Oh My God! Mel Gibson Wants to do the Story of Maccabees!

Sean Hannity | 3/16/04 | self

[ChinaGotTheGoodsOnClinton]

On Hannity, he was talking to Mel Gibson about other stories in the bible.

When Sean asked him what one he'd like to do, he said the book of Maccabees!

This is of course the book which, from the Catholic viewpoint, Luther removed from the bible due to praying for the dead, but it also covers the exciting period after the Jewish return from Babylon when the Greek general Anticus Epiphanies took over the rule of Israel.

This really is block buster material and opens up the whole debate of the Catholic bible vs. the Protestant one.

What is your freeper reaction?

[rwfromkansas]

I would go see it to learn some stuff I don't read in the real Bible. It would be interesting, and is historically accurate, just not inspired.

[editor-surveyor]

It's impossible for me to believe that Gibson, or any other preterist/amillenialist could possibly have sufficient knowledge of the Bible to handle this subject properly.

This promises to be a fiasco.

[madison10]

Would be foolish for Abe Foxman to come out against it LOL...as it is about Jewish heroes & Hanukkah. If done right it would be fantastic.

[Servant of the 9]

Wrong again. What language did the Maccabeans speak about 150 BC?

Greek.
There is the original of a letter from Judah Maccabee to one of his lieutenants in the dead sea scrolls. It is written in Greek. In it Maccabee apologizes for writing in Greek, but states he doesn't have time to figure out how to translate it into Hebrew. It is plain from the context that Greek was his primary language.

From the time of Alexander the Great, Greek was the primary language of the region and Aramaic the language of the lowest classes. Hebrew was used for religious education only, much as we use Latin today. That didn't change till the coming of Islam.

So9

[Dataman]

WELL SAID!

Maccabees is history, not theology. It is, without a doubt, the most accurate and thorough account of the happenings of the period. The Maccabees serve as an example to all the world of how a few faithful can prevail in spite of overwhelming numbers and might. The Hellenists were the liberal democrats of the day, forcing their PC views on everyone in a systematic way, killing and torturing those who refused. It might be where our culture war is going.

[1stFreedom]

>>I & II Maccabees are in the apocrypha.

No, they are in the Canon of Scripture.

In PROTESTANT bibles they have been moved to the "apocrypha".

One reason they were controversial is because the though was they weren't written in hebrew but Greek -- and the Dead sea scrolls disproved that one.

[Dataman]

From the time of Alexander the Great, Greek was the primary language of the region and Aramaic the language of the lowest classes.

Nope. If everyone spoke Greek, why was AE IV killing those who refused to be Hellenized? Why was he burning all copies of the Hebrew scriptures? Why was he forcing Jews to renounce their heritage and religion? If you say the lowest classes spoke Aramaic, are you saying that the Jews were the lowest classes?

[ultima ratio]

If you look at the story that attracts this Traditionalist Catholic, you will see that the Book of Maccabees reflects Gibson's own position. It tells the story of traditional Jews opposing the imposition of a new religious perspective by the king. One family holds out against such blasphemous innovation--and is ultimately victorious.

[editor-surveyor]

" The last thing we need on the heels of "The Passion" is something which will widen the split between Christians."

There is no split between members of the body of Christ, nor can there be. The split is as always, between Christians and unbelievers professing to be Christians, and this is the split that Christ himself promised to bring about in Matthiew ch 10.

[1stFreedom]

>>The Apocrypha including the book of Maccabees was cannonized and then un-cannonized by the early "Church Fathers".

This has to be one of the most inaccurate statements I've read on FR.

The entire canon was not known till like 362. Nobody had the complete set till 362 or so.

There was no "apocrypha" -- that's the protestant version of things.

[Dataman]

No, they are in the Canon of Scripture.

Even Catholics refer to them as "deuterocanonical," the word chosen to replace "apocryphal."

[george wythe]

The inclusion of James was debated due to this very objection, but it was agreed that the books were coherent when viewed with a proper understanding.

The majority of Christians believe the same about the Maccabees.

We have to agree to disagree. The minority Protestant viewpoint will never prevail among the Catholic and Orthodox branches of Christianity.

[viaveritasvita]

>>>Mel Gibson Wants to do the Story of The Council of Trent'!<<<

ROFLOL!!!

Semper Fi

<><

[madison10]

Christians: Protestant & Catholic, It isn't OUR story. It is about Jewish heroes & is their history. How arrogant of us to decide its film worthiness on whether or not it is in our canons.

[Servant of the 9]

If you say the lowest classes spoke Aramaic, are you saying that the Jews were the lowest classes?

The Rural and low class urban jews and the most devout were surely the lowest social classes in that society.

So9

[1stFreedom]

>>1) The Jewish faith recognizes the same 39 books comprising the Protestant Old Testament as being Scriptural; it does not recognize the books of the Apocrypha as being Scritural.

Well, you have to understand why they were rejected. Primarily because they didn't think they were in Hebrew but Greek. Turns out, they were in Hebrew (see dead sea scrolls). Even the jews got this one wrong!

>>2) Christ never quoted any of the books of the Apocrypha (and, therefore, in the Protestant view, must not have considered them Scriptural).

Christ quoted from the book of Enoch, of which only the Orthodox include in their canon. Does this make Enoch Scripture? Nope! This is not a test of valid scripture.

>>3) Luther broke with the Church in 1521; the content of the Catholic Bible wasn't finalized until the Council of Trent in 1546.

That's not true. For approximate 1300 years the canon was defined. It wasn't formally since formal dogmatic definitons usually come after heretical charges, but it was definetly defined.

>>The Lutheran Church doesn't consider the books of Maccabbees to be inaccurate history, we just don't believe them to be inspired Scripture.

Luther wanted to remove the last four books of the New Testament, Hebrews, James, Jude, and Revelations. He didn't consider them to be inspired.

He actually removed them from his translation and put them into an unnumbered appendix. This treatment of these books illustrates how he considered them unequal to other New Testament writings.

[Prolifeconservative]

"Praying for the dead is not really justified either. It's really pointless since where someone is to go has already been determined:"

To make that statement is deny God's His Omnipotence. There is no such thing as time with God. A prayer today can be applied anywhere in God's time. In essence, a prayer today can be applied to yesterday, today, and tomorrow and to the dead as if they were living.

Don't make the mistake of applying our limited intellect to the infinite spiritual nature of God Almighty!

[ChicagoHebrew]

This Jew would see that movie 10 times. And buy the DVD. A movie about the Maccabees would rock (even though from the 2nd generation onward they turned into thugs).

Even better would be a movie about the Bar Kochba Rebellion-- better story, but it would probably appeal only to Jews. Still, I could so see Rabbi Akiva's death scene:

Roman: Why are you laughing Jew? Don't you know you are being tortured to death?

Akiva: My entire life I have wondered if I had to strength to fulfill the command, "You should love the Lord your G-d with all your heart, and with all your soul-- even to the point of death." Now that I know I do, why should I not be happy?

It would be an even better end than the "FREEEDOOOOM!!!!" cry in Braveheart.

[george wythe]

See post #69 for an Orthodox Bishop's answer to your question.

[1stFreedom]

The EO do consider them inspired.