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Keep bases here, Germany implores U.S.
AP Wire | March 28 2004 | MELISSA EDDY/AP

Posted on 03/28/2004 5:36:02 AM PST by knighthawk

WUERZBURG, Germany - As host to 170,000 American soldiers and dependents, Germany has a lot to lose under Pentagon plans to shift forces out of western Europe, and officials in areas facing a pinch are lobbying heavily for them to stay.

Economic survival for their communities, more than security, is the concern for these supporters of a continued U.S. presence in their regions, where ties are deeply rooted despite Germans' current criticism of U.S. policy in Iraq.

Many of the communities depend on business and jobs generated by the bases, located mainly in economically weak regions of southern and western Germany.

''We realized that our installations are in grave danger,'' said Karl Peter Bruch, a state official in Rhineland-Palatinate who heads an effort to lobby U.S. officials. ``And then came the question, what can we do to make us more attractive?''

The tactic has drawn mixed reviews from the Americans, who have some 80,000 military personnel with 94,000 family members in Germany.

The issue has nothing to do with Germany being unattractive, U.S. officials say. It's part of a global realignment to meet changing threats centered in Central Asia and the Middle East.

''We're still sitting where we were at the end of the Cold War,'' said Air Force Maj. Gen. Jeffrey Kohler, the U.S. European Command's point man on planning for force realignment.

But letting go is not easy for towns like Wuerzburg, where the U.S. Army's 1st Infantry Division has been stationed since after World War II. It is frequently mentioned as a candidate to return to the United States.

At a recent farewell ceremony for soldiers departing Wuerzburg for Iraq, Bavaria's governor stressed the Army's importance to his state.

'Dear soldiers, your presence in Bavaria . . . is indispensable to peace and stability in Europe and is a key element in our trans-Atlantic relations. The U.S. Army, `our' 1st Infantry Division, must remain in Bavaria,'' said Gov. Edmund Stoiber, a leading conservative who narrowly lost national elections in 2002 to Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder's Social Democrats.

STRAINED RELATIONS

Schroeder's relations with Washington were strained by his strong opposition to attacking Saddam Hussein's regime. But U.S. officials made it clear they're pulling forces out of Germany because of the changed international threat, not as punishment.

Nonetheless, German officials aren't giving up. Mayors from host cities across Bavaria and Rhineland-Palatinate traveled to Washington in the fall to argue the benefits of keeping bases in Germany: solid infrastructure, good quality of life and decades-old friendships.

Even though critical sites in Rhineland-Palatinate such as Ramstein Air Base and the Landstuhl medical center appear likely to stay, Bruch figures his state should do even more, since entire regions depend heavily on the $1.4 billion and 27,000 local jobs the U.S. military generates.

With German-U.S. working groups, Bruch toured all the American bases in the state to learn what they need and what would make them attractive to the restructured U.S. military.

HOUSING

A key issue was decrepit housing that didn't meet the latest U.S. security needs, so Bruch has raised about $130 million in private funds for renovation and construction of new housing for the Americans.

He also hired a Washington-based consultant and traveled to the U.S. capital to make his case. American officials reacted positively and invited him to return this spring with concrete plans for new military housing, Bruch said.

''There had been other delegations, including one from Bavaria that talked about how beautiful the mountains are,'' Bruch said. ``But we were the only Germans who went there and presented a concept.''

While in Washington, Bruch also learned more about the U.S. Army's introduction of small, highly mobile units called Stryker brigades. U.S. officials are looking to base them at strategic locations where they can train but also be ready to deploy quickly.

''That would be ideal for Baumholder,'' Bruch said, referring to a base with a large training area near Ramstein where parts of the 1st Infantry Division are now stationed. He plans to make that pitch in Washington.

Officials at European Command say they expect to have a solid picture of the future force structure in Germany by early spring.

TASK FORCE

Some cities are not waiting to find out if they are on the list of closings.

In Bamberg, which also hosts units of the 1st Infantry Division, city officials have set up a task force to grapple with issues like a flooded real estate market if the Army should vacate its 500 apartments.


TOPICS: Germany; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bases; germany; militarybases; newnwo
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To: knighthawk
In Bamberg, which also hosts units of the 1st Infantry Division, city officials have set up a task force to grapple with issues like a flooded real estate market if the Army should vacate its 500 apartments.

Lower rents, lower prices...what's wrong with that? A little economics 101 can only help these krauts.

121 posted on 03/28/2004 6:09:25 PM PST by eleni121 (Preempt and Prevent---then Destroy)
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To: knighthawk
Thank you, Knighthawk.

122 posted on 03/28/2004 7:50:49 PM PST by Spirited
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To: mystery-ak
Thank you for that input.

We need to get our guys into areas where they will be welcomed. That is not Germany. We need out......
123 posted on 03/28/2004 7:53:41 PM PST by Spirited
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To: knighthawk
Ping me please...thanks!
124 posted on 03/28/2004 9:52:54 PM PST by lainde (Heads up...We're coming and we've got tongue blades!!)
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A key issue was decrepit housing that didn't meet the latest U.S. security needs, so Bruch has raised about $130 million in private funds for renovation and construction of new housing for the Americans.

That amazes me; I've not heard of a host country doing such a thing before.

125 posted on 03/28/2004 10:01:36 PM PST by GretchenEE (May the Lord give our enemies into our hands, quickly.)
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To: mikenola

The US military plants have not produced conventional submarines in the last 40 years. Germany produces conventional sub's that run on oxygen and liquid hydrogen.

They refused the U.S.'s desire to sell conventional subs to Taiwan and Germany supports the "One China" policy. They also support China's attempts to stop a U.S. missile defense system.

Some allies, why in the world they were ever considered allies after starting two world wars I'll never understand.
126 posted on 03/29/2004 5:29:22 AM PST by MissAmericanPie
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To: SLB
Ditto. I have about 5 years of service in Germany and it was a great experience.

But on my first tour, my German landlady was always whining about how it was time for the Americans to leave (as she happily took my rent money!). Then the Wall came down and we closed several kasernes in that area. The last time I paid the rent she was in tears, having seen what an impact our pull-out was having on the local economy. After listening to her whine for 3 years I just said, "Well, it looks like you got exactly what you wanted!"

Yeah, Poland, the Czech Republic, Hungary, Slovakia, Slovenia -- I'm sure they'd be happy to have us train there. We can probably find a few old Russian kasernes to renevate as well!

127 posted on 03/29/2004 8:38:32 AM PST by Matthew James (SPEARHEAD!)
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To: MissAmericanPie
The only thing that has changed about the aggressive German mindset is the absense of a Hitler.

This is a point to worry about. Let's say that the US pulls its bases and accompanying dollars, further stagnating the Germans' already lethargic economy. How long will it take for a new "charismatic" leader to emerge, promising to restore Germanys' rightful place in the world by any means necessary. It may not be fair, but Deutsland does have a track record.

128 posted on 03/29/2004 9:12:15 AM PST by AngryJawa (Cranky R.A.M. Stormtrooper)
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To: knighthawk
Schroeder's relations with Washington were strained by his strong opposition to attacking Saddam Hussein's regime.

But now we are supposed to feel pangs of guilt that the Germans will not continue to get over a billion US tax dollars?

Lets play a game Germany, a one word response to that comes to mind from the American military when the Germans were last trying to push them around .

Nuts!


129 posted on 03/29/2004 9:54:08 AM PST by PeoplesRep_of_LA (I am no longer afraid to publicly say I love Jesus, thanks Mel)
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To: mystery-ak
Hi mystery-ak. I have been on other threads lately, but I always have you and your guys on my mind. Hope everything turns out fine for Mike and that he is home soon.
130 posted on 03/29/2004 10:41:25 PM PST by TexKat (Just because you did not see it or read it, that does not mean it did or did not happen.)
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To: knighthawk
Too little, too late Germany. Bite my weinerschnitzel.
131 posted on 03/29/2004 10:54:41 PM PST by Fledermaus (Ðíé F£éðérmáú§ ^;;^ says, "I give Dick Clarke's American Grandstand a 39...you can't dance to it.")
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To: sumocide
4,000 troops mostly for medical services, on ships protecting shipping lanes, and some security.

About 100 special forces.

Token support from Germany at best.
132 posted on 03/29/2004 11:01:22 PM PST by Fledermaus (Ðíé F£éðérmáú§ ^;;^ says, "I give Dick Clarke's American Grandstand a 39...you can't dance to it.")
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To: Michael81Dus
Where does CentCom separate them? Iraq is a BATTLE in the WAR on TERROR. Not a separate engagement at all.

133 posted on 03/29/2004 11:05:52 PM PST by Fledermaus (Ðíé F£éðérmáú§ ^;;^ says, "I give Dick Clarke's American Grandstand a 39...you can't dance to it.")
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To: facedown
Poland has better looking women too.
134 posted on 03/29/2004 11:10:18 PM PST by dfwgator
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To: Drammach
"I wouldn't want to be like you"
"You lie down with dogs" (you get up with fleas)

It's all psychobabble rap to me.

135 posted on 03/29/2004 11:12:38 PM PST by dfwgator
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To: Michael81Dus
Unlike Afghanistan, Iraq did not pose an immediate threat to the western world.

Bullhockey! You must be very young and don't remember what Iraq has done since the mid-1980's.

Iraq was only tolerated during it's war with Iran because Iran was a bigger threat to the world...and still is.

But once Iraq invaded Kuwait, it was a new ballgame. It became clear Saddam was going to fight the western world by trying to control the oil supply.

We stopped him and then did nothing to contain him. Twelve years and 15 unenforced UN resolutions later, a new sheriff came to town and after 9/11 it was time to put up or shut up.

The UN following France, Germany and Russia decided to shut up. Your PM Shroeder decided to save his own hide instead of leading by blasting America to the far left to get re-elected. What a coward. You deserve a snake like that running your country into the ground.

Iraq was supporting, training, and paying terrorists around the world. Some of the 9/11 hijackers had a cell in GERMANY! Saddam paid Palestinian terrorist' families after they blew themselves up. Saddam harbored terrorists from Hamas, Hezzbollah, and Al-Qaeda. He had training facilities in Iraq teaching them how to hijack planes.

But it's great to see you Germans now care about 'sovereign' countries.

136 posted on 03/29/2004 11:17:00 PM PST by Fledermaus (Ðíé F£éðérmáú§ ^;;^ says, "I give Dick Clarke's American Grandstand a 39...you can't dance to it.")
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To: Michael81Dus
Excuse me, but following your reasons: why are the regimes in Iran, N Korea, Syria, etc still in power?

You are a fool.

That is the most inept argument only made by those with no ability to make their case against the US going into Iraq. It's childish and ridiculous. It's like saying, "hey, why arrest me for murder when that guy is jaywalking?".

And as soon as Iran, Syria and N. Korea are confronted, you'll be here whining about them too. Don't think you won't. Try using some brain cells.

137 posted on 03/29/2004 11:26:30 PM PST by Fledermaus (Ðíé F£éðérmáú§ ^;;^ says, "I give Dick Clarke's American Grandstand a 39...you can't dance to it.")
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To: Michael81Dus
You weren't misinterpreted...you just now can't take the fact your words have been ripped apart. Face it, you lost the argument and you have no basis in actual fact to back up your totally ridiculous assertions.
138 posted on 03/29/2004 11:28:30 PM PST by Fledermaus (Ðíé F£éðérmáú§ ^;;^ says, "I give Dick Clarke's American Grandstand a 39...you can't dance to it.")
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To: OrioleFan
I was thinking they should rely on the UN for their defense.
139 posted on 03/29/2004 11:33:52 PM PST by rightwingcrazy
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To: knighthawk
Get them out of there. Put them on our borders where they could at least do some good. Screw the German economy.
140 posted on 03/29/2004 11:37:07 PM PST by Joe Hadenuf (I failed anger management class, they decided to give me a passing grade anyway)
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