Attorneys argue over questioning of witnesses in Schiavo case

Sarasota Herald-Tribune, FL ^ | 4/19/2004 | Vickie Chachere

[Future Useless Eater]

Attorneys argue over questioning of witnesses in Schiavo case

By VICKIE CHACHERE
Associated Press Writer

CLEARWATER, Fla. --
The attorney for a man seeking to end his severely brain-damaged wife's life argued Monday that Gov. Jeb Bush shouldn't be allowed to gather new evidence in the case because the judge has all the information he needs to decide if the law keeping Terri Schiavo alive is unconstitutional.

The governor's attorney countered that questioning is needed because lawmakers were uncomfortable with Michael Schiavo's motives in wanting to withdraw food and hydration from his wife. Those questions are central to determining whether the state went too far when lawmakers hastily acted to stop Michael Schiavo from ending his wife's life last year, the governor's attorney argued.

The arguments were another round in the long, legal drama surrounding the 40-year-old woman who has been kept alive with a feeding tube after suffering severe brain damage after her heart stopped temporarily more than a decade ago. Pinellas Circuit Court Judge W. Douglas Baird did not immediately rule on the matter.

The governor's office wants to question its first witness in the case, Terri Schiavo's younger brother Bobby Schindler, on May 5. But the target of the depositions is Michael Schiavo, who has waged the legal quest to carry out what he says are his wife's wishes not to be kept alive artificially.

Terri Schiavo's feeding tube was disconnected for six days in October when the governor signed a law requiring it to be reinserted.

Michael Schiavo has sued, saying his wife's right to make private medical decisions is being violated. The governor's attorneys argue the law is constitutional and provides an extra measure of protection for a disabled woman who left no written record of her end-of-life wishes.

Attorney George Felos, who represents Michael Schiavo, told Baird that the depositions should be blocked because the issue of whether the law is unconstitutional or not is a legal one, not one that requires evidence to be gathered.

"Under this statute, whatever the case may be, the patient is denied the most basic form of due process," Felos argued, adding that the law is unconstitutional as written "and the governor's discovery is completely irrelevant."

Felos asked Baird in a December motion to use the judge's decision to end the case before it got to trial. Baird reached a decision in that motion for summary judgment, but has kept it secret pending appeal in the complex legal case.

But attorney Ken Connor, representing Bush in the case, said since a probate court judge decided that Terri Schiavo had made clear she did not want to be kept alive artificially in conversations with her husband and his relatives, others have come forward to cast doubt on Michael Schiavo's motives.

He said lawmakers "saw a woman who was unable to speak for herself and whose husband had a clear, admitted conflict of interest" in wanting to end her life.

Michael Schiavo is engaged to another woman with whom he has two children, Connor said. Michael Schiavo also never mentioned his wife's wishes when he told a jury considering a separate malpractice case that he wanted to take care of his wife for the rest of her life.

The governor's legal team wants to put the issue of Terri Schiavo's wishes before a jury. The team then wants a judge to determine if the October law violates her right to privacy or if the state was within its bounds in moving to protect her.

[Future Useless Eater]

Here is the original AP wire story from TODAY's hearings, before the Hemlock Society papers in Florida SPIN the story further tomorrow.

Highlights: Both sides re-argued their OPENING POINTS in Judge Baird's CRIMINAL court, without going into great detail over the 'Terri's Law' bill itself. Earlier, Judge Baird indicated a preference to rule without hearing lengthy arguments, but was slapped-down by the 2nd DCA (appeals court).

Governor Bush's attorney Ken Connor claims that new evidence has come forward to cast doubt on Michael Schiavo's motives, and lawmakers "saw a woman who was unable to speak for herself ahd whose husband had a clear, admitted conflict of interest" in wanting to end her life. Connor is demanding a JURY trial over the issues.

Attorney Connor wants to question his first witness on May 5th.
Attorney Felos made his same arguments as before.
Judge Baird did not yet rule either way.

[Note, Baird heard this case 11 miles away from the CIVIL court where the case originated and is recorded. The taxpayers are no longer paying Judge Baird to hear Civil cases. It is not clear to me how the Criminal Division can spare one if it's judges time for his own personal vendetta. In my opinion, Baird appears likely to SHORT-CHANGE this case because he now has new duties and responsibilities to Florida citizens charged in the criminal court.]

[Future Useless Eater]

Additional reports from our Freeper(s) who went to today's
hearings in person, are also available on Terri's Daily Thread...

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1120621/posts

[floriduh voter]

bttt. There are pictures over at today's Terri Daily Thread if you want to pick them up for this thread.

[skr]

Bump

[Future Useless Eater]

Since today's AP WIRE and postings at newspapers all over
the country qualifies as Front Page News, I think its a good
idea to get this out there as a separate thread TODAY,
before the trolls post the "SPIN" from SP.Times tomorrow.

[floriduh voter]

This AP reporter sat in front of me. I like my version of the hearing better.

I recalled this evening that GEORGE FELOS stated that "We don't have the divine right of kings" meaning that Jeb Bush couldn't halt Terri's starvation by making a law. I think Ken Connor countered that it was the House, Senate and Governor Bush who enacted Terri's Law therein making Terri's Law constitutional. Felos is trying to argue whether it's constitutional or not. Connor says that's a tremendous burden of proof for Felos to prove unconstitutionality.

[LisaFab]

Prayers for Terri--thanks for the ping.

[TaxRelief]

If a governor can stay a "criminal" execution, why can he not stay a "civil" execution?

[TOUGH STOUGH]

"Michael Schiavo also never mentioned his wife's wishes when he told a jury considering a separate malpractice case that he wanted to take care of his wife for the rest of her life."

Just one of the many red flags regarding Michael Schiavo's motives in this case.

[Future Useless Eater]

..thanks

Attorney Ken Connor for the State of Florida


Judge W. Douglas Baird


Attorney George Felos for the husband

[BykrBayb]

So basically, what Felos is saying, is that Terri has a right to die, whether she wants to or not. Any evidence showing that she wants to live is irrelevant, because her right to die out-weighs any desire she has to live. Did I get that right?

[Future Useless Eater]

Connect the Dots ... for Terri

• "When Bucky the Labrador collapsed, she[Terri] performed mouth-to-nose resuscitation on him. He died in her arms."
• She (Terri) once ran into the house crying because she had run over a rabbit. No one could console her. Her father went outside, came back, and said she was mistaken, there was no dead rabbit in the road. When she finally calmed down and left the room, her dad said, "Man, she nailed it."
• "She [Terri] went down my throat about this joke [about Karen Ann Quinlan], that it was inappropriate," [her best friend, Diane] Meyer said. She remembers Terri wondering [the summer before meeting Michael] how the doctors and lawyers possibly could know what Quinlan was feeling or what she would want. "Where there's life," Meyer recalls Schiavo saying, "there's hope."
• In an affidavit... [Michael's girlfriend for six months in 1992, Cyndi] Shook quoted Michael Schiavo as saying: "How the hell do I know what to do with her. We never talked about this when we were married. We were young and this was never talked about."
   
  
• Michael shows the 1992 malpractice jury how responsive Terri is to him.

  

  In late 1992, a jury agrees that Terri should live about 41 additional years, and it awards Michael a Million dollar lawsuit for Terri's rehabilitation. He soon afterwards, stops all physical therapy and rehabilitation, and issues a do-not-resucitate order.
• In 1996, Michael asked Jodi Centonze to marry him and she said YES. Michael testified under oath that Jodi is his fiancee. They now have two children together. State law prohibits guardians for the disabled who have significant conflicts of interest.
• In 1998, Michael suddenly recalled that Terri 'wished to die' rather than live with an inconspicuous feeding tube under her clothing. Many disabled people live nearly normal lives with the same kind of feeding tube.
• In 1999, it became legal for the first time to kill Florida's disabled by removing their feeding tubes. Any 'verbal contract' Michael and Terri might have had before 1990 to kill each other this way, would have been murder at that time and thus illegal.
• In 2003, Michael and his lawyer nearly convinced the world that Terri is "PVS" - which by Florida's definition is:
  • The absence of voluntary action or cognitive behavior of any kind.
  • An inability to communicate or interact purposefully with the environment.
• In 2004, The Pope rules that the disabled MUST be fed, and life-sustaining feeding tubes are NOT medical 'treatment'. Terri, a devout Catholic who spent K-12 in Catholic Schools would CERTAINLY honor the Pope's ruling, and choose to live.
• Question: Do these 2002 pics look like a Permanent Vegetative State?

From "Terri Big Eyes" video available at www.terrisfight.org

Terri starts out apparently asleep. A doctor wakes her to start his tests.

Doctor: Terri. Open your eyes up...

Terri: (Startled at hearing her name. She starts moving her mouth and fluttering her eyes, like a person who is just waking up)

Doctor: Open your eyes, Terri open your eyes

Terri: (slowly at first, Terri struggles to open her eyes, then turns toward the doctor, and opens her eyes a normal amount)

Doctor: There you go, good.

Terri: (then, either to show off(?) or wanting to perform well, she leans further forward toward the doctor, looks straight at him and opens her eyes as WIDE AS SHE CAN. Note the WRINKLES ACROSS HER FOREHEAD caused by her also RAISING HER EYEBROWS as high as possible )

Doctor: [now obviously impressed] GOOD!! GOOD JOB! GOOD JOB YOUNG LADY! Good Job.

• Mar 29, 2004. Michael makes up a ruse to deny ANY Schindlers from visiting Terri, who has recently developed a bedsore, lost two teeth for unexplained reasons, had two life-threatening vomiting sessions, and only rarely gets bathed. Judge Greer that same week gave the Schindler's a Catch-22: Either PROVE Michael ordered the nursing home to NOT share Terri's medical information, or else no court action or investigation will occur. The nursing home then continues to blackout information to Terri's parents, while Michael forces them to stay physically off-site.

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= = = = = = = = = == = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Recent interviews/excerpts:
= = = = = = = = = == = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
"Hannity and Colmes" - Tuesday 10-14-03 --> (Terri's father) Bob Schindler: "MONEY and FOUL PLAY"

"On the Record with Greta" - Friday 10-24-03 --> Forensic Pathologist, Dr. Michael Baden: "Potassium imbalance UNLIKELY - HEALTHY heart - NECK TRAUMA"

"At Large with Geraldo Rivera" Sunday 10-26-03 --> author Christopher Darden and Harvard Law Professor Alan Dershowitz: "You have eternity to be dead; You only have a limited amount of time to live"

"Hannity and Colmes" - Monday 10-27-03 --> (father) Bob Schindler and (neurologist) Dr. William Hammesfahr: "She absolutely CAN be rehabilitated -clearly NEVER had heart attack -Emergency room: damaged neck"

"On the Record with Greta" - Monday 10-27-03 --> (attorney) Pat Anderson: "BIG FIGHT -attempted STRANGULATION"

"On the Record with Greta" - Tuesday 10-28-03 --> (attorney) Pat Anderson and (brother) Bobby Schindler: "failing marriage -DIVORCE imminent -Potassium explained":

"Hardball with Chris Matthews" - Wednesday 10-29-03 --> (pro-Terri attorney for ACLJ) Jay Sekulow and (anti-Terri attorney) Joe Tacopina: "Matthews: I think the human issue here is... her eyes flickering... I think she's ALIVE":

"Larry King Live" - Monday 10-27-03 --> (husband) Michael Schiavo[barf alert]: THEY get money from the right wing ACTIVISTS - "Removing somebody's feeding is very painless. It is a very easy way to die" - [later] King: Would you take one[lie detector test]? - No (Commentary) almost entirely pro-husband -->

"O'Reilly Factor" - Wednesday 11-05-03 --> (former "Vegetative State" patient) Kate Adamson: Being starved to death is EXTREMELY painful "It was SHEER torture!" - took her THREE MONTHS of ACUTE REHAB to snap out
Her website says: We stand behind Terri Schindler!

"The Abrams Report" - Thursday 11-06-03 --> (pro-Terri attorney) Pat Anderson and (pro-death attorney) George Felos: "Felos: Michael is a MODEL husband" - Anderson:"Terri got NO REHAB after $award$":

"On the Record with Greta" - Thursday 11-06-03 --> (Gov.Bush's lead attorney) Ken Connor, and followed by a panel discussion:
"Connor: INDEPENDENTLY investigate the circumstances and allegations...
Gloria Alred: Perhaps the PARENTS SHOULD care for her

"Radio Interview" --> (Michael Schiavo's so-called 1st girlfriend after Terri's so-called 'collapse')
MS: "[Terri] upsets my WHOLE LIFE with this, and this is ALL her fault."
GIRLFRIEND: "he can be the most INCREDIBLY MEAN person!"

"CBS News Sunday Morning" - Sunday 11-09-03 -->
( Lead-off feature story for this Sunday morning news magazine )

"Hannity and Colmes" - Monday 11-17-03 --> (Terri's parents) Mary and Bob Schindler:
( "ACQUIRED CEREBRAL PALSY" ... "she's been literally in PRISON for FOUR years" )

"On the Record with Greta" - Friday 01-09-04 --> (Gov.Bush's lead attorney) Ken Connor, and (husband's attorney) George Felos:
Connor: "We'll GO to the Florida Supreme Court, and if the Governor isn't afforded an opportunity to try this case before a JURY, we'll try to go to the U.S. Supreme Court".

"On the Record with Greta" - Wednesday 01-21-04 --> (Gov.Bush's lead attorney) Ken Connor, and (husband's attorney) George Felos:
Connor: "...mister Schiavo and mister Felos are TERRIFIED of trying this case before a JURY. ... NO reasonable jury ... would EVER accept this proposition.".

"On the Record with Greta" - Friday 02-13-04 --> (Gov.Bush's attorney) Nicole Kerr, (husband's attorney) George Felos, and (WFLA reporter) Sharon Parker:
Kerr: "We think this is a TREMENDOUS victory for Terri Schiavo... this case basically says that we're ENTITLED to take depositions, we're entitled to discovery...".

[Chocolate Rose]

bump

[JulieRNR21]

BUMP for Terri's Life!

[Future Useless Eater]

So basically, what Felos is saying, is that Terri has a right to die, whether she wants to or not. Any evidence showing that she wants to live is irrelevant, because her right to die out-weighs any desire she has to live. Did I get that right?

sort-of, assuming ANYONE can decipher Hemlock-Society-speak.

But I tend to refer the answer to the 1998 and 1999 points above... Michael's recollections of what Terri had 'wished' were vague memories from at least EIGHT YEARS earlier, plus there are witnesses who dispute Michael's recollection. That plus Michael's version would have constituted an 'illegal verbal contract' in 1990.

[Future Useless Eater]

This AP reporter sat in front of me. I like my version of the hearing better.

And some VERY good points you made. It's always nice to get a 2ND person's report WHO WAS THERE, so I am reproducing many of your posts here...

I recalled this evening that GEORGE FELOS stated that "We don't have the divine right of kings" meaning that Jeb Bush couldn't halt Terri's starvation by making a law. I think Ken Connor countered that it was the House, Senate and Governor Bush who enacted Terri's Law therein making Terri's Law constitutional. Felos is trying to argue whether it's constitutional or not. Connor says that's a tremendous burden of proof for Felos to prove unconstitutionality. -Floriduh Voter

---

The bottom line is that "the burden of proof is on George Felos to show that Terri's Law was unconstitutional." As per Jeb's counsel, Felos would need to produce mountains of evidence to surpass that hurdle. -floriduh voter

---

It was fairly simple but for the fact that George Felos' babbling gave me a headache. lol -Floriduh Voter

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REPORT ON APRIL 19, 2004 HEARING 3:00 p.m. [by Floriduh Voter]

It was a long afternoon. I didn't get word re: the location of the hearing so I drove downtown, talked to the civil records clerk, some bailiffs and someone in the administrative office who was kind enough to call Judge Baird's office for me to find out when and where today's hearing was. Before I sped to the 49th St. Complex, I notified the bailiff in downtown Clearwater to direct others to Room 2 of the 49th St. Complex. ALL THIS IN HEELS.

I arrived at the Criminal Courthouse Complex on 49th Street which appears to be a much smaller building from the outside.

The marble hallways went on forever but I located Judge Baird's Courtroom and watched counsel arrive. Michael Schiavo was not in attendance. ATTY. GEORGE FELOS, DEBRA BUSHNELL and also an ACLU Attorney for the west coast of Florida was sitting at the heartless table.

ATTORNEY KEN CONNOR and his assistant came all the way from Virginia to represent Governor Bush. They were kind of surprised by the warm temps, even in the A/C. Other Terri supporters started to arrive as did the local news media but I can't recall exactly what the news media was doing because only one person had a camera. The other news crews in polo shirts were sitting in the back where we sat.

Judge Baird asked us to stand and then told us to be seated. I aced that portion of the hearing.

FIRST UP: GEORGE FELOS who wanted Judge Baird to approve MICHAEL SCHIAVO'S MOTION FOR PROTECTIVE ORDER which would prevent Jeb from taking any depositions or discovery. And, GEORGE FELOS also wanted Judge Baird to simply do a Summary Judgment which would for all purposes DISMISS Terri's Law and end Schiavo v. Bush lawsuit. (his droning voice did give me a headache - it reminded me of the canned voices at theme parks that tell you when to get on and off rides). His sentences were crafted, and I do mean crafted like an old crazy quilt.

NEXT UP: KEN CONNOR, GOV. BUSH'S ATTORNEY: Ken Connor was taller than George Felos and in addition, he had the recent reversal of the 2nd DCA to base his arguments upon. The point of the 2nd DCA reversing was not so that a Judge could do a summary judgment but so that there would be a resolution between the parties. Ken Connor mentioned that he had DOZENS or numerous Affidavits sent to him that supported Governor Bush's position and that Felos would have an insurmountable hurdle to prove that Terri's Law is unconstitutional since it originated in the Legislature before Gov. Bush signed it into law. Governor Bush RETAINS the right as Terri's proxy to do discovery and to take depositions. Ken Connor made sense.

GEORGE FELOS TRIES AGAIN: What does Felos pull out of the hat? That Senator Jim King said he was "hoodwinked" into signing Terri's Law. KEN CONNOR: Objected as hearsay and not admissible. GEORGE FELOS was running out of steam at this point and made the same points that he apparently made at the last hearing about a motion for protective order according to a portion of Ken Connor's remarks to the Court.

That was basically it. JUDGE BAIRD said that he would review the proceedings and put something in writing... The Orders usually come down by fax to the parties.

Terri's supporters stood around after the hearing in the marble hallway and I thanked Ken Connor for coming. He's a good man, folks. -FV

---

[BykrBayb]

All that just proves she wants to live, which is irrelevant. Allowing her to live just because she wants to live would deprive her of the right to die, which supercedes all other rights. I almost wish I could be MS's attorney, so I could argue the case that way in open court. "Your honor, the fact that my client tried to murder the victim on several occasions has no bearing on this case. The fact that the victim wants to live is irrelevant. In order to uphold her Constitutional right to die, we must starve and dehydrate her to death as soon as possible. In the mean time, we must deprive her of all basic medical care and comfort care in the hope that she will die more quickly and willingly. Any money awarded for her medical care must be used in an attempt to expedite her death."

[Future Useless Eater]

OK I get it finally. very cute. YOU are getting quite good
at interpretting HEMLOCK-SOCIETY-SPEAK! ... LOL

[TOUGH STOUGH]

FL-engineer is right; you have such a knack for interpreting the double-speak! LOL!

[floriduh voter]

Well, by having more than one account, it shows what the "real" media passes over compared to someone else's point of view. I guess the "divine right of kings" remarks on the record by Felos didn't fit the story the AP was writing. It was one of the wilder statements made by Felos and none of the news accounts I've seen reported it. We have it on record here at Free Republic thanks to Jim Robinson's great web site.