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Ohio's Critical Analysis of Evolution
Critical Evaluation of Evolution ^ | March 2004 | Ohio State Board of Education

Posted on 03/13/2004 11:53:26 AM PST by js1138

Critical Analysis of Evolution – Grade 10 

 

Life Sciences

 

Benchmark H

Describe a foundation of biological evolution as the change in gene frequency of a population over time. Explain the historical and current scientific developments, mechanisms and processes of biological evolution. Describe how scientists continue to investigate and critically analyze aspects of evolutionary theory. (The intent of this benchmark does not mandate the teaching or testing of intelligent design.)

 

Indicator 23

Describe how scientists continue to investigate and critically analyze aspects of evolutionary theory. (The intent of this indicator does not mandate the teaching or testing of intelligent design.)

 

Scientific Ways of Knowing

 

Benchmark A

Explain that scientific knowledge must be based on evidence, be predictive, logical, subject to modification and limited to the natural world.

 

Indicator 2

Describe that scientists may disagree about explanations of phenomena, about interpretation of data or about the value of rival theories, but they do agree that questioning, response to criticism and open communication are integral to the process of science.

 

Indicator 3

Recognize that science is a systematic method of continuing investigation, based on observation, hypothesis testing, measurement, experimentation, and theory building, which leads to more adequate explanations of natural phenomena.

 

Lesson Summary:

 

This lesson allows students to critically analyze five different aspects of evolutionary theory. As new scientific data emerge, scientists’ understandings of the natural world may become enhanced, modified or even changed all together. Using library and Internet sources, groups of students will conduct background research for one of the aspects of evolution in preparation for a critical analysis discussion. Students also will listen to, and take notes on, their classmates' critical analyses of evolution theory.

 

Estimated Duration: Four to six hours

 

Commentary:

 

This lesson should be used midway or toward the end of a unit on evolution. This will allow students to “carry over” their knowledge of basic evolutionary concepts into this lesson. The strength of this lesson lies in having students research topics that interest them about evolutionary biology. Students are encouraged to consider the research and discuss their findings with fellow students.

 

Pre-Assessment:

 

·        The following items can be used to stimulate dialogue with the students.

·        Instruct students to copy the following items from the chalkboard in their science lab notebook.

1.      Describe anomalies and explain why they exist.

2.      Are there any benefits to exploring scientific anomalies?

3.      How do scientists make and test predictions?

4.      How do scientists critically analyze conflicting data?

5.      Define the following terms in your own words:

§         Theory

§         Critical analysis

§         Natural selection

§         Biological evolution

§         Macroevolution

§         Microevolution

·        Direct students to respond to the questions in their science notebook in as much detail as possible leaving space to record information from the ensuing dialogue to add to their notes.

 

Scoring Guidelines:

 

Collect pre-assessments and evaluate for indication of prior knowledge and/or misconception. Sample definitions for question five in the pre-assessment include, but are not limited to, the following:

·        Theory
A supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something, especially one based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained.

·        Critical analysis
The separation of an intellectual idea into its constituent parts for the purpose of a careful, exact evaluation and judgment about those parts and their interrelationships in making up a whole. (This definition combines the definition for critical and analysis.)

·        Natural selection
The principle that in a given environment, individuals having characteristics that aid survival will produce more offspring, and the proportion of individuals having such characteristics will increase with each succeeding generation.

·        Biological evolution
Changes in the genetic composition of a population through successive generations.

·        Macroevolution
Large-scale evolution occurring over geologic time that results in the formation of new taxonomic groups.

·        Microevolution
Evolution resulting from a succession of relatively small genetic variations that often cause the formation of new subspecies.

 

Post-Assessment:

 

 

Instructional Procedures:

Instructional Tip:

Scientists make a distinction between two areas of evolutionary theory. First, scientists consider mutation, natural selection, genetic drift and gene flow (immigration and emigration) as the processes that generate evolutionary changes in organisms and populations. Second, the theory of universal common descent describes the historical pattern of biological change. This theory maintains that all living forms have descended from earlier living forms and ultimately from a single common ancestor. Darwin envisioned the theory of universal common descent as a necessary result of evolutionary changes in organisms and populations, and represented it in his branching tree of life. Students will investigate and analyze these two areas of evolutionary theory in this lesson.

 

In addition to the distinctions between different areas of evolutionary theory, scientists also find it helpful to distinguish amounts of biological change or evolution. Microevolution refers to evolution resulting from a succession of relatively small genetic variations that often cause the formation of new subspecies. Macroevolution refers to large-scale evolution occurring over geologic time that results in the formation of new taxonomic groups. These terms are helpful distinctions in the course of analyzing evolutionary theory. These terms have appeared in OhioLink research databases, numerous Internet sites, and biology and evolution textbooks. Though “micro” and “macro” are prefixes, it is quite clear that the scientific community recognizes and acknowledges the distinction between the words. To help ensure academic clarity, this lesson distinguishes between microevolution and macroevolution. Teachers may need to provide support to students to help them understand this distinction throughout the lesson.

 

Student Engagement

 

  1. Write the following statement on the chalkboard or overhead:
    Anomalies are observations in science that depart from the general consensus of the time. Many anomalies occur in science. Scientists create hypotheses to explain these anomalies and then carry out experiments to try to disprove their hypotheses. Disproven hypotheses are rejected and those that are not disproven are subjected to further testing.
  2. Ask students to think through the following science topics and discuss where anomalies led to the collection of data that further explained the phenomena and contributed to changing scientific understandings.

·        Spontaneous generation versus biogenesis
Several pieces of data could be used. One example is Francesco Redi’s observation that flies must contact meat in order for maggots to appear on the meat.

·        Geocentric versus Heliocentric
Several pieces of data could be used. One example is the observed phases of Venus.

  1. Ask students to cite additional areas where critical analysis is needed by the scientific community.

 

Teacher Presentation

  1. Present supporting and challenging information for five aspects of evolution found in Attachment A. This will give students background information concerning both supporting and challenging evidence. Students can use this information to focus their research.

 

Instructional Tip:

Alternative strategies for beginning this lesson could be to engage students in a Socratic discussion or a mini-lecture. See the Web site for student research at the Los Alamos National Laboratory for guidelines on the Socratic method. The Web address is listed in the Technology Connections section.

 

Student Research

  1. Form groups consisting of two to four students. Assign each group a number to help monitor their activities and assignments during the lesson.
  2. Allow the groups to pick (or assign) one of the five aspects of evolutionary theory. Assign two groups to research each aspect. The aspects are:

Aspect 1: Homology (anatomical and molecular)

Aspect 2: Fossil Record

Aspect 3: Anti-Biotic Resistance

Aspect 4: Peppered Moths

Aspect 5: Endosymbiosis

 

  1. Distribute Attachment B, Investigative Worksheet, to help guide research. Allow time for the two groups assigned the same aspect to research their topic by answering questions on the Investigative Worksheet. Have groups use the worksheet as a guide to help them research supporting and challenging data on their particular aspect of evolution. The worksheet will help students organize their ideas and facilitate their critical analysis.

 

Instructional Tip:

Attachment B, Investigative Worksheet, has questions that can be applied to all five aspects. This will help students become familiar with the data, and therefore be able to critically analyze the evidence for either the supporting side or the challenging side. As they complete the worksheet, the group members may all work together on each question, or divide the questions among themselves and then share their findings as a group.

 

  1. After the groups have completed their research, collect the Investigative Worksheets and review them. Return the worksheet to them prior to the next step of the instructional procedures; the critical analysis activity. The Investigative Worksheet is a formative assessment which will enable the teacher to check the student work and if necessary, assist in any way to help ensure student success on his or her critical analysis activity.

Critical Analysis Activity

  1. Allow the students to spend time researching and preparing for the critical analysis activity on both the supporting and challenging information. Prior to the activity, randomly determine which of the two groups will present supporting information and which will present challenging information. You may have groups draw cards to help objectively determine if they will research the supporting or challenging information.

 

Instructional Tip:

Encourage all students to participate in the critical analysis activity because the experience will be a learning opportunity. Be prepared, however, to distribute alternate assignments to students who do not want to participate.

 

  1. Hand out Attachment C, Critical Analysis Rubric, to help students understand the materials they need to prepare and how they should conduct their presentations.
  2. Ask each group to write out their introduction, outline their presentations and write their conclusions. Have students practice their presentations to be sure that they are concise.
  3. Have two pairs of students address each aspect. Have one group present the data that support an aspect and the other group present the data that challenge the aspect. Flip a coin to decide which group begins the critical analysis activity. Instruct each side to present its research. The teacher will serve as facilitator to assure that the groups remain on task and on time. There are no winners or losers in this critical analysis activity. This is a sharing of the results of their research concerning evolution.
  4. Encourage students to actively participate as they critically analyze their assigned aspect. To ensure that they remain engaged as they watch and listen to the other groups, distribute copies of Attachment D, Critical Analysis Worksheet, and have them take notes. At the conclusion of the lesson, this worksheet will be turned in for a grade.  
  5. Use Attachment C, Critical Analysis Rubric, to evaluate each group's presentation.
  6. Proceed to the post-assessment to evaluate students' understanding.

 

Differentiated Instructional Support:

Instruction is differentiated according to learner needs, to help all learners either meet the intent of the specified indicator(s) or, if the indicator is already met, to advance beyond the specified indicator(s).

 

 

Extension:

Have students consider other aspects of evolutionary biology that are critically analyzed by scientists. Possible topics include:

 

 

 

Interdisciplinary Connections:

Social Studies Skills and Methods Standard

 

 

Benchmark A

Evaluate the reliability and credibility of sources.

Indicator 1

Determine the credibility of sources by considering the following:

a.       The qualifications and reputation of the writer;

b.      Agreement with other credible sources;

c.       Recognition of stereotypes;

d.      Accuracy and consistency of sources;

e.       The circumstances in which the author prepared the source.

 

 

 

English Language Arts Research Standard

 

 

Benchmark B

Evaluate the usefulness and credibility of data and sources.

Indicator 3

Determine the accuracy of sources and the credibility of the author by analyzing the sources’ validity (e.g., authority, accuracy, objectivity, publication date and coverage, etc.).

Benchmark C

Organize information from various resources and select appropriate sources to support central ideas, concepts and themes.

Indicator 2

Identify appropriate sources and gather relevant information from multiple sources (e.g., school library catalogs, online databases, electronic resources and Internet-based resources).

Indicator 4

Evaluate and systematically organize important information, and select appropriate sources to support central ideas, concepts and themes.

 

 

Materials and Resources:

The inclusion of a specific resource in any lesson formulated by the Ohio Department of Education should not be interpreted as an endorsement of that particular resource, or any of its contents, by the Ohio Department of Education. The Ohio Department of Education does not endorse any particular resource. The Web addresses listed are for a given site’s main page, therefore, it may be necessary to search within that site to find the specific information required for a given lesson. Please note that information published on the Internet changes over time, therefore the links provided may no longer contain the specific information related to a given lesson. Teachers are advised to preview all sites before using them with students.

 

For the teacher: attachments, resource materials such as the Internet, World Wide Web, library resources

For the student: attachments, resource materials such as the Internet, World Wide Web, library resources

 

Vocabulary:

 

 

Technology Connections:

 

Research Connections:

Marzano, R. et al. Classroom Instruction that Works: Research-Based Strategies for Increasing Student Achievement. Alexandria: Associat ion for Supervision and Curriculum Development, 2001.

 

 

General Tips:

 

 

1.      Ayala, Francisco, "The Mechanisms of Evolution." Scientific American, 239:3 (1978): 56-69.

  1. Brickhouse, Nancy. "Diversity of Students’ Views about Evidence, Theory." Journal of Research in Science Teaching. 37:4 (2000).
  2. Carroll, Robert L. (1997/98). “Limits to Knowledge of the Fossil Record”. Zoology. 100 (1997/98): 221-231.
  3. Carroll, Robert L. “Towards a New Evolutionary Synthesis.” Trends in Ecology and Evolution 15 (2000): 27-32.
  4. Cherfas, J. "Exploring the Myth of the Melanic Moth." New Scientist. (1986): 25.
  5. Chinn, Clark. "An Empirical Test of a Taxonomy of Responses to Anomalous Data in Science." Journal of Research in Science Teaching. 35:6 (1998).
  6. Chinn, Clark. "The Role of Anomalous Data in Knowledge Acquisition: A Theoretical Framework and Implications for Science Instruction." Review of Educational Research. 63:1 (1993): 1-49.
  7. Darwin, Charles. On the Origin of Species: A Facsimile of the First Edition. Cambridge: Harvard UP, 1975.
  8. Denton, Michael. Evolution: A Theory in Crisis. Bethesda: Adler and Adler, 1986.
  9. Doolittle, W. Ford “Uprooting the Tree of Life,” Scientific American, 282 (2000): 90-95.
  10. Erwin, Douglas. “Macroevolution is More Than Repeated Rounds of Microevolution,” Evolution & Development 2 (2000): 78-84.
  11. Erwin, Douglas. “Early Introduction of Major Morphological Innovations,” Acta Palaeontologica Polonica 38 (1994): 281-294.
  12. Evans, Margaret E. "The Emergence of Beliefs About the Origins of Species in School-Age Children." Merrill-Palmer Quarterly. 46:2 (2000): 221-253.
  13. Faust, David. The Limits of Scientific Reasoning. Minneapolis: University of Minnesota Press, 1984.
  14. Fitch, W., and E. Margoliash, "Construction of Phylogenetic Trees." Science 155 (1967): 281.
  15. Gilbert, Scott F., et al. “Resynthesizing Evolutionary and Developmental Biology,” Journal of Developmental Biology 173 (1996): 357-372.
  16. Jeffares, D. “Relics from the RNA World.” Journal of Molecular Evolution 46 (1998): 18-36.
  17. Lee, Michael. “Molecular Phylogenies become Functional” Trends in Ecology and Evolution. 14 (1999): 177-178.
  18. Levinton, Jeffrey S. “The Big Bang of Animal Evolution.” Scientific American 267 (1992): 84-91.
  19. Lewin, Roger. "Evolutionary Theory Under Fire." Science. 210 (1980): 883.
  20. Mahoney, Michael. "Publication Prejudices: an Experimental Study of Confirmatory Bias in the Peer Review System." Cognitive Therapy and Research. 1:2 (1977): 161-175.
  21. Margoulis, L., and D. Sagan. "Bacterial Bedfellows." Natural History 96 (1987): 26-33.
  22. Martin W., and M. Muller. "The Hydrogen Hypothesis for the First Eukaryote." Nature 392 (1998): 37-41.
  23. Mikkola, K. "On the Selective Forces Acting in the Industrial Melanism of Biston oligia Moths." Biological Journal of the Linnean Society 21 (1984): 409-421.
  24. Mynatt, Clifford. "Confirmation Bias in a Simulated Research Environment: An Experimental Study of Scientific Inference." Quarterly Journal of ExperimentalPsychology. 29 (1977): 85-95.
  25. National Academy of Science. Teaching About Evolution and the Nature of Science. Washington: National Academy Press, 1998.
  26. National Academy of Science. National Science Education Standards. Washington, National Academy Press, 1996.
  27. Pennisi, E. “Direct descendants from an RNA world.” Science 280 (1998): 673.
  28. Philippe, Herve, and Patrick Forterre. “The Rooting of the Universal Tree of Life is Not Reliable.” Journal of Molecular Evolution 49 (1999): 509-523.
  29. Plous, Scott. The Psychology of Judgment and Decision Making. New York: McGraw Hill, 1993.
  30. Samarapungavan, Ala. "Children’s judgment in theory choice tasks: Scientific rationality in childhood. Cognition. 45 (1992): 1-32.
  31. Shubin, Neil H. and Charles R. Marshall. “Fossils, Genes, and the Origin of Novelty.” Deep Time (2000): 324-340.
  32. Smith, John M., and Eörs Szathmáry. The Major Transitions in Evolution. Oxford: Oxford UP, 1995.
  33. Smith, Mike U. "Counterpoint: Belief, Understanding, and Teaching of Evolution." Journal of Research in Science Teaching. 3:5 (1994): 591-597.
  34. Thagard, Paul. Mind, Society, and the Growth of Knowledge. Philosophy of Science. (1994): 61.
  35. Thomson , Keith S. “Macroevolution: The Morphological Problem,” American Zoologist 32 (1992): 106-112.
  36. Thomson, Keith S. "Marginalia: The Meanings of Evolution.” American Scientist. 70. (1982): 529-531.

 

Attachments:

Attachment A, Five Aspects of Evolution

Attachment B, Investigative Worksheet

 

Attachment A

Five Aspects of Evolution

 

Aspect 1: Homology

Citations in the General Tips Section may provide a starting point for student research. It is suggested that students employ additional resources in their research.

 

Brief Supporting Sample Answer: Different animals have very similar anatomical and genetic structures. This suggests that these animals share a common ancestor from which they inherited the genes to build these anatomical structures. Evolutionary biologists call similarities that are due to common ancestry “homologies.” For example, the genes that produce hemoglobin molecules (an oxygen carrying protein) in chimps and humans are at least 98% identical in sequence. As another example, bats, humans, horses, porpoises and moles all share a forelimb that has the same pattern of bone structure and organization. The hemoglobin molecule and the “pentadactyl limb” provide evidence for common ancestors. Also, the genetic code is universal, suggesting that a common ancestor is the source.

 

Brief Challenging Sample Answer: Some scientists think similarities in anatomical and genetic structure reflect similar functional needs in different animals, not common ancestry. The nucleotide sequence of hemoglobin DNA is very similar between chimps and humans, but this may be because they provide the same function for both animals. Also, if similar anatomical structures really are the result of a shared evolutionary ancestry, then similar anatomical structures should be produced by related genes and patterns of embryological development. However, sometimes, similar anatomical structures in different animals are built from different genes and by different pathways of embryological development. Scientists can use these different anatomical structures and genes to build versions of Darwin family trees that will not match each other. This shows that diverse forms of life may have different ancestry.

 

Aspect 2: Fossil Record

Citations in the General Tips Section may provide a starting point for student research. It is suggested that students employ additional resources in their research. 

 

Brief Supporting Sample Answer: The fossil record shows an increase in the complexity of living forms from simple one-celled organisms, to the first simple plants and animals, to the diverse and complex organisms that live on Earth today. This pattern suggests that later forms evolved from earlier simple forms over long periods of geological time. Macroevolution is the large-scale evolution occurring over geologic time that results in the formation of new taxonomic groups. The slow transformations are reflected in transitional fossils such as Archaeopteryx (a reptile-like bird) and mammal-like reptiles. These transitional fossils bridge the gap from one species to another species and from one branch on the tree of life to another.

 

Brief Challenging Sample Answer: Transitional fossils are rare in the fossil record. A growing number of scientists now question that Archaeopteryx and other transitional fossils really are transitional forms. The fossil record as a whole shows that major evolutionary changes took place suddenly over brief periods of time followed by longer periods of “stasis” during which no significant change in form or transitional organisms appeared (Punctuated Equilibria). The “Cambrian explosion” of animal phyla is the best known, but not the only example, of the sudden appearance of new biological forms in the fossil record.

 

Aspect 3: Antibiotic Resistance

Citations in the General Tips Section may provide a starting point for student research. It is suggested that students employ additional resources in their research.

 

Brief Supporting Sample Answer: The number of strains of antibiotic resistant bacteria, such as of Staphylococcus aureus, have significantly increased in number over time. Antibiotics used by patients to eliminate disease-causing bacterial organisms have facilitated this change. When some bacteria acquire a mutation that allows them to survive in the presence of antibiotics, they begin to survive in greater numbers than those that do not have this mutation-induced resistance. This shows how environmental changes and natural selection can produce significant changes in populations and species over time.

 

Brief Challenging Sample Answer: The increase in the number of antibiotic resistant bacterial strains demonstrates the power of natural selection to produce small but limited changes in populations and species. It does not demonstrate the ability of natural selection to produce new forms of life. Although new strains of Staphylococcus aureus have evolved, the speciation of bacteria (prokaryotes) has not been observed, and neither has the evolution of bacteria into more complex eukaryotes. Thus, the phenomenon of antibiotic resistance demonstrates microevolution.

 

Aspect 4: Peppered Moths (Biston betularia)

Citations in the General Tips Section may provide a starting point for student research. It is suggested that students employ additional resources in their research.

 

Brief Supporting Sample Answer: During the industrial revolution in England, more soot was released into the air. As a result, the tree trunks in the woodlands grew darker in color. This environmental change also produced a change in the population of English peppered moths (scientifically known as Biston betularia). Studies during the 1950s have suggested a reason for this change. It was observed that light-colored moths resting on dark-colored tree trunks were readily eaten by birds. They had become more visible by their predators compared to their dark-colored counterparts. This different exposure to predation explained why the light-colored moths died with greater frequency when pollution darkened the forest. It also explained why light-colored moths later made a “comeback” when air quality improved in England. This whole situation demonstrates how the process of natural selection can change the features of a population over time.

 

Brief Challenging Sample Answer: English peppered moths show that environmental changes can produce microevolutionary changes within a population. They do not show that natural selection can produce major new features or forms of life, or a new species for that matter—i.e., macroevolutionary changes. From the beginning of the industrial revolution, English peppered moths came in both light and dark varieties. After the pollution decreased, dark and light varieties still existed. All that changed during this time was the relative proportion of the two traits within the population. No new features and no new species emerged. In addition, recent scientific articles have questioned the factual basis of the study performed during the 1950s. Scientists have learned that peppered moths do not actually rest on tree trunks. This has raised questions about whether color changes in the moth population were actually caused by differences in exposure to predatory birds.

 

Aspect 5: Endosymbiosis (formation of cellular organelles)

Citations in the General Tips Section may provide a starting point for student research. It is suggested that students employ additional resources in their research.

 

Brief Supporting Sample Answer: Complex eukaryotic cells contain organelles such as chloroplasts and mitochondria. These organelles have their own DNA. This suggests that bacterial cells may have become established in cells that were ancestral to eukaryotes. These smaller cells existed for a time in a symbiotic relationship within the larger cell. Later, the smaller cell evolved into separate organelles within the eukaryotic ancestors. The separate organelles, chloroplast and mitochondria, within modern eukaryotes stand as evidence of this evolutionary change.

 

Brief Challenging Sample Answer: Laboratory tests have not yet demonstrated that small bacteria (prokaryotic cells) can change into separate organelles, such as mitochondria and chloroplasts within larger bacterial cells. When smaller bacterial cells (prokaryotes) are absorbed by larger bacterial cells, they are usually destroyed by digestion. Although some bacterial cells (prokaryotes) can occasionally live in eukaryotes, scientists have not observed these cells changing into organelles such as mitochondria or chloroplasts.

 

 

Attachment B

Investigative Worksheet

 

This activity will help you to prepare for the critical analysis activity. Complete the following table by addressing the following points when you record supporting and challenging data for one aspect of evolution. Record your responses on the appropriate space on the chart.

 

 


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Editorial; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy; Politics/Elections; US: Ohio
KEYWORDS: crevolist; evolution; intelligentdesign; ohio; scienceeducation
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To: Elsie
More creo amnesia, Elsie? What if I made you recap every point you wanted remembered, on every thread?

Toward sentence one, here! A sampling of transitionals. Not rare. Predicted by evolution, scoffed at by creationism. Found.

Toward sentence two, here! Reptilian features of Archaeopteryx. As to more and more scientists deciding that Archy is not a transitional, who the hell are they? I think it's the same five guys each year. (Wells, Meyer, Dembski, Berlinski, and Johnson.)

HMmmm.. perhaps.... Can something bee TRUE and NOT be 'literally' true?

The question is whether something can be true and not what some ingenious idiot cracks it up to be.

141 posted on 03/13/2004 8:20:35 PM PST by VadeRetro
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To: PatrickHenry
. . . anti-rational movements like creationism and ID.

I'm not sure how much of a "movement" is taking place, but I am dead sure it should not be described as "anti-rational."

With all of the structures and technology humans have been able to build, not a single one throughout history, let alone all of them combined, have been able to design and construct a living, human being, let alone a living organism. Imagine them trying to do so using neither design nor intelligence.

If anything is "anti-rational," it is the notion that a living organism could come about without the presence of either intelligence or design. That is "anti-rational" to the point of absurdity.

I am surprised at the number of people who think a serious diaglogue is warranted to defend the mere probability of intelligent design, but I will take it as further confirmation of the biblical teaching that man would rather be purely "anti-rational" than face the prospect of accountability to someone other than himself.

142 posted on 03/13/2004 8:31:49 PM PST by Fester Chugabrew
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To: js1138
Oh my God...It reads just like a Southern Baptist sermon! Theocracy has arrived in the United States! Run in circles, throw up your hands like Nathan Lane! Mass hysteria!
143 posted on 03/13/2004 8:37:15 PM PST by Mr. Silverback (Pre-empt the third murder attempt-- Pray for Terry Schiavo!)
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To: js1138
Here is the continuing controversy on Variable Speed of Light from April 2003. But I have seen something this year on a major news site.

Variable Speed of Light

Now admittedly those challenging the constant are few and far between. But I tend to the think the hallmark of good science is to keep an open mind. Especially when we have such a limited knowledge of creation and what knowledge we do have is so recently gained.

144 posted on 03/13/2004 8:39:56 PM PST by DannyTN
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To: js1138
What specifically do you object to?

What am I expected to enjoy?

145 posted on 03/13/2004 8:46:55 PM PST by TopQuark
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To: PatrickHenry
"Socrates was sentenced to death for "impiety." And Galileo was convicted of heresy and locked up for the last seven years of his life. "

Yet Galileo was very religious. In his works he wrote to the effect that the scriptures are true, only the interpretation made by some (Roman Catholic hierarchy) was faulty. And this was in the 1600's, a time when much of the Roman Catholic heirarchy was corrupt.

Galileo contended that proper interpretation of Scripture would agree with observed fact. The "Book of Nature," written in the language of mathematics would agree with the "Book of Scripture," written in the everyday language of the people. Besides, the "Bible teaches men how to go to heaven, not how the heavens go," and it would be "a terrible detriment for the souls if people found themselves convinced by proof of something that it was made then a sin to believe."

Galileo and Christianity

Galileo even better quotes

146 posted on 03/13/2004 8:55:14 PM PST by DannyTN
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To: DannyTN
I followed your link to your ICR scientists, and indeed some of them appear to to be credentialed, working scientists. I think you might be surprised, however, by some of the things they've written.

If you wish to make the point that believers can be competent scientists, I can accept that. But I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for any of these people to demonstrate that the traditional working assumptions of science are inadequate. These people are scientists to the extent that they apply scientific methods and assumptions.

The fundamental error of ID is not the assumption that God designed the universe. That is irrelevant to the current debate. The fundamental error of ID is the more mundane error of incorrectly describing the behavior of the universe, once brought into existence.

ID asserts that certain processes and phenomena are impossible, specifically, that certain biological objects cannot have come into existence through the regular processes of chemistry. Please note that we are not discussing who made the dirt, or who created the laws of nature. We are discussing how the world works now that it exists.

The problem here is one of basic procedure. When science is confronted with a mystery of how something came to be, it attacks the problem in manageable pieces, sometimes successfully and sometimes not. Some problems require decades or even centuries. But there is an underlying assumption that eventually the pieces can be reassembled into a congruent whole.

ID, as a matter of principle, asserts that certain processes cannot be disassembled. Like the old maps with the warning, "Here be dragons," ID says that some physical processes simply can't happen. It is not a matter of whether ID is right or wrong about these assertions. It is a matter of implying that one should give up without a fight. It is like saying that human flight cannot happen because there is no source of energy is compact enough and light enough to overcome gravity. True in 1900, but not the kind of attitude that leads to discovery and invention.
147 posted on 03/13/2004 8:57:07 PM PST by js1138
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To: DannyTN
If you read the article on the speed of light you will find there is no controversy. First, there is no evidence supporting any variation, and second, there is no reluctance to keep testing hypotheses.
148 posted on 03/13/2004 9:05:28 PM PST by js1138
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To: js1138
The problem here is one of basic procedure. When science is confronted with a mystery of how something came to be, it attacks the problem in manageable pieces, sometimes successfully and sometimes not. Some problems require decades or even centuries. But there is an underlying assumption that eventually the pieces can be reassembled into a congruent whole.

Indeed, that's the problem of ID. Instead of reducing a complex problem to simpler principles as it is common in science, they go the other way: they try to explain a complex problem by postulating an even more complex one (omnipotent designer, who is as complex as it gets).
In other words they increase the degrees of freedom instead of decreasing them.

149 posted on 03/13/2004 9:38:10 PM PST by BMCDA
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To: Elsie
What a beautiful thought I am thinking concerning the great speckled bird
Remember her name is recorded on the pages of God's holy word
Desiring to lower her standards they watch every move that she makes
But they long to find fault with her teaching but really they find no mistakes

I am glad I have learned of her meekness I am proud that my name is on her book
For I want to be one never fearing the face of my Saviour's true look
When he comes descending from heaven on the cloud as he write in his word
I'll be joyfully carried to meet him on the wings of the great speckled bird

Words and music by (Reverend) Guy Smith

Tune used by Bill Anderson with the words: "I didn't know God made Honkey Tonkey women..."

However, the Monastery at Jémez Springs isn't the "Servants of the Parakeet."
150 posted on 03/13/2004 9:40:07 PM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: Fester Chugabrew; PatrickHenry
PH: . . . I don't like the emphasis on the micro-macro issue, which is a non-issue.

FC: How so? It seems to me a good many folks jump from one to the other while interpreting and exlaining the evidence.

It sure looks like a continuum. You've got dogs and cats (can't breed), horses and donkeys (can, but infertile offspring), lions and tigers (zoo keepers can force them to, don't know if the offspring are fertile), ring species (A breeds w/ B, B w/ C, C w/ D, but A and D can't), domestic dogs (chihuahuas and Great Danes physically can't, imagine the pups would be fertile if we did it artificially)

Where's micro? where's macro?

I'm reminded of Archimedes' Axiom: given any quantity e, no matter how small (but bigger than zero), and given another quantity M, no matter how large (but finite), there is a whole number K such that K times e is bigger than M. (Seems obvious, but there are number systems in which it is false, the so-called non-Archimedean fields)

151 posted on 03/13/2004 10:48:09 PM PST by Virginia-American
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To: Fester Chugabrew
But I would think critical analysis is part and parcel of what happens among those who are being educated. Is that not what schools want to encourage at this grade level?

There are a h*ll of a lot of totally undisputed *facts* that have to be learned. Biochemistry and evolution provide the most important means of organizing the immense body of biological data.

Once one has the knowledge, then one is in a position to understand and appreciate the real and pseudo challenges to standard theory.

It really helps if you know a lot about the Solar System and astronomy in general before you're exposed to astrology or Ted Holden. Ditto biology and the the "Icons" foolishness or Hovind or whatever.

152 posted on 03/13/2004 11:03:20 PM PST by Virginia-American
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To: Fester Chugabrew; RadioAstronomer
Science is looking for intelligent life in outer space. Shall we accord them the same courtesy of mocking their pursuit? Shall we disallow any and all discussion of their observations and expression from the classroom?

Until they find something (someone?), yes. HS isn't really the place for cutting-edge research (maybe a science fair project, but not routine instruction)

Any thoughts, RA?

153 posted on 03/13/2004 11:11:22 PM PST by Virginia-American
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To: DannyTN
flat earth view. But this was a view promoted by evolutionists in the late 1800's and early 1900's as a way of discrediting the church.

Are you sure? I thought it was Protestants casting disrepute on Rome.

154 posted on 03/13/2004 11:24:54 PM PST by Virginia-American
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To: DannyTN; Doctor Stochastic
Absolutely there is controversy over common descent. Again this thread is proof.

Who's challenged it? How do they explain what Dr. S. called "Kilroy DNA"? Is there a reason cows and whales share some of the same genetics, but horses don't? Wouldn't an ID-ist predict that whales would share fish DNA, and cows horse DNA? If not, why not?

155 posted on 03/13/2004 11:28:50 PM PST by Virginia-American
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To: DannyTN
Without that "junk" DNA, we might be very different creatures if we were viable at all.

Maybe, maybe not. Some of it is definitely the remains of viruses, and some is definitely no-longer-in-use genes (human vitamin C and ofactory detectors, among others like hens' teeth and horses' toes).

Perhaps the ID-ists could start earning their keep and do some experiments.

156 posted on 03/13/2004 11:32:51 PM PST by Virginia-American
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To: Virginia-American
It really helps if you know a lot about the Solar System and astronomy in general before you're exposed to astrology or Ted Holden. Ditto biology and the the "Icons" foolishness or Hovind or whatever.

That's good. Very good.

157 posted on 03/14/2004 3:32:50 AM PST by PatrickHenry (A compassionate evolutionist.)
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To: Fester Chugabrew
If anything is "anti-rational," it is the notion that a living organism could come about without the presence of either intelligence or design. That is "anti-rational" to the point of absurdity.

Well, no, since then you've got to ponder who designed the designer and so on, ad nauseum. That's about as "anti-rational" as one can get.

158 posted on 03/14/2004 3:43:17 AM PST by Junior (No animals were harmed in the making of this post)
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To: DannyTN
There are scientists who question the assumptions underlying dating methods.

And that, my friend, is why more than one method is used to test a sample. They can't all be wrong and still give concurrent ages for a sample, can they? I mean, one can be a little leary when one uses only one method, but when a second method using a different radioisotope with a different halflife backs up the date given by the first, then one is more likely to be accurate in his estimate for the age of the sample, is one not? And, if a third method using an entirely different radioisotope with a different halflife than the first two also confirms the age of the sample given by those first two, one is approaching certainty in one's estimate, n'est-ce pas?

Radiometric Dating: A Christian Perspective

159 posted on 03/14/2004 3:57:49 AM PST by Junior (No animals were harmed in the making of this post)
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To: Virginia-American
Biochemistry and evolution provide the most important means of organizing the immense body of biological data.

Evolution does not assist in organizing facts and data. It makes unnecessary assumptions once the data has already been organized. I could learn the ins and outs of molecular biology very easily without making the assumption there is no god involved, but I could n't even participate in the gathering and observation of facts were it not for intelligence and design.

160 posted on 03/14/2004 4:34:27 AM PST by Fester Chugabrew
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