Gibson's passion film 'too Catholic'

Belfast Telegraph ^ | 19 March 2004 | Alf McCreary

[presidio9]

THE controversial Mel Gibson film 'The Passion of the Christ' has been dismissed by the Evangelical Protestant Society as a 'Catholic' interpretation of events which "does not present the Gospel".

Wallace Thompson, secretary of the Evangelical Protestant Society, said the film displayed "an un-Biblical fixation on Mary, the mother of Jesus. None of this should surprise us, for both Mel Gibson and Jim Caviezel, who plays the part of Christ, are enthusiastic devotees of the traditional teachings of the Church of Rome."

He further claims that Mel Gibson "belongs to an ultra-conservative Catholic group which does not recognise the reforms of Vatican II, and celebrates Mass in Latin".

Mr Thompson says that "this malign influence of Rome ought to cause all evangelical Protestants to reject The Passion of the Christ" and refuse to be swayed by the subtleties of the alleged arguments in favour of it.

Sadly, however, it will be welcomed and praised by many who ought to know better."

Mr Thompson also says that the film is "extremely violent", and that "anyone who watches it will be shaken and possibly terrified by its graphic and bloody scenes."

[Cronos]

This post has been a revelation. I found out from the Great One Havo-uh-Akbhar and his Profit Reg (pbuh) and the Profit's son-in-law Hussen ET that:

1. CAtholics worship Mary as God
2. Catholics worship the Pope as God
3. Catholics worship the Sun as God

Revelations... </sarcasm. I think Salve was correct, this is a bunch of slammies trying to split up Christian unity -- notice that the great one said in a post that he was not Catholic or Baptist or Orthodox or any other mainstream Protestant group.

[Cronos]

Why doesn't the Statue of Liberty embrace a child, rather than a tablet?

huh???? Dazed are the followers of the Great Hvoc and his profit Reg (pbuh), they all are doped on Hashish it seems -- Hashashins. The Statue of liberty was never meant to be a depiction of Mary with The Child Jesus. Which world are you guys from? Saudi A?

[Cronos]

Pssssst. When in Rome ..... ..... don't bend over!

True, those Italians drive like crazy!!

[Cronos]

I really don't know why I bother.

I gave up trying to debate sensibly with the followers of Hav and His Profit Reg (pbuh), now I'm just here for the laughs (and there are plenty of them!)

[Cronos]

Actually it's Vicki of C = lion tosser = Aunty of C. So that's why Gene Robinson is a Vicki too -- he's an Aunty/Queen.....

[Cronos]

Jesus taught that every sin warrants eternal punishment in hell

Yup, there you have it Petronski, if you tell your wife she doesn't look fat in that dress, you're going to hell. Of course, if you DID tell her she did look fat, then you're going to hell too, Catch 22.

[Cronos]

Amazingly, the Catholic Church condemns and curses anyone who believes the wonderful truths revealed in the above verses

The Church holds those to be truths and that means that it condemns itself??? No. The church does believe in grace and deeds go naturally to one filled with grace. One filled with grace would find it hard to sin.

[iconoclast]

My last (I hope) thought about this thread is that at a time in our history when we are treading water in a cultural cesspool, Christians should all be pulling together and supporting one another.

And yet here we have the age old, wacked out hate that we would have hoped would have disappeared ages ago.

[Cronos]

My last (I hope) thought about this thread is that at a time in our history when we are treading water in a cultural cesspool, Christians should all be pulling together and supporting one another. And yet here we have the age old, wacked out hate that we would have hoped would have disappeared ages ago.

Amen to that brother. A lot of luggage on BOTH sides needs to be junked out -- we face a common enemy, the Devill Alllah and must unite. When Christendomm is united it can overcome anything -- as Charles Martel, Geoffrey Baldwin, Jan Sobieski displayed.

[Qwinn]

I just spent over an hour reading the last 8 or 9 pages of this thread (having read the first bunch of pages earlier).

Actually, I need to take that back. First, I read the last page, and from reading just that one, I thought Havoc must have the upper hand in the debate. I mean, he still sounds so damn confident, and people aren't trying to argue with him anymore...

Then I went back, and read from 8 pages or so back.

I would now like to summarize some of the most stupid, ignorant statements I have ever heard on Free Republic:

1) "It is you guys who are not allowed to read and use your brains. The minute you have a thought contrary to the teaching of your church, you stand on the verge of being condenmed to Hell by them - excommunicant. Or are we not supposed to make that known here."

This, to me, is the absolute winner. The ignorance required to post this baffles the imagination. OH YEAH, the Pope and Rome are just swinging that big excommunication bat around like a big old steel-plated baseball bat, striking down anyone who claims to be Catholic who even -thinks- about dissenting, that's why John Kerry and several dozen other legislators get to cheer on abortion and never get excommunicated!

2) "The problem is you aren't allowed to speculate as to whether Rome is right or not." Yup, that badass Church is just smackin' down all those uppity liberal Catholics all over the place - they don't -dare- question the Church's non-negotiable stances on contraception, abortion, and remarriage. Here - I'll fill you in on a little secret. All those strayed Catholics, they use condoms, they have and support abortions, they get remarried all the time, but in the deep dark night, each Church brings them all into a dark dungeon in the middle of the night and FLOGS them for it. So if they didn't -know- they couldn't disobey the Church, they sure know after! And they're told -never to tell- anyone about the flogging too, cause if they do, they'll get flogged again! And then... the Comfy Chair!

3) "Asked. Answered. Next". This wouldn't be so ignorant if it were in any way true, except it isn't. I'm -still- waiting to hear an answer to the points made in #901, where Havoc is nailed for introducing what can only be a deliberate misquote of a prayer as evidence.

4) Catholics worship Mary... *rolls eyes* Why? Because they give her divine powers... if she weren't divine, she couldn't hear prayers launched at her from all over the planet. Never mind that all the saints, really, any human being in heaven is ascribed those same abilities, -as given to them by God-. Nope. Mary's the problem. Hey, you Catholics, you worship Mary like she's a deity. No. Really. Havoc says so. Never mind that it's not true. Never mind that you know you don't. Never mind that the Church -actively states- that Mary is not a deity. He's TELLING you that the Church says she's a deity, and that you think she's a deity. And he obviously knows who you worship and who you don't. Why should we listen to -you-? Next thing you know, you'll be claiming you can speak for yourselves! *sigh*

5) The arrogance required to interpret the Bible in such a way that bearing false witness to your wife when you tell her that her dress DOESN'T make her look fat is just as hell-worthy and damning a sin as blowing up several hundred people as a suicide bomber... AND THAT IS THE ONLY POSSIBLE INTERPRETATION OF THE BIBLE THAT ALSO ACKNOWLEDGES A MERCIFUL GOD... I am quite frankly amazed.

And this is just the ones that stand out in my mind. I won't even go into ET's delusional rants.

Havoc, if the Communists aren't paying you, you're getting ripped off.

By the way, I'm agnostic, and I don't have a dog in this fight. I -do- find Bible study fascinating, and have a great deal of respect for Christianity and -particularly- Catholicism for the exact reason that it has managed to avoid the exact kind of lunatic fundamentalism being expoused by some here.

To the Catholics on this thread who have done a marvelous job defending their faith against slander, let me just point out that even this cynical agnostic finds your arguments a thousand times more coherent AND consistent with what the Bible actually says than anything Havoc has spouted.

BTW, Havoc, in all your incessant pounding of quotes out of Paul concerning faith vs. works, I guess you believe James was just kinda mistaken?

James 2:14: What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him?

James 2:17: So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead.

James 2:24: You see that a man is justified by works and not by his faith alone.

By every standard you have applied to Catholics, Havoc, you call James a liar. Deal with it.

Qwinn

[Qwinn]

ROFL... I just want it on record, when I posted my own "tell your wife she looks fat in that dress" analogy, I -hadn't- seen yours yet! That was very much a GMTA, heheheh.

Qwinn

[Cronos]

Some other cool quotes from Hav:

Peter wasn't the Bishop of Rome. And Pope is the title, not Bishop. Remember "Vicar of Christ". That title came from the Roman Emperors. In place of Christ = antichrist.
Amazing how that works isn't it. Now, are you going to just continue sniping with soundbites and claims or are you going to eventually say something?

929 posted on 03/22/2004 11:30:02 AM PST by Havoc

 

It has spread it's own words and you are changing the subject. Rome's fruits include the inquisitions, the happenings of the Crusades. The persecution of the Jews - when, btw, did Rome finally recognize Israel as a state? And why is Rome trying to internationalize Jarusalem? OOPS. I understand that Rome thinks Catholicism has replaced Israel as the chosen people; but, that ain't scriptural either. You guys are saturated with the unscriptural. So I'll repeat - making claims in spite of the truth isn't truth. It's a facade.

927 posted on 03/22/2004 11:26:21 AM PST by Havoc

 

 

Havoc (#1054): Can't refute the scriptures, so as the pharisees with christ, you attempt to refute me with personal attacks and slurs.
Havoc (#1094): Need a hammer and nails? Trees are a dime a dozen.
Havoc (#1102): Hey, I didn't claim to Be Jesus. The problem for you is, what if I were? Look at the topic of this thread. Not one of you had the sense to even question if I might be right.
Havoc (#1104): I have no reason to backpedal. None whatsoever.
Reg (#1105): The point is you long ago gave away any pretense of independant thinking. You gave your will and intellect to your Bishops and will dance to any tune they play.

Havoc (#1114): God loves ya. But you might consider finding Christ. Cause this thread is a really bad witness for ya'll.
Havoc (#1117): Hmm, who do we believe - the guy that gives us the straight dope on salvation, or the ones that condemn us for believing him. Tough choice.
Havoc (#1135): Thank you again kind sir. You are a wonder to behold :) LOL

I'm compiling the collected sayings of Havoc and his Profit Reg (pbuh), the SCARY-aah. This will be an accompaniment to the KORN which contains Surahs ans Suptras about Vicki, Luci and the Hell time orchestra.

[Havoc]

Peter wasn't the Bishop of Rome. And Pope is the title, not Bishop. Remember "Vicar of Christ". That title came from the Roman Emperors. In place of Christ = antichrist.
Amazing how that works isn't it. Now, are you going to just continue sniping with soundbites and claims or are you going to eventually say something?

[Havoc]

It has spread it's own words and you are changing the subject. Rome's fruits include the inquisitions, the happenings of the Crusades. The persecution of the Jews - when, btw, did Rome finally recognize Israel as a state? And why is Rome trying to internationalize Jarusalem? OOPS. I understand that Rome thinks Catholicism has replaced Israel as the chosen people; but, that ain't scriptural either. You guys are saturated with the unscriptural. So I'll repeat - making claims in spite of the truth isn't truth. It's a facade.

[Qwinn]

You -gotta- put in your list the bit about how the Catholic Church excommunicates anyone the moment they even -think- about the questioning the Church. That was my all-time favorite. I'm -never- gonna forget that one. Too freakin' funny.

Qwinn

[AMDG&BVMH]

"POINT: The point is you long ago gave away any pretense of independant thinking. You gave your will and intellect to your Bishops and will dance to any tune they play."

The Canon you quoted says assent to DOCTRINE declared upon a matter of FAITH OR MORALS.

Dancing is not required. ;) Anyway, it is not bishops, but only the entire College of Bishops in UNION with the Pope who have authority.

BTW, I have not given up any pretense of independent thinking. The beautiful thing about the Catholic faith is that it is reasonable and logically consistent. The more I read and learn, the more evidence I see of that.

Another thing: If you are not a Catholic, your search for truth takes a different path; i.e. you search for truth in the Scriptures, having discussions, etc. I am a Catholic. The Catholic Church has a credible claim to truth. To throw all that away, I would be starting from scratch, compelled by conscience to read everything ever written about Christianity. Then, in the final analysis, IF I thought my own interpretation was true and the Catholic Church's was not, HOW COULD I EVER BE SURE OF THAT? The splintering of Protestantism proves that it is possible for individuals to come to the wrong conclusion -- because they can't all be right. Truth is whole, not splintered.

POINT: If I could be right and the Pope/Church could be wrong, it is probably the more likely that I would be wrong and the Pope/Church right.

That is IMHO a very logical position to take. ;) As I said, you are on a different path to truth. I HAVE accepted the Church's credible claim to truth, rationally and logically.

[Fury]

Havoc writes:

"...You guys are..."

Who is "you guys"?

[Fury]

You still don't get it. I don't think you screwed up the Dave Hunt quote. I think he said exactly what you said he said. I also think he is probably a pretty bright guy. I don't think he made a mistake. I think he delibrately left the line out of the prayer to make it sound like the Pope was praying to Mary to grant him salvation. I think Hunt's axe is proving that Catholicism is blaspehmous. Unfortunatly, he can't find any real evidence for his bizarre opinions. So he has dishonestly chosen to manufacture that evidence and plant it on the Pope. This is a very scummy thing to do.

Good point. You would think that to make a good argument, that Mr. Hunt would provide the document, or the snippet of the words said to have been spoken by the Pope.

Instead, there seems to be the position posited by Havoc that because Mr. Hunt says this is what the Pope said, then the Pope must have said it.

[Cronos]

Another thing: If you are not a Catholic, your search for truth takes a different path; i.e. you search for truth in the Scriptures, having discussions, etc. I am a Catholic. The Catholic Church has a credible claim to truth. To throw all that away, I would be starting from scratch, compelled by conscience to read everything ever written about Christianity. Then, in the final analysis, IF I thought my own interpretation was true and the Catholic Church's was not, HOW COULD I EVER BE SURE OF THAT?

A very good point. Many mistakenly think tradition should be tossed away, but forget that it is, in reality, answers from debates carried out by Bible studying Christians over the centuries. Yes, you can have doubts, in fact the Church encourages you to learn and get your doubts because that shows that you are striving to learn about your faith. But once you have the doubts you should read what other people who have had the same doubts over the centuries have thought about. I've done that and many times have had my doubts cleared because of insights from my fellow travellers. The same thing happens here on FR.

[Petronski]

Let no one overlook post #1153, in which Havoc links directly to Jack Chick (http://www.chick.com/reading/books/160/160_13.asp) as an authority on the Catholic Church.

Bwa ha ha ha ha!

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

It has helped clarify why many are not Catholic and could never turn to Catholicism since it is not in agreement with the Bible.

It is in total agreement with the Bible, maybe not the King James version, but the Catolic bible, which by the way differs little from King James (the gospels at least) but is a little easier to read. The Bible does not have enough detail for a movie so that was filled in from extra bibical historical and spiritial documents, plus a few items just made up for effect.

[presidio9]

If it's possible, I think "ET" may actually be even crazier than Havoc. IS it possible?