outright apostacy from the Lord's style.

Rome fell from ease and affluence, just like America is rotting from ease and affluence. The church fell from lust for power (which is just a step toward ease and affluence). When the church threw in with Constantine, it simply meant they both went down together, both clutching the same idol.

The dark ages were simply the holocaust of war and the breakdown of institutions followed by a dominance of peoples (Goths, etc.) who had no classical heritage.

It took a thousand years for the West to recover classicism (read: Aristotle) from the rubble, and it took the same 1000 years for the church to recover her own classics (read: Jesus).

It all was not the tale of God in history; God abandoned history when history crucified Him. It was simply a human tale of greed, power, politics, learning.

Similarly, America was not blessed by God with freedom because of the presence of Christians on North American soil. This is an extra-canonical story which has come to hold the status of unwritten scripture in the minds of some American Christians. The same protestant evangelicals who would shudder at the thought of the pope adding one jot to the authoritative corpus have no problem holding as a sacred story of origins the myth that for some reason, here, God decided to bless the pious with the political freedom He had shown so little interest in giving other Christians in other lands and times.

America is not a tale of God in history. He abandoned history when history crucified Him.

Christianity had little to do with the decline of Rome. Christianity planted the seed in the Western mind of non-coercion of belief -- that seed got into the meme store of the West and grew out as the separation of church and state, which was elaborated by the minds and blood of believers and atheists alike, and blossomed into America when believers and atheists alike simply decided to kill their overlords rather than live under their thumbs.

But, other than the planting of the seed, Christianity has not produced special blessings on America from God.

You cannot read history and ascribe long term cultural success to anything other than Aristotle's mind made politically free by Jesus' style: you cannot read the New Testament and think that God has any great interest in political freedom, American or otherwise.

[aruanan]

Why are Christians losing America?

Because there are too many of them who think that the way to promote Christianty is via legislation rather than evangelization, who think that boycotting non-Christian enterprises to get their own way counts as some sort of positive Christian virtue. While these folks are fools, they're not "fools for Christ."

[Taliesan]

I think you are right. The early colonists, as well as many ON BOTH SIDES of the Civil War, were christians. In the case of the Civil War, pastors on both sides used their pulpits to drive the war effort; in the North, they cried "free the slaves, God wills it" and in the South, they cried "free your homeland, God wills it".

The reason both sides could enlist christians to kill each other is simply that the New Testament supports neither argument, equally.

Neither Jesus nor Paul had any interest in the concept of dying or killing for a country.

In fact, Jesus explicity rejected that option: "IF MY KINGDOM WERE OF THIS WORLD MY SERVANTS WOULD FIGHT."

[Diddle E. Squat]

Christians have lost the 30-year war to protect the unborn.

Since when did the Pro-Life movement become the Pro-Defeatist movement? Has there ever been a group more dominated by manic-depressives?

The writer completely ignores the facts that we are passing increasing restrictions on abortions, that public opinion is moving in the direction of life, that abortions are decreasing, that the youngest generations are far more pro-life, and that all this points to the overturning of Roe v. Wade is a near certainty based on demographics, the only question is how soon.

[Diddle E. Squat]

worthy of a tagline

[spodefly]

"History fails to record a single precedent in which nations subject to moral decay have not passed into political and economic decline. There has been either a spiritual awakening to overcome the moral lapse, or a progressive deterioration leading to ultimate national disaster." -- General Douglas MacArthur

[<1/1,000,000th%]

Because they don't vote.

[Tribune7]

Great post. Thanks.

[freedox]

Thank you for an excellent post......I'll be chewing on this one for a while.

[mombonn]

America's real revival will happen when those same people go home, go to their room, close the door, take a deep breath – and take a good, long, hard look at themselves in the mirror. And then, quietly and humbly and fervently, they ask the living God for help, for insight, for direction – for salvation.

Amen!

2 Chronicles 7:14 - if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.

[Dataman]

Stop immigration and we will create a situation where we can solve many other problems, including the excess of immorality.

Thanks for the laugh. I suppose all the gays and screeching feminists came from Mexico and the liberals from France?

[Dataman]

Aside from the gratuitous (and inaccurate) slap at people who take prophecy seriously, a good think-piece.

I don't think it was gratuitous. Those who sit on their duffs because they think they are going to be raptured out of trouble don't really take prophecy or the words of Jesus seriously, do they? Using any teaching such as a pre trib rapture or eternal security as an excuse for laziness is an abuse of the teaching.

[BibChr]

<< Using any teaching such as a pre trib rapture or eternal security as an excuse for laziness is an abuse of the teaching. >>

So who does? What's the biggest organized group of women countering NOW? That would be Concerned Women for America. Who founded and heads it up? That would be Beverly la Haye. La Haye... La Haye... that name sounds familiar.

Oh yes, she's the wife of Tim la Haye, BIG-time pre-tribber, co-author of the Left Behind series.

Before the literary critics descend, here's the point: being pre-trib obviously didn't retard their sense of social engagement as Christians.

Examples could easily be multiplied. I would be another, far lesser example.

There are lazy, foolish professed Christians of all shades of doctrine. But no direct line necessarily connects taking prophecy seriously and being disengaged.

Dan

[Dataman]

So who does?

Dear bro, few know as well as you how belief affects behavior.

I've run across quite a few so far. The worst example was from the Dutch Reformed parents of good friends who went to the mission field. The parents, along with the pastor pleaded with them not to go because it was futile in light of robotic predestination.

Another example was a group of youthful churchgoers who were entering into a "questionable activity." When asked how they could be seen like that in public, the response was, "We're under grace, not under law."

[qam1]

Christians have lost the 30-year war to protect the unborn.

Since when did the Pro-Life movement become the Pro-Defeatist movement? Has there ever been a group more dominated by manic-depressives?

The writer completely ignores the facts that we are passing increasing restrictions on abortions, that public opinion is moving in the direction of life, that abortions are decreasing, that the youngest generations are far more pro-life, and that all this points to the overturning of Roe v. Wade is a near certainty based on demographics, the only question is how soon

Well technically the author is correct, Christianity did lose it's battle in the pro-life/pro-choice "war". In an ultimate irony what is actually turning more people over to the pro-life side is not religion (because the most pro-life generation is the least religious) but science (most notably ultrasounds).

Plus I never understood the connection between pro-life and Christianity, In the Bible the unborn (as well as children and pregnant women) were often killed by or in the name of God.

[Rytwyng]

culture wars are not won through political action but by winning the hearts and minds of the people.

Very true. However, once their hearts are converted, someone has to educate their minds as to *what* God expects of them in the political realm. Regarding which --

Jesus had NO interest in influencing politics ... Jesus had NO interest in reforming society by any method other than a personal devotion to His person and His utterances.

True in a certain sense, but, (a) civilization requires laws and goverment, (b) somebody, somewhere, has got to be the government, (c) government officials can be saved, just as everyone else, and (d) such salvation, if genuine, will cause the said government officals to make more righteous decisions.... hence, a certain amount of social reform WILL take place. "Seek ye first the Kingdom of God", yes, but, in the getting of it, righteous governemnt is a nice earthly side effect.

It was His scandalous LACK OF INTEREST in politics and wider culture (plus other things) that got Him in trouble.

Au contraire -- part of the false charges against him involved alleged illegal plotting against the government.

I can't imagine how anybody could read the New Testament and find ANYTHING OTHER than a clear, willful, systematic, proud "political non-involvement" on the part of Jesus and His followers.

They had no rights or political access to the system; most of them were not even Roman citizens (except for the Apostle Paul). It simply wasn't possible for them to influence the political system, except indirectly by evangelizing those who WERE government officials.

However, it does not logically follow that Christians in a democratic republic should shirk their duties re:, at least, studying the issues a bit and voting, and in some cases obeying a call to activism or seeking elective office. It's clear that God cares about government -- the Bible has a lot to say about how government should be conducted, and we ignore those admonitions on election day at our peril. Furthermore several heroes of the faith were government officals of one sort or another -- Joseph and Daniel come to mind.

[k2blader]

Bump for later read.

Looks like *good* stuff.