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An Open letter to President Bush (End run vs. Outsourcing)
Me | Me

Posted on 04/09/2004 12:22:04 PM PDT by Havoc

Dear Mr. President,

You don't know me, nor do I expect you to. But I'm one of those voices out here in the ether that actually did vote for you. I'm not one of those seminar caller types nor a Democrat pretending at being a republican to subvert the party faithful in dishonest fashion because their ideas aren't popular enough to win them anything. No, I'm a life-long republican who cherishes the memory of Ronald Reagan and who thought highly of you right up to the time you sunk a knife in my back economically.

Sir I understand it's a hard job being president. I also understand that in IT my job causes me to have to think on my feet and respond to an everchanging environment just to keep it. And while I was busting my behind for a company I happened to love doing a job I happened to love, you decided it's a good thing to do an endrun around equal protection and hand my job to a Mexican worker at 1/3 of the rate I'm being paid. Sir, Retail employees get paid more than that Full time and they're earning below the poverty level. The Job I hold for the moment requires a lot of hard work and problem solving skills, it requires good customer care skills, and it requires a long knowledge of Computers and software I didn't get from a degree but from practical experience.

I worked long and hard for years looking for the break that would get me in the door with my current employer. And I currently have a carreer with them. Or had, rather. I've worked for EDS for nearly 4 years. I will lose my job just short of that anniversary or just after it depending on how the breakdown happens.

I have a handicap that keeps me from driving a car. Not an official handicap, because it's so rare a problem that 1/2 of 1% of Americans have the condition so it doesn't rate being called what it is. I'm a blip on the screen. But, it means I have to live close to my employer and sometimes rely on others to help me get things done. I've lost everything and put my life back together 3 times in 15 years sir. And having just accomplished it again after 4 years with my employer, your policy has killed any protection I might have otherwise enjoyed from having my job destroyed by foriegn competition. And it puts me right back on the brink again. Sir, if I don't stand a chance of winning, it isn't competition - it's fish in a barrel. Where is my equal protection under the law?

The "competition" didn't get hired because of race or creed; but, because of national origin. They got hired because their cost of living is low enough that they can be paid sub-poverty wages to do my job. They are taking my job because they aren't constrained by the laws we have in this country to protect us and preserve our liberties. Lower cost of living, and no laws to constrain them. See, we used to have what was called ANTI-DUMPING laws on the books before Nafta to prevent the subversion of our economy by those who would attempt to compete on an unfair basis and put American firms out of business. We aren't a global economy, the globe is not the United States of America. They don't respect our rights, our Constitution, our laws or ourselves. The average citizen of the world might; but, we aren't dealing with them, we're dealing with the leaders who have their boots on the neck of the citizen of the world.

It seems today that I have to be a Mexican to get a fair shake in America. There are some 8 million of them here illegally as a tax on our system and working here taking jobs that Americans can do; but, which apparently, nobody wants to offer a fair wage for as long as they can get slave labor off the books. That isn't enough though. We need to employ More workers from Mexico, India, China.. As long as we're doing it, sire, why not be obvious and lets put Sally Struthers on the TV to advertise IT Jobs for the people under repressive regimes in africa who can live on 52 cents a day, "the price of a cup of coffee." I don't care what color their skin is, No citizen of the United states could live on that and shouldn't be asked to compete with it. It's too blatently obvious that it's unfair. And that seems to be why it's "good for us all".

Your policy sir. It's you on the tube telling me it's good for me to lose my job to a Mexican worker outside of our system and in a manner with which I cannot compete. There isn't a job comparable to it here that I can take to make up the difference cause those are being outsourced too. Outsourced. How about endran. Because sir, that is what is happening - it's an end run around our system - around our rights, our laws, our constitutional provisions and protections. Your policy has relieved me of my job without due process. It tied my hands before I had a chance to respond. And so many businesses are being forced to do the same thing, that I don't stand a chance any more than those earning 3 times what I do in the same field who have lost their jobs already and have had to take 11k a year Retail jobs just to eat while their houses go up for sale.

I don't have a degree. I don't get retraining. I just get to lose my job at the whim of your policies and will likely lose more than that in the end. You see, I bought a new home too - a year ago. This job made it possible for me to do that. And as with my Job, I had to get a huge break to be able to pull it off. I've been behind you and a cheerleader of yours since I first heard you speak. I understand that the tanking economy isn't your fault. I understand it isn't your fault we were attacked. I understand and agree with pretty much everything you've done to date, sir. This however is in my mind beyond sickening. It is a betrayal of myself, my coworkers and every other hard working IT worker, Auto worker, etc that has lost their job due to this. It is a betrayal by their government and their employer. And it's a distrust you've earned by subverting them and me. For me, it's not just my Government, it's my own party.

Now I've heard all the arguments for outsourcing and all the copout phrases about what we do about companies that have outsourced to the US. Tell me, sir, how many of them outsourced to do an endrun around their system of government, their constitution, their laws and their workers. How many of them outsourced to us to produce goods for their home market. That isn't an argument that flies with me in the face of doing an endrun around us. They've built plants in our land and are working within our market, within it's rules, within our laws, within the constraints of our constitution and are paying a competative wage. Our companies are doing the opposite. And any way you cut it, it is economic and constitutional tyranny. I'm not a single issue voter sir, until that single issue is my life and livelihood.. until members of my own party call me a robber and a thief for expecting to keep my job when I've worked my behind off to do so.

I did it right. I've busted my backside under an ever increasing workload, kept my promise to my employer and my client. Never missed a metric, never dropped the ball for either of them and have always exceeded expectation as a member of one of the best teams on this planet in my humble opinion. My job is gone not because we didn't produce and not because either couldn't afford it; but, because Mexicans work cheaper and don't have our protections, laws, rights or constitution. I have a strong work ethic and a loyalty to my company that even now makes me shudder to say a bad word about them. I have no illusions; but, I was raised that if you do your best it pays off. I know now that if you do your best, you get kicked in the teeth just as hard, and if you get ahead a little bit, the government will be there to kick you back down. I appreciate how hard your job is. Mine is pretty dang hard too. But how about you and everyone in government work for $600 a month from now on like the Mexican workers replacing us. How about you all work for the income you're forcing me into. If it's good for us, it should be good for you too. You, and all the ivory tower types in our party that hiss at me for being upset over losing my job and wanting to defend myself. How would that be, sir? I'd just as soon see little Tommy Daschle and Ted Kennedy go fly a kite as hear them spout one more offensive evil lie about you. But I'd just as soon, too, see you join them holding the string if you're gonna ruin me and tell me it's good for me. How about if we just outsource your jobs too - oh, wait, that would be unconstitutional too, wouldn't it.


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: bush; endrun; immigration; newslavery; outsourcing
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To: 1rudeboy
290 - "But apparently, I have read Marx, and you have not."

Read a lot of marx do you?
301 posted on 04/10/2004 8:40:18 PM PDT by XBob
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To: Havoc
I've already been beaten into reconsidering my registration by some of you. I ain't a democrat, never have been and never will be; but, I'm wondering now why I'm republican, cause some of you make me ashamed of the word.

Know that we do really have a big tent in the GOP, and more than a few common values. I truly am sorry about your job, and wish you all the good fortune in the world. Keep your chin up and a positive outlook, and I wager that you will find an even better situation real soon.

Free trade is good economics and good for the economy as a whole, I believe. The US in a net beneficiary in outsourcing, believe it or not. However, I know that is cold comfort to one who has recently had a job outsourced to another country.

Good luck and keep the faith!

302 posted on 04/10/2004 8:42:28 PM PDT by Tennessean4Bush (An optimist believes we live in the best of all possible worlds, a pessimist fears this is true.)
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To: 1rudeboy
290 - "But apparently, I have read Marx, and you have not."

Read a lot of marx do you?

Isn't it in his name that Stalin killed off those millions of Kulaks by starving them out?

Let them eat cake ?


303 posted on 04/10/2004 8:42:44 PM PDT by XBob
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To: 1rudeboy
293 - "Good grief. What about gas prices?"

See, you policies are working already. All those blankety blank free trers making all that extra money. Aint it lovely?
304 posted on 04/10/2004 8:45:21 PM PDT by XBob
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To: 1rudeboy
If the U.S. issues a bond, and subsequently devalues its currency, then it will cost less for the U.S. to pay it off. I cannot make it any more simple than that.

I think I know where you are coming from. In the past we have managed to inflate our way out of national and personal debt, and that inflation did have a corresponding dollar depreciation. The difference is that we no longer have a strong manufacturing base, nor a solid technological advantage. The days when we had standby capacity and could add a shift or two to buy market share based on currency advantage are largely gone.

Our economy is no longer strong enough to benefit from the depreciating currency. Our currency has already devalued by 20-30% against the EURO and other leading currencies, but we have not seen any job growth, nor certainly much wage inflation. The only inflation that the system has generated is the cost push inflation that is directly driven by the weakening dollar.

There are no US based TV or stereo manufacturers; few consumer product makers, our garment industries are in taters, and even our heavy industries are largely dependent on imported components. Ford can only produce as many Explorers as they can get engines for from Japan and transmissions for from Germany; And, no one is going to re-engineer the car, or build an entire engine plant, until they have a reasonable expectation that the currency valuation has stabilized.

This is no longer a robust economy. Currency devaluation without other intervention to ensure that we have a broader manufacturing base, is just a recipe for disaster.
305 posted on 04/10/2004 8:47:50 PM PDT by ARCADIA (Abuse of power comes as no surprise)
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To: XBob
Not if you are paid in Euro's

True. Unfortunately, most of the slobs that we are worried about are paid in dollars.
306 posted on 04/10/2004 8:51:33 PM PDT by ARCADIA (Abuse of power comes as no surprise)
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To: Iscool
Likely a lot of these FReepers are small, self-employed businessfolk who are making a killing off selling us this cheap Chinese junk for American made prices and they can't stand the thought of anyone being pro-America enough to question their un-American business practices...

straw man
n. [2] An argument or opponent set up so as to be easily refuted or defeated.

307 posted on 04/10/2004 8:51:58 PM PDT by Tennessean4Bush (An optimist believes we live in the best of all possible worlds, a pessimist fears this is true.)
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To: ARCADIA
...until they have a reasonable expectation that the currency valuation has stabilized.

Stabilized? Define stabilized. I have never seen it stabilized. It always fluctuates. It bubbles up, it bubbles down. Do you mean in a certain range and within specific tolerances? If so, what exactly are the tolerances you think are necessary for industry or foreign capital projects to locate in the US? I am eager to read your pronouncement.

308 posted on 04/10/2004 8:57:51 PM PDT by Tennessean4Bush (An optimist believes we live in the best of all possible worlds, a pessimist fears this is true.)
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To: Asclepius
should have stuck with those jobs, but they dried up, when we got to the moon (I am from Cape Canaveral), and there were no jobs to be had of any kind, went back to school and got 'retrained' and 'upgraded' my skills to military, and when the Vietnam war jobs dried up, I went into oil, and when that dried up (in the oil crash of the 80's), I went into working on the shuttle to recover from the Challenger fiasco.

So - I've been through it, training, and training, and retraining and retraining.
309 posted on 04/10/2004 8:58:27 PM PDT by XBob
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To: Tennessean4Bush
Wait till they outsource you. Mine happened not because my company got a bright idea; but, because of competition. The client we support is dragging my desk to Mexico and pushing it's US suppliers into having to outsource or lose their contracts.. It's one of the big 3.

I've talked to people at this point who were making 80-100k a year as engineers who are working now in Kmart, Target, and McDonalds cause they can't get anything else. That is money that isn't in this economy anymore. If it isn't here - it ain't here for you anymore than it is for me and primarily for them.

You've got people retraining who now find their degrees are no good. There is a person on this thread who has multiple degrees from multiple retraining efforts and his degrees are no good to him. What we're essentially being told by practical experience is all our money should be spent on our job in order to keep our job; but, it isn't our job, so don't expect to keep it. I spent 10 years in sales and I couldn't sell that on my best day. People aren't going to stand for being told they have to be professional students and be displaced everytime they sneeze because their employers can't be trusted, are unreliable and basically liars. And it doesn't seem to occur to any of you how subversive that is. As I've noted many times, ya'll are brewin the ingredients for a war.
310 posted on 04/10/2004 9:00:46 PM PDT by Havoc ("The line must be drawn here. This far and no further!")
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To: Tennessean4Bush
Wait till they outsource you. Mine happened not because my company got a bright idea; but, because of competition. The client we support is dragging my desk to Mexico and pushing it's US suppliers into having to outsource or lose their contracts.. It's one of the big 3.

I've talked to people at this point who were making 80-100k a year as engineers who are working now in Kmart, Target, and McDonalds cause they can't get anything else. That is money that isn't in this economy anymore. If it isn't here - it ain't here for you anymore than it is for me and primarily for them.

You've got people retraining who now find their degrees are no good. There is a person on this thread who has multiple degrees from multiple retraining efforts and his degrees are no good to him. What we're essentially being told by practical experience is all our money should be spent on our job in order to keep our job; but, it isn't our job, so don't expect to keep it. I spent 10 years in sales and I couldn't sell that on my best day. People aren't going to stand for being told they have to be professional students and be displaced everytime they sneeze because their employers can't be trusted, are unreliable and basically liars. And it doesn't seem to occur to any of you how subversive that is. As I've noted many times, ya'll are brewin the ingredients for a war.
311 posted on 04/10/2004 9:00:51 PM PDT by Havoc ("The line must be drawn here. This far and no further!")
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To: ARCADIA; 1rudeboy
excellent summary.

It seems as if neither Bush 2, nor wild child can figure this out.
312 posted on 04/10/2004 9:04:52 PM PDT by XBob
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To: ARCADIA
306 - "Not if you are paid in Euro's
True. Unfortunately, most of the slobs that we are worried about are paid in dollars."

But the stuff we are buying, importing, which we are paying for in dollars, and being paid with in dollars, that stuff needs to be paid for in Euro's, or in devalued dollars. Since last summer, prices for metals and other commodities procured overseas have increased by 40%, so our imports, which are becoming the majority of our purchases, are going up markedly, while our pay is not.
313 posted on 04/10/2004 9:09:29 PM PDT by XBob
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To: Tennessean4Bush
Define stabilized.

You need to have a currency that will hold within a given range. If the dollar is likely to hold at year 2000 less 10-20% over the next couple of years then you can begin to build a business case based on that assumption. If it simply goes into free fall you are in trouble. Each percentage of drop means that your US domestic demand can be significantly impacted, that banks and other creditors may become insolvent, that the political balance may shift against you, that other countries may further insulate themselves from US exports, and so on....

In some parts of Latin America it is not unusual to see wages, rents and pricing negotiated on a weekly/daily basis. That is not the kind of environment that would attract alot of investment. The usual result is capital flight to safer currencies.
314 posted on 04/10/2004 9:14:05 PM PDT by ARCADIA (Abuse of power comes as no surprise)
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To: Tennessean4Bush
308 - "Stabilized? Define stabilized. I have never seen it stabilized. It always fluctuates."

You are too young. It was quite stable in the 50's, 60's, and early 70's, until Nixon took us off the gold standard and let everything 'float'. We had a great economy and great low interest rates and stable prices, and low taxes, and a man with one job could support a wife and family.

Getting off the gold standard has blown stability out of the water.
315 posted on 04/10/2004 9:15:36 PM PDT by XBob
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To: ARCADIA
The usual result is capital flight to safer currencies.

And that happens immediately. The market is watched and played in realtime - investors don't wait 2 years to make a decision about whether something is really going south or not, they sell at the first sign and stay away till there is reason to believe it a wise move to reinvest if that point comes at all. It doesn't seem to matter what minute detail of this get's looked at under the microscope, it is all bad.

316 posted on 04/10/2004 9:17:45 PM PDT by Havoc ("The line must be drawn here. This far and no further!")
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To: XBob
so our imports, which are becoming the majority of our purchases, are going up markedly, while our pay is not.

That was the concern I was trying to express in post #276.
317 posted on 04/10/2004 9:21:32 PM PDT by ARCADIA (Abuse of power comes as no surprise)
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To: Havoc
I spent 10 years in sales...

If you are looking for a relatively outsource-proof occupation with unlimited opportunity, sales is it. A good salesperson is extremely hard to find and to keep. While we may disagree on many things, we both would agree the US is far-and-away the world's largest consumer of goods. A veritable playground for salespeople.

Look, I don't want to argue with you. Obviously you are hurt by your circumstance (who wouldn't be if they lose a job?). I hope you will be able at some point to see the path to a better situation for yourself. I truly wish you all the luck and good fortune in the world in your endeavors.

318 posted on 04/10/2004 9:23:01 PM PDT by Tennessean4Bush (An optimist believes we live in the best of all possible worlds, a pessimist fears this is true.)
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To: XBob
Getting off the gold standard has blown stability out of the water.

Aha! That explains it. You are a gold standard guy. What was it, $35/ounce before we went off the gold standard? Yes, you are right, I was about 9 years old when US left the gold standard.

319 posted on 04/10/2004 9:26:33 PM PDT by Tennessean4Bush (An optimist believes we live in the best of all possible worlds, a pessimist fears this is true.)
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To: Havoc
It doesn't seem to matter what minute detail of this get's looked at under the microscope, it is all bad.

That, ironically enough, may be our only saving grace. All the players are aware of the risks, and reasonable people do not want to collapse the system and risk a major global war. We can only pray that reasonable people prevail.
320 posted on 04/10/2004 9:29:31 PM PDT by ARCADIA (Abuse of power comes as no surprise)
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