Free Republic
Browse · Search
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

How To Win Minimum Wage Argument (Free Lesson From The Limbaugh Institute)
Rush Limbaugh .com ^ | 3/03/04 | The Maha

Posted on 03/03/2004 7:41:31 PM PST by Libloather

How To Win Minimum Wage Argument
March 3, 2004


RUSH: Fifteen years of service to humanity behind the Golden EIB Microphone, and yet these issues keep coming up. They keep needing to be explained, because there are people that keep tuning in, not just on this program, but getting interested in these issues, who instinctively, because they're very compassionate, think instinctively, raising the minimum wage, why, who's opposed to that? Why would anybody be opposed to raising the minimum wage? Why, you can't even live on it, why not raise it?

And that's why it's an easy sell, because people don't understand economics because it isn't properly taught at any level till you get to the Wharton Business School, and then they teach to you manipulate accounting books there. Just kidding! The point is that the minimum wage is earned by - 75% of the people who earn minimum wage are teenagers in entry-level positions. The minimum wage is not intended to support a family of two, three, four, or any number. The unions are the big proponents, and this is why liberals love this, of the minimum wage, because the minimum wage raises the pay scale everywhere else. If you're going to say that an unskilled, first-time job holder is worth, say, ten bucks an hour, then how can you say that the experienced, 30-year-old union worker, who's been working at this all of his life is not worth four times that? So the higher the minimum wage goes, the higher union contracts go.

But here's a way to catch liberals on this and, by the way, there's no reason the federal government should set arbitrarily the costs of labor, particularly at the lower end, when you talk about untrained, entry-level labor. The market should set that, not the government, because the higher the minimum wage goes, the fewer employees there are going to be per business, because there is not this endless pool of money to hire people. They have to fire others if they are made to hire more people than minimum wage.

Now, here's the thing you can ask. To any liberal, and it will work every time, I mean when I say it will work it will shut them up or it will make them trip up and say something that indicates they know they are engaged in defending a fallacy. What is the minimum wage right now anyway? Does anybody know what it is? I don't know what it is. Let's just guess. Okay, $6.15, let's round it off to seven bucks an hour. Let's just say the win wage is $7 an hour and let's say that Senator Kerry and the Democrats come along and suggest raising it to $10 an hour. They'll do this on the basis, "$7 is insulting. $7 an hour is paltry, why, a family of four can't live on $7 an hour. Why, that's absolutely offensive. Who in the world could live on that?" Ignoring all the while who earns the minimum wage.

So then your reaction to that is, well, wait a second, wait a second, if seven bucks is too little, why stop at ten? Why not raise the minimum wage to 20 bucks an hour? And the liberal will go, "Yeah, now you're talking, that's fair". Now you get wait a minute, why stop there. If 20 bucks an hour is better than ten, let's raise it to 30. "Yeah! It's even better! Why, why didn't they think of that? Minimum wage, 30 bucks an hour, that's fair! Businesses, they're screwing everybody. I need it. I deserve it. I'm an American."

Well, that's great, if 30 bucks an hour is fine for the minimum wage, let's make it 40. In fact, let's do this. Let's just establish the minimum wage as $75,000 a year. "Well, you can't do that." And then you ask, well, why not? "Well, that's too high."

Okay, let's make the minimum wage $40. Let's make the median income in this country, the minimum wage, minimum wage is $40,000. "Naw, you can't do that." Well, why not? And this is when the liberals are going to start going blah, blah, blah, blah, because the minimum wage is seven, and it ought to be ten, and then the ten can be 20, and the 20 can be 30, then why do you arbitrarily say $40,000 a year for minimum wage is too high? And at whatever figure, whatever salary, 40, 50, a hundred, whatever figure you give the liberal that makes him stop and say, "No, that's too much," you've won the argument because if he's willing to say that a certain level of wage is too high, then philosophically the argument is over because he is agreeing that at some point it gets too high. Why? It's not what the figure that he cites is too high. It's why he'll say so. "Well, you can't pay everybody that." Why not? "Well, some are not worth it..." Whatever answer they come up with, if it applies at 40, it applies at ten, because it's an arbitrary number, both the 40 grand a year as a minimum wage and ten bucks an hour as a minimum.

If $5.50 - Oh, good, double it $10.20 an hour, $10.30. "Still, that's not enough." Keep going, and I guarantee you folks you'll win this every time. Just don't get hung up on numbers. Numbers are irrelevant, all you're doing is coming up with a number to make the liberals say, "Ah, you can't go that high," because once the liberal says that, the liberal is admitting you can't just arbitrarily do that. I mean, they won't even know why they're saying it. This is all emotion. Some of them probably think, if you suggest it - I've had it happen on this program, by the way, I've suggested why don't we just all make a minimum of a hundred thousand dollars? Why doesn't it become federal law? And there are some liberals that would agree with. Then you could say, Okay, why stop there? Why doesn't everybody get a hundred thousand dollars a year and a Mercedes? "Yeah! That's even better!" And, in addition to a hundred thousand dollars a year and the Mercedes, a condo on the beach! "Yeah!" Now, at some point you could cause them all to stop. However ridiculous they're willing to be, at some point even a liberal will say, "Well, that's too much," and once that point is reached, you've won the argument. If you know what you're doing at that point.

TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Government
KEYWORDS: argument; free; institute; lesson; limbaugh; minimum; minimumwage; wage; win
If $5.50 - Oh, good, double it $10.20 an hour, $10.30.

From 3/01/04 -
...the minimum wage bill (A.9710) would raise New York's minimum hourly wage incrementally from $5.15 to $7.10 as of January 1, 2006.

1 posted on 03/03/2004 7:41:33 PM PST by Libloather
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Libloather
This has been my tactic for twenty years. Of course liberals just walk away and continue to espouse raising the minimum wage. Water-ducks back.
2 posted on 03/03/2004 8:01:16 PM PST by Arkinsaw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Libloather
I was sixteen years old, making $1.15 per when I asked the profound question, "Why is the government telling my boss how little to pay me?".

Why should any boss pay more if the gov'mint says that's all it's worth? Liberals know what they are doing, and if you think for a minute that the minimum wage is about compassion, you are a major idiot. It's about control and maintaining poverty at a level that can be managed for the good of the liberals' power.
3 posted on 03/03/2004 8:03:22 PM PST by whereasandsoforth (tagged for migratory purposes only)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: whereasandsoforth
Precisely. Well said!
4 posted on 03/03/2004 8:09:30 PM PST by SAJ
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Libloather
There is a bigger issue here, which is being cloaked with "help the low-wage earners who are trying to raise a family on 5.15/hr, etc,etc,etc.
Many MANY union contracts are tied to the minimum wage. Most don't realize that with handsome union wages and benefits that the minimum wage still comes into play. For every red cent that the minimum wage increases, these union contract wages go up accordingly. So a dollar an hour wage increase to "help the poverty", yadayada, is REALLY a raise of $1/hr for the union workers who flock to the Dems in droves.
It is really a wolf in sheep's clothing.
I tried to get into Rush's show today to say this, but couldn't.
The minimum wage was NEVER meant for a "family" to be raised. It is meant for the unemployed and fresh out of school to get a chance to learn a job or a new skill while learning on the job. I have felt for years that the "employee" should be paying the employer for the education he/she gets. They are useless for the first 3 weeks, anyway. Barely can find the bathroom.
5 posted on 03/03/2004 8:14:40 PM PST by ridesthemiles (ridesthemiles)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Libloather
SPOTREP - Economics
6 posted on 03/03/2004 8:45:49 PM PST by LiteKeeper
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Libloather
another hidden Rat benefit with raising minimum wage (assuming it doesn't cause layoffs)that they don't talk about, is increased revenue to the treasury...without actually having to vote to raise taxes.
7 posted on 03/03/2004 8:55:47 PM PST by stylin19a (Is it vietnam yet ?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Arkinsaw
Here's my questiont on the minimum wage issue. If I own and operate a small business and I work 60 hours a week, 52 weeks a year and I suffer a loss in a particular year, who do I look to to get paid my minimum wage for the year in question? Should I look to my employees and require them to reimburse me so that I get paid a minimum wage along with them?
8 posted on 03/03/2004 9:13:50 PM PST by vbmoneyspender
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Libloather
I nailed a greenie once on this. The person had printed out a sheet with a bunch of far-left websites, etc, for people to use to "get informed on the issues." This green also said she supported a minimum wage. I asked her if she printed those sheets out as a volunteer effort, like as a public service? "

"Yes," she said, she did.

"Well then, you would ban that. Volunteer work is by definition no pay, and yet you said there should be a minimum pay for any task."

"Uhhhhh...." she retorted. "I've never thought about it like that."
9 posted on 03/03/2004 9:25:04 PM PST by coloradan (Hence, etc.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: coloradan
Here is another one: If you can't raise a family of four on the minimum wage, then let's "means-test" it and only require it be paid to Heads of households with three dependents. In other words, to almost noone who earns the minimum wage. Means-test? Not in the liberal vocabulary.
10 posted on 03/03/2004 11:12:35 PM PST by rebel_yell2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: stylin19a
...another hidden Rat benefit...

I'm wondering how many jobs are lost when the minimum wage is boosted, say, a buck...

11 posted on 03/04/2004 3:23:57 PM PST by Libloather (Charter member - VRWC - # EIB-04151982)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: coloradan
I nailed a greenie once on this.

Feels good - eh?

12 posted on 03/04/2004 3:25:07 PM PST by Libloather (Charter member - VRWC - # EIB-04151982)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: whereasandsoforth
Man, did you hit the nail on the head. The minimum wage is pure socialism, plain and simple.

Here in WI Bingo Doyle wants to raise the state minimum-wage to - get this - attract more jobs. What a maroon.

13 posted on 03/04/2004 3:30:06 PM PST by ServesURight (FReecerely Yours,)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Libloather
From 3/01/04 - ...the minimum wage bill (A.9710) would raise New York's minimum hourly wage incrementally from $5.15 to $7.10 as of January 1, 2006.

From 3/01/04 -
...the minimum wage bill (A.9710) would raise New York's cost of goods and services incrementally by $1.95 as of January 1, 2006.

I think this is what negates any talk of raising the minimum wage. The money has to come from somewhere.
14 posted on 03/07/2004 10:05:26 AM PST by Thoro (Gridlocked government is better than active government.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Thoro
The money has to come from somewhere.

I have yet to see any stats on the matter but I've always wondered how many jobs are LOST when the minimum wage goes up and employers can no longer afford some employees.

We may never know...

15 posted on 03/07/2004 11:13:09 AM PST by Libloather (Charter member - VRWC - # EIB-04151982)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Libloather
I have a better argument.

Would you accept a pay cut to give a raise to minimum wage workers?

1) All products have the minimum wage associated with it somehow. The most obvious being grocery stores. Grocery stores opperate at about a 2% profit margin. If the shelf stockers get a raise then to pay them the store has to lay off workers or raise prices.

2) If prices at the grocery, the gas pump, the stores rise then you are paying more for a product with no value added, it is called inflation. Your dollars go less far therefore you took a pay cut.

3) When your dollars go less far then every dollar you have salted away buys less therefore you have taken a pay cut for every dollar you have ever earned.

4) Inflation causes fed to raise intrest rates to attempt to curb the inflation and money becomes tighter. Money becoming tighter causes business to reign in expenses including payroll and you have a recessionary cycle.

5) In addition, assume you were hired by a business 1 yr ago. You were hired in at minimum wage. You survived your 60 or 90 day probationary period by being there every day and you were there on time. You probably got a raise25-50 cents. Assume that you busted your tail every day and your boss noticed and rewarded you with a raise 25-50 cents. You passed your first year aniversary and got a raise 50-1.00. You are now making 1.50-2.50 an hour above minimum wage. Minimum wage goes up. The guy that got hired yesterday is now making what you did. Prices go up and effectively you are making less than you did before. What kind of message does this send to the young, entry level employees that actually want to work hard and be rewarded for their effort.
16 posted on 03/07/2004 11:56:18 AM PST by TASMANIANRED (black dogs are my life)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Libloather
I proffered this argument (and others) a few years back in:

Joe 6-pack's Questions for Liberals...

17 posted on 03/07/2004 11:58:56 AM PST by Joe 6-pack ("We deal in hard calibers and hot lead." - Roland Deschaines)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794 is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson