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'God particle' may have been seen
BBC News Online ^ | Wednesday, 10 March, 2004 | By Paul Rincon

Posted on 03/11/2004 4:45:23 AM PST by Momaw Nadon

A scientist says one of the most sought after particles in physics - the Higgs boson - may have been found, but the evidence is still relatively weak.

Peter Renton, of the University of Oxford, says the particle may have been detected by researchers at an atom-smashing facility in Switzerland.

The Higgs boson explains why all other particles have mass and is fundamental to a complete understanding of matter.

Dr Renton's assessment of the Higgs hunt is published in Nature magazine.

"There's certainly evidence for something, whether it's the Higgs boson is questionable," Dr Renton, a particle physicist at Oxford, told BBC News Online.

"It's compatible with the Higgs boson certainly, but only a direct observation would show that."

If correct, Dr Renton's assessment would place the elusive particle's mass at about 115 gigaelectronvolts.


Once produced, the Higgs boson would decay very quickly

Unstable particle

This comes from a signal obtained at the large electron positron collider (LEP) in Geneva, Switzerland, which has now been dismantled to make way for its replacement - the large hadron collider (LHC).

However, there is a 9% probability that the signal could be background "noise".

Before the LEP accelerator was decommissioned, physicists used it to send particles called electrons and positrons careering in opposite directions around its circular pipe, which had a circumference of about 27km.

When these particles collided, they created bursts of high energy. Such collisions themselves are too small to study but new, heavier particles can appear amongst the debris.

The Higgs boson is thought to be highly unstable and, once produced, should quickly decay.

Dr Renton cites indirect evidence taken from observations of the behaviour of other particles in colliders that agrees with the figure of 115 gigaelectronvolts for the mass of the Higgs boson.

"It's controversial. The data is possibly indicative, but it needs confirmation," said Bryan Webber, professor of theoretical physics at the University of Cambridge.

"Its mass is right at the maximum energy they could run the [LEP] at. But the indirect indications are that the Higgs boson should be close to that value."


The LEP's huge ring was used to study the particles in our universe

Mass giver

Physicists have observed 16 particles that make up all matter under the Standard Model of fundamental particles and interactions.

But the sums do not quite add up for the Standard Model to be true if these particles are considered alone. If only 16 particles existed, they would have no mass - contradicting what we know to be true in nature.

Another particle has to give them this mass. Enter the Higgs boson, first proposed by University of Edinburgh physicist Peter Higgs and colleagues in the late 1960s.

Their theory was that all particles acquire their mass through interactions with an all-pervading field, called the Higgs field, which is carried by the Higgs boson.

The Higgs' importance to the Standard Model has led some to dub it the "God particle".

Dr Renton said he hoped that once the large hadron collider was up and running in 2007, the Higgs boson would be detected within a year or two.

The LHC is a more energetic accelerator which will allow a much higher mass range to be explored. It will also be capable of producing much more intense particle beams which means that data can be aggregated much faster.



TOPICS: Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Philosophy; Technical; Unclassified
KEYWORDS: boson; crevolist; godparticle; higgs; higgsboson; higgsfield; lep; lhc; mass; particle; particles; peterrenton; physics; renton; science; standardmodel; unstable; unstableparticle
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To: Monty22
Get a life, leave me alone.

If you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen. If you whine and pine for more government spending and mourn the loss of giant porkbarrel projects then expect to get comments on it.

101 posted on 03/12/2004 6:26:55 AM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy, and Bush is no conservative)
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To: from occupied ga
There's no heat, except for that annoyance of having a mosquito buzzing your face nonstop.
102 posted on 03/12/2004 6:29:26 AM PST by Monty22
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To: Monty22
There's no heat, except for that annoyance of having a mosquito buzzing your face nonstop.

LOL Then you certaintly overreacted.

103 posted on 03/12/2004 6:34:12 AM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy, and Bush is no conservative)
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To: from occupied ga
No, it's just that you ruin otherwise fine threads with your anti-science rants. And that's a real shame too.
104 posted on 03/12/2004 6:35:57 AM PST by Monty22
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To: Monty22
No, it's just that you ruin otherwise fine threads with your anti-science rants. And that's a real shame too.

I see. I ruin threads when I post opinions contrary to your views. I guess that the only threads that aren't "ruined" are those where all of the posters agree 100% with your viewpoint. I didn't realize that FR was here solely for cheerleaders for government largesse and pork to post their viewpoints.

Let's see, so far you've done two really special democrat things. Cheered government spending, and tried to shut up someone who disagrees with you simply because they disagree with you.

Your version is:

We're working to roll back decades of governmental largesse, to root out political fraud and corruption, and to champion causes which further conservatism expand government largesse give root to political fraud and corruption by whining about lost pork and champion causes which further statism in America.

105 posted on 03/12/2004 6:51:21 AM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy, and Bush is no conservative)
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To: from occupied ga
All I ask is for you to stop trolling please.
106 posted on 03/12/2004 6:53:40 AM PST by Monty22
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To: Monty22
All I ask is for you to stop trolling please.

Now I'm a troll for disagreeing with you. You really need to grasp the concept that unless your name is Jim Robinson it isn't you who gets to determine the content of the threads. All I ask is for you to go to DU and do your government cheerleading there.

107 posted on 03/12/2004 7:01:46 AM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy, and Bush is no conservative)
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To: from occupied ga
Who do you think you are? Calling me a DU'er over and over.

You're *blatantly* trolling.
108 posted on 03/12/2004 7:07:19 AM PST by Monty22
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To: Monty22
Calling me a DU'er over and over.

If the shoe fits...

109 posted on 03/12/2004 7:10:38 AM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy, and Bush is no conservative)
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To: from occupied ga
I bet you don't have a lot of friends.
110 posted on 03/12/2004 7:12:21 AM PST by Monty22
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To: Monty22
I bet you don't have a lot of friends.

What! You mean I can't count you?

111 posted on 03/12/2004 7:18:36 AM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy, and Bush is no conservative)
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To: All
What a fascinating thread.
112 posted on 03/12/2004 7:26:19 AM PST by new cruelty
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To: P.O.E.
Could this be the final piece of the puzzle?

Probably not. Puzzle pieces float to the next dimension-- gravity a strong force?

113 posted on 03/12/2004 7:29:29 AM PST by GOPJ (NFL Owners: Grown men don't watch hollywood peep shows with wives and children.)
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To: Physicist
Would you please explain that to the accountants? They're really getting out of control over here!
114 posted on 03/12/2004 7:31:45 AM PST by m18436572
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To: from occupied ga
You're not trolling, and you're not anti-science either (as far as I can tell). But you're beating the issue of gov't funding of scientific research to death. We know your position. Many of us even understand it. And sympathize with it.

Personally, I don't object to defense-oriented research being funded by the feds. I see that as one of their few legitimate functions. The problem here, as in most things, is in knowing where to draw the line. Much of NASA's work is defense-oriented. But not all of it. I can't sort it all out, so I'm resolved to live with NASA. I don't want to cut it too close when it comes to our defense industries. Better too much of that than too little.

115 posted on 03/12/2004 7:48:43 AM PST by PatrickHenry (A compassionate evolutionist.)
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To: m18436572
They're really getting out of control over here!

LOL The fundamental law of physics is:
BEAN COUNTERS RULE THE UNIVERSE
and you don't need a supercollider to prove it.

116 posted on 03/12/2004 7:52:37 AM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy, and Bush is no conservative)
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To: PatrickHenry
I don't object to defense-oriented research being funded by the feds.

I don't either. As far as beating it to death goes, my viewpoint is expressed a lot less often than the "gosh wow isn't NASA great let's give 'em even more money" viewpoint. Just trying for a bit of balance here.

117 posted on 03/12/2004 7:56:16 AM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy, and Bush is no conservative)
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To: Victor
I haven't read everything on Einstein's theories; but, I'd imagine that mass might as well become infinite as friction
would invariably cause the energy required to increase speed to geometrically increase in proportion to the given resistance. The mass at some point might as well be infinite.
118 posted on 03/12/2004 9:44:54 AM PST by Havoc ("The line must be drawn here. This far and no further!")
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To: PatrickHenry
From Cornell University's obituary of Fermilab founder Robert R. Wilson:

in 1969, when Wilson was in the hot seat testifying before the Congressional Joint Committee on Atomic Energy, Sen. John Pastore demanded to know how a multimillion-dollar particle accelerator improved the security of the country. Wilson said the experimental physics machine had "nothing at all" to do with security, and the senator persisted. "It has only to do," Wilson told the lawmakers, "with the respect with which we regard one another, the dignity of men, our love of culture. It has to do with: Are we good painters, good sculptors, great poets? I mean all the things we really venerate in our country and are patriotic about. It has nothing to do directly with defending our country except to make it worth defending."

119 posted on 03/12/2004 9:00:41 PM PST by RightWingAtheist
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To: Momaw Nadon
Last month I attended a speech given by a science historian at Georgia Tech (John Krige is his name, I believe), who gave a fascinating lecture on the creation of CERN. It turns out that Europe's greatest physics facility was actually an American intiative created under the Marshal Plan, not just to aid in the reconstruction of postwar Europe, but to ensure Western scientific superiority encourage scientists on the other side of the Iron Curtain to defect to the West. It was opposed by some of the leading scientists of the time such as Frederic Joliot and Patrick Blackett (both great scientists but unfortunately, also left-wing lunatics), who felt it would diminish the Soviet's industrial and military lead. Fortunately, saner men, such as Niels Bohr (who was privately anti-communist, although he wasn't as outspoken as, Teller or Von Neumann) and I. I. Rabi managed to rally enough support amongst the European scientific community to get the facility started.
120 posted on 03/12/2004 9:09:03 PM PST by RightWingAtheist
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