Gibson's passion film 'too Catholic'

Belfast Telegraph ^ | 19 March 2004 | Alf McCreary

[presidio9]

THE controversial Mel Gibson film 'The Passion of the Christ' has been dismissed by the Evangelical Protestant Society as a 'Catholic' interpretation of events which "does not present the Gospel".

Wallace Thompson, secretary of the Evangelical Protestant Society, said the film displayed "an un-Biblical fixation on Mary, the mother of Jesus. None of this should surprise us, for both Mel Gibson and Jim Caviezel, who plays the part of Christ, are enthusiastic devotees of the traditional teachings of the Church of Rome."

He further claims that Mel Gibson "belongs to an ultra-conservative Catholic group which does not recognise the reforms of Vatican II, and celebrates Mass in Latin".

Mr Thompson says that "this malign influence of Rome ought to cause all evangelical Protestants to reject The Passion of the Christ" and refuse to be swayed by the subtleties of the alleged arguments in favour of it.

Sadly, however, it will be welcomed and praised by many who ought to know better."

Mr Thompson also says that the film is "extremely violent", and that "anyone who watches it will be shaken and possibly terrified by its graphic and bloody scenes."

[Havoc]

This was meant to go to you, not petronski.

[Havoc]

Ignore it, was intended for someone else.

[broadsword]

So when you get your pride out of your behind, and work up the integrity...

Supra 10:6-66 - And sayeth the Prophet REGGIE, "What be charity or humility to the Lord on High, for be it the province of Havoc (may His name be praised!) to crush all men beneath His mighty feet and hear not the questions of those who seek His mighty wordiness." Havoc the merciful is the one who rains down fire from nirvanah upon the squirming creatures that dare not raise their puny countenances toward His divine light. (Let all heads press down to the dirt in awe of His knowledge.) Havoc-hu akhbar!

[broadsword]

I'm crushed. I need to redouble my efforts studying the Book of Havoc and hope to partake of His limitless benificence.

That's more like it! your squirminess is accepted. Now, for your subservience, you are to recite five Hail REGGIES and deliver seven inane misinterpretations of scripture, before a laughing crowd of non-believers, crying and condeming them all the while.

[Havoc]

I'm not the one trying to retranslate the passage, Dave.
I didn't note that the word has a secondary meaning - you guys did. I'm not the one arguying to change the translation. You guys are. It is YOPIOS or need I remind you that is exactly what you charged me with for noting that a Greek conjunctive could be translated other ways while I also noted that I would not presume to do so. Can't have it both ways Dave. You guys are arguing the change, not I. It is your burden to prove it. So you can stop trying to put it off on me and prove your own argument.

[presidio9]

I guess it's the default Catholic position to slander and look last. But I'm told the quotation I gave came from this debate and records the comment exactly as I relayed it. So when you get your pride out of your behind, and work up the integrity, I'll be waiting here for the apology I'm sure I'll never see. In the meantime, I'll get the software and download it myself to confirm for myself. This outta be good. ROFL.

You still don't get it. I don't think you screwed up the Dave Hunt quote. I think he said exactly what you said he said. I also think he is probably a pretty bright guy. I don't think he made a mistake. I think he delibrately left the line out of the prayer to make it sound like the Pope was praying to Mary to grant him salvation. I think Hunt's axe is proving that Catholicism is blaspehmous. Unfortunatly, he can't find any real evidence for his bizarre opinions. So he has dishonestly chosen to manufacture that evidence and plant it on the Pope. This is a very scummy thing to do.

[presidio9]

I have come full circle on Havoc. First I thought he was a troll. Then I thought he was just really stupid. Now I think that he is a sleazy troll. He just wants to say nasty things about Catholicism as many times as he can. The same fact has been brought up to him dozens of times on this thread. I no longer think he is too stupid to get the point. I think he is delibrately ignoring it.

[Petronski]

If you would not presume to question the translation of that or any word in the bible, why did you bother to learn the Greek to begin with? If the translation itself is sacrosanct, why bother to consider the original language? And if the original Greek word (having two meanings) was translated into an English word (having multiple meanings), how do you presume to command that only ONE sense of that English word can be the correct one?


1. a. The faculty of sight; eyesight: poor vision.
1. b. Something that is or has been seen.
2. Unusual competence in discernment or perception; intelligent foresight: a leader of vision.
3. The manner in which one sees or conceives of something.
4. A mental image produced by the imagination.
5. The mystical experience of seeing as if with the eyes the supernatural or a supernatural being.
6. A person or thing of extraordinary beauty.


In other words, you interpret 'vision' to have only the meaning in item 5, and NO OTHER meaning (especially the more logical assumption at 1.b., also the most common Greek usage).


Where do you get the authority to do that? From where do you get the gall to command this?

[presidio9]

Actually, he kind of reminds me of John Kerry saying he knows the Bushies are going to hammer him with attack ads (like when they have nerve to point out that he was for the War in Iraq and is now against it) but he promises to rise above that tawdry behavior. What a martyr!

[Havoc]

You still don't get it. I don't think you screwed up the Dave Hunt quote.

Ah, so then what was the "thus saith havoc" stuff then. Did I just imagine being beat up endlessly and accused of making it up just to slander you guys and all that. No, I didn't. And you guys don't display an ounce of integrity now. Instead you act like nothing happened and turn your slanders to Hunt. I'm listening to the passage now. And from my perspective it's as likely he lost his place because he was commenting as he reads it. And I agree, what you're doing is a scummy thing to do.. impugning someone's integrity without bothering to give it a hearing. Oh, don't worry, I'm used to it. I don't need your apology, you've displayed quite well what I've been trying to get across in this regard better than I could have. It isn't about the truth - it's about silencing the opposition by destroying them - however it must be done. Need a hammer and nails? Trees are a dime a dozen.

[Petronski]

Need a hammer and nails? Trees are a dime a dozen.

Your messiah complex is spinning out of control.

[broadsword]

For the last time; YOU ARE NOT JESUS! And those violins? Ooooooh, my ears! Tone them and the self-rightiousness down a bit. I'm drowing in tears, and might short out my keyboard.

[Havoc]

Vision in the greek listed as posted has two meanings. I cut and pasted the meanings listed right out of the dictionary. You're doing it again. I didn't pick the word used. Scholars far more knowledgeable in Greek than you and I combined did so. You are the ones arguing for a different meaning. YOPIOS. You demean me for doing what you yourselves are actually doing, then you have the gaul to turn around and ask why I didn't do what you're doing. Is this some sort of JOKE!

Now, you want to play word games with the english meanings. Are we supposed to be impressed with YOPIOS? That is what you guys called it and condemned me for when you thought you could accuse me of it. You are the one doing the reinterpretation here. You tell me where you have any authority to do it. From where do you get the gall to command this? Hmm? Turn it around on yourself, you're the one trying to change it. Condemn and cross examine yourself. Right. A stunning record in backhanded doublestandards you've all presented yourselves tonight. When you have no defense for your position, attack the person pointing it out. Just as I said earlier. You guys have no shame and can't even see it. And you call us hateful and bigoted for pointing out your errors. If that's hateful and bigoted, what is it when you don't care about what's being said and just attack no matter the position taken? Physician, heal thyself!

[Havoc]

I have no messiah complex, I was offering so he could nail up ole Dave Hunt there. He's had his laughs with me, I just wanted to make sure his fun reaches it's richest limits. Another round of assumptions?

[Petronski]

You need to get over the idea that the English word 'vision' has only one meaning...only the one meaning you need to make your point.

And again, anyone who suggests that your definition of vision is not the appropriate one is 'reinterpreting.' And finally, your definition of 'errors' is 'instances of disagreement with Havoc the Great.'


How you can carry yourself so imperiously and then chafe at being made a laughingstock is beyond me.