An Open letter to President Bush (End run vs. Outsourcing)

You don't know me, nor do I expect you to. But I'm one of those voices out here in the ether that actually did vote for you. I'm not one of those seminar caller types nor a Democrat pretending at being a republican to subvert the party faithful in dishonest fashion because their ideas aren't popular enough to win them anything. No, I'm a life-long republican who cherishes the memory of Ronald Reagan and who thought highly of you right up to the time you sunk a knife in my back economically.

Sir I understand it's a hard job being president. I also understand that in IT my job causes me to have to think on my feet and respond to an everchanging environment just to keep it. And while I was busting my behind for a company I happened to love doing a job I happened to love, you decided it's a good thing to do an endrun around equal protection and hand my job to a Mexican worker at 1/3 of the rate I'm being paid. Sir, Retail employees get paid more than that Full time and they're earning below the poverty level. The Job I hold for the moment requires a lot of hard work and problem solving skills, it requires good customer care skills, and it requires a long knowledge of Computers and software I didn't get from a degree but from practical experience.

I worked long and hard for years looking for the break that would get me in the door with my current employer. And I currently have a carreer with them. Or had, rather. I've worked for EDS for nearly 4 years. I will lose my job just short of that anniversary or just after it depending on how the breakdown happens.

I have a handicap that keeps me from driving a car. Not an official handicap, because it's so rare a problem that 1/2 of 1% of Americans have the condition so it doesn't rate being called what it is. I'm a blip on the screen. But, it means I have to live close to my employer and sometimes rely on others to help me get things done. I've lost everything and put my life back together 3 times in 15 years sir. And having just accomplished it again after 4 years with my employer, your policy has killed any protection I might have otherwise enjoyed from having my job destroyed by foriegn competition. And it puts me right back on the brink again. Sir, if I don't stand a chance of winning, it isn't competition - it's fish in a barrel. Where is my equal protection under the law?

The "competition" didn't get hired because of race or creed; but, because of national origin. They got hired because their cost of living is low enough that they can be paid sub-poverty wages to do my job. They are taking my job because they aren't constrained by the laws we have in this country to protect us and preserve our liberties. Lower cost of living, and no laws to constrain them. See, we used to have what was called ANTI-DUMPING laws on the books before Nafta to prevent the subversion of our economy by those who would attempt to compete on an unfair basis and put American firms out of business. We aren't a global economy, the globe is not the United States of America. They don't respect our rights, our Constitution, our laws or ourselves. The average citizen of the world might; but, we aren't dealing with them, we're dealing with the leaders who have their boots on the neck of the citizen of the world.

It seems today that I have to be a Mexican to get a fair shake in America. There are some 8 million of them here illegally as a tax on our system and working here taking jobs that Americans can do; but, which apparently, nobody wants to offer a fair wage for as long as they can get slave labor off the books. That isn't enough though. We need to employ More workers from Mexico, India, China.. As long as we're doing it, sire, why not be obvious and lets put Sally Struthers on the TV to advertise IT Jobs for the people under repressive regimes in africa who can live on 52 cents a day, "the price of a cup of coffee." I don't care what color their skin is, No citizen of the United states could live on that and shouldn't be asked to compete with it. It's too blatently obvious that it's unfair. And that seems to be why it's "good for us all".

Your policy sir. It's you on the tube telling me it's good for me to lose my job to a Mexican worker outside of our system and in a manner with which I cannot compete. There isn't a job comparable to it here that I can take to make up the difference cause those are being outsourced too. Outsourced. How about endran. Because sir, that is what is happening - it's an end run around our system - around our rights, our laws, our constitutional provisions and protections. Your policy has relieved me of my job without due process. It tied my hands before I had a chance to respond. And so many businesses are being forced to do the same thing, that I don't stand a chance any more than those earning 3 times what I do in the same field who have lost their jobs already and have had to take 11k a year Retail jobs just to eat while their houses go up for sale.

I don't have a degree. I don't get retraining. I just get to lose my job at the whim of your policies and will likely lose more than that in the end. You see, I bought a new home too - a year ago. This job made it possible for me to do that. And as with my Job, I had to get a huge break to be able to pull it off. I've been behind you and a cheerleader of yours since I first heard you speak. I understand that the tanking economy isn't your fault. I understand it isn't your fault we were attacked. I understand and agree with pretty much everything you've done to date, sir. This however is in my mind beyond sickening. It is a betrayal of myself, my coworkers and every other hard working IT worker, Auto worker, etc that has lost their job due to this. It is a betrayal by their government and their employer. And it's a distrust you've earned by subverting them and me. For me, it's not just my Government, it's my own party.

Now I've heard all the arguments for outsourcing and all the copout phrases about what we do about companies that have outsourced to the US. Tell me, sir, how many of them outsourced to do an endrun around their system of government, their constitution, their laws and their workers. How many of them outsourced to us to produce goods for their home market. That isn't an argument that flies with me in the face of doing an endrun around us. They've built plants in our land and are working within our market, within it's rules, within our laws, within the constraints of our constitution and are paying a competative wage. Our companies are doing the opposite. And any way you cut it, it is economic and constitutional tyranny. I'm not a single issue voter sir, until that single issue is my life and livelihood.. until members of my own party call me a robber and a thief for expecting to keep my job when I've worked my behind off to do so.

I did it right. I've busted my backside under an ever increasing workload, kept my promise to my employer and my client. Never missed a metric, never dropped the ball for either of them and have always exceeded expectation as a member of one of the best teams on this planet in my humble opinion. My job is gone not because we didn't produce and not because either couldn't afford it; but, because Mexicans work cheaper and don't have our protections, laws, rights or constitution. I have a strong work ethic and a loyalty to my company that even now makes me shudder to say a bad word about them. I have no illusions; but, I was raised that if you do your best it pays off. I know now that if you do your best, you get kicked in the teeth just as hard, and if you get ahead a little bit, the government will be there to kick you back down. I appreciate how hard your job is. Mine is pretty dang hard too. But how about you and everyone in government work for $600 a month from now on like the Mexican workers replacing us. How about you all work for the income you're forcing me into. If it's good for us, it should be good for you too. You, and all the ivory tower types in our party that hiss at me for being upset over losing my job and wanting to defend myself. How would that be, sir? I'd just as soon see little Tommy Daschle and Ted Kennedy go fly a kite as hear them spout one more offensive evil lie about you. But I'd just as soon, too, see you join them holding the string if you're gonna ruin me and tell me it's good for me. How about if we just outsource your jobs too - oh, wait, that would be unconstitutional too, wouldn't it.

WRONG! Corporations are CREATED by the legal system in order to BENEFIT the whole society.

Corporations are ALLOWED by the legal system in order to BENEFIT the whole society.

They are created to make a profit.

They benefit society by creating jobs and products. And now YOU want to tell them what to do and who to hire? Regardless of the negative impact on profits?

Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face!!

A company that fails to produce results within a market spanning 3.6 million square miles, 290,000,000 highly educated people, rich in natural resources, with good infrastructure, and a stable government; is a company that should go out of business.

And when they go out of business and people lose their jobs then you complain about that too.

So, close the borders? Is that the answer? No foreign goods allowed?

And when they go out of business and people lose their jobs then you complain about that too.

I have never had a problem with the free market; so long as that market either operates within our borders, or plays on a level playing field. These corporate megaliths that you like to worship consume a lot of breathing room. If they go out of business, someone else will simply buy their assets and continue anew. It is no skin off the employees back, or loss to our tax base, as long as whatever replaces it lives within our borders. If new robots cost you a job, then go work for the guy making the robots. If new applications replace your position; then go help them administer the marketing of that application, or help others who are gaining market share due to the savings created by the innovation. A self contained system will continue to produce wealth, and innovation. What we have now wastes resources on reckless exploitation (read externatilies) and fraud.

I think some on this thread would like that hobnailed boot to get to work on our corporations.

You almost got the Nazi part right, but instead of Nationalist Socialist, we have Nationalist Capitalist. I don't hear anyone arguing for socialism. On the contrary, the anti-globalist are concerned that we are losing our capitalist structures and becoming too dependent on hostile communist nations. You may want read through some of this thread once again.

Economics isn't a religion, unless money is a god.

Hey church lady, any contextual reading of my comments back and forth with the other poster would clearly show I was not extolling the person to believe in money or economics, but was encouraging him to keep an optimistic outlook about things. It was a figure of speech. As Jesus said "stop passing judgement, and make the right judgement."

So long as they benefit society, they should be tolerated. Not a minute longer.

And you determine when that benefit ends? You tolerate them? How nice.

I guess Adam Smith is a dirty word to you anti-traders.

"IT IS NOT FROM THE BENEVOLENCE OF THE BUTCHER, THE BREWER, OR THE BAKER THAT WE EXPECT OUR DINNER, BUT FROM THEIR REGARD TO THEIR OWN SELF-INTEREST"

Works for corporations too. The benefit from corporations isn't because they're trying to be nice or do what you think they should do but because in their greedy little profit maximizing way they provide employment and goods which by their very nature benefit society.

I have never had a problem with the free market; so long as that market either operates within our borders, or plays on a level playing field.

Yeah, there are a whole lot of level playing fields out there. As a previous post on this thread mentioned, 50% of Americans are below the median IQ. How do you level their playing field?

Life is unfair, how do you level that?

I don't hear anyone arguing for socialism.
Post 334 XBOB said:We grant corporations ability to exist and perform commerce, not the otherway around. Corporations have no rights.

Sounds like we can take away the corporations right to exist. So, by threatening this right to exist the government can get the corporation to do the govt's bidding.

Sounds like a small step to outright govt ownership. I think that is calling for socialism.

On the contrary, the anti-globalist are concerned that we are losing our capitalist structures and becoming too dependent on hostile communist nations.

So, to save us from hostile communism we should adopt parts of it?

You may want read through some of this thread once again.

You first.

361 - "WRONG! Corporations are CREATED by the legal system in order to BENEFIT the whole society.
Corporations are ALLOWED by the legal system in order to BENEFIT the whole society.
They are created to make a profit.
They benefit society by creating jobs and products. And now YOU want to tell them what to do and who to hire? Regardless of the negative impact on profits?
Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face!!"

Hey - great idea, APole, how about I create a corporation to ban ToddsNoPatriot, so I can make some money. ToddsNoPatriot should be happy. Would you like to buy a share? Todd? APole? Selling shares to save our bandwidth by banning ToddsNoPatriot.

As long as I can make some money, it should be fine.

365 - "They benefit society by creating jobs and products. And now YOU want to tell them what to do and who to hire? Regardless of the negative impact on profits?
So long as they benefit society, they should be tolerated. Not a minute longer."

ToddsNoPatriot just cant seem to understand this, that a corporation should benefit society and contribute to it, not steal from it, all the work and money we have put into our society.

He really hasn't got a clue.

348 - "Indeed. [You have had | are having] a really cool, interesting life. A challenging life, yes, but I admire your ability to grow and change and adapt."

Thankyou. And it is why this particular argument means so much to me - I've been through it, many times. And it's not easy. And I saw a lot of families destroyed, capabilites and lives lost in the disasters that followed. And I was one of the young ones, with brains and talent to change. I saw many productive but less fortunate succomb and die, essentially in poverty and from broken hearts.

I saw something similar happen in Houston, during the oil crash in the 80's, as we sealed up oil wells, and shut down capacity, and forclosed on thousands - 3500 housing forclosures a month. And not fancy houses, just normal middle class housing.

But the most important time, was the first time, and it is why we can't get the shuttle launched now.

I am from Cape Canaveral. When I grew up, we had lots of work, launching missiles of various types, and then the race to the moon. Well, when we got to the moon, suddenly, this stopped, they laid off almost everybody, and shut down nearly everything. No jobs, no construction jobs, no engineering jobs, no missile jobs. NO JOBS, except a few. School after school closed, as families with children left to go somewhere where there was some work.

What happened - well, those great men, who got us to the moon, couldn't find a job pumping gas. For 8 years, there was NO work. Forclosures, bankruptsy, sickness, death followed the rack and ruin. Retrain? for what - going to Saturn? It was personal and financial disaster for tens of thousands.

The geniuses and training left, and never came back. All that amazing talent, lost, down the drain. And our space program has never recovered. And I saw the same thing happen in other industries, particularly oil. (That's why we import so much of our oil).

That's what Todd'sNoPatriot keeps arguing for.

What is happening now, there is no recovery. Perhaps in the next century, when we are a chinese colony, governed by outsourced Indians, and populated by Mexicans living in poverty.

The guy works for EDS, they have been importing Asians for years and they were already outsourcing in the late 1990s. This guy had to be blind not to see the writing on the wall. Now he's complaining??

I've given up harping about it. It's not Bush's fault he just wrongly looked the other way same as Clinton. Now there's no reversing it. There is going to be a lot of pain in the IT sector before it gets any better. I just happen to be lucky and have other well paying opportunities. I pity those who were trying to raise a family thinking IT was their ticket to the American dream.

The important thing to remember is that the economy is secondary to our security as a nation. Kerry has no plan on the table that will do anything to stem the offshoring. The same way he has no plan to protect this country.

This guy had to be blind not to see the writing on the wall. Now he's complaining??

To be fair; even if he suspected that a layoff was probable, there is not a whole lot that you can do about it. This is an industry wide problem. It is not like your company is laying off and the guys down the street are hiring. Perhaps he could have taken a hike down to the local health care facility:

Guy: I need a new job, my employer is going to
outsource my position.

Facility: Well we were looking for a brain surgeon...

Guy: Can I train on-the-job?

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