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Charles Darwin Knew: Science and Freedom
BreakPoint with Charles Colson | 1 Mar 04 | Charles Colson

Posted on 03/01/2004 1:02:07 PM PST by Mr. Silverback

Almost 150 years ago, Charles Darwin knew something that the scientific establishment seems to have forgotten -- something that is being endangered today in the state of Ohio.

In Ohio, high school science students are at risk of being told that they are not allowed to discuss questions and problems that scientists themselves openly debate. While most people understand that science is supposed to consider all of the evidence, these students, and their teachers, may be prevented from even looking at the evidence -- evidence already freely available in top science publications.

In late 2002, the Ohio Board of Education adopted science education standards that said students should know "how scientists investigate and critically analyze aspects of evolutionary theory." The standards did not say that schools should teach intelligent design. They mandate something much milder. According to the standards, students should know that "scientists may disagree about explanations . . . and interpretations of data" -- including the biological evidence used to support evolutionary theory. If that sounds like basic intellectual freedom, that's because it is.

The Ohio Department of Education has responded by implementing this policy through the development of an innovative curriculum that allows students to evaluate both the strengths and the weaknesses of Darwinian evolution.

And that has the American scientific establishment up in arms. Some groups are pressuring the Ohio Board to reverse its decision. The president of the National Academy of Sciences has denounced the "Critical Analysis" lesson -- even though it does nothing more than report criticisms of evolutionary theory that are readily available in scientific literature.

Hard as it may be to believe, prominent scientists want to censor what high school students can read and discuss. It's a story that is upside-down, and it's outrageous. Organizations like the National Academy of Sciences and others that are supposed to advance science are doing their best to suppress scientific information and stop discussion.

Debates about whether natural selection can generate fundamentally new forms of life, or whether the fossil record supports Darwin's picture of the history of life, would be off-limits. It's a bizarre case of scientists against "critical analysis."

And the irony of all of this is that this was not Charles Darwin's approach. He stated his belief in the ORIGIN OF SPECIES: "A fair result can be obtained only by fully stating and balancing the facts and arguments on both sides of each question." Darwin knew that objective science demands free and open inquiry, and while I disagree with Darwin on many things, on this he was absolutely right. And I say what's good enough for scientists themselves, as they debate how we got here, is good enough for high school students.

Contact us here at BreakPoint (1-877-322-5527) to learn more about this issue and about an intelligent design conference we're co-hosting this June.

The Ohio decision is the leading edge of a wedge breaking open the Darwinist stranglehold on science education in this country. The students in Ohio -- and every other state -- deserve intellectual freedom, and they deserve it now.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy; US: Ohio
KEYWORDS: charlescolson; crevolist; education; evolution; scienceeducation
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To: Right Wing Professor
You're right. I am certain 2+2 is not equal to 5. You aren't?

Problem is you compared critical analysis to a student proclaiming with certitude that 2+2=5. If that is your idea of critical analysis...well...

I come form a philosophical background so I believe all certitude is overrated.

Are you speaking in your capacity as a lawyer, or as a scientist?

Currently I speaking in my capacity as a Love God but I don't know what that has to do with anything. I have been and will always strive to be a student - if a professor does not understand the difference between starting certitude and providing critical analysis - I would drop the class.

141 posted on 03/01/2004 4:45:06 PM PST by Last Visible Dog
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To: jennyp
Within that recommended list, the only links that take the student to webpages that deal with "critical analyses of evolution" are ARN, ObjectivityInScience.org, and Origins.org. Can you look me in the eye, and with a straight face tell me that these sites are representative of the kinds of arguments that real, working biologists are making against aspects of evolutionary theory? Do you really believe that these sites are offering the students critical analyses of evolution, in the best sense of that term? Pedagogically speaking, would the students be well-served to be encouraged to go to those sites and study their arguments?

You really don't make any since. If the evidence is so weak all that will happen is students will be exposed to weak opposing evidence that will help and support their understanding of the subject. What is so wrong with presenting this data? Why shouldn't students understand all that is out there?

142 posted on 03/01/2004 4:49:23 PM PST by Last Visible Dog
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To: roylene
After reading your long answer to my post "life from non life", I really began to think about what was said - I wondered if all the pieces necessary to build a 747 were laying in a junk yard unassembled - would they at some point find their way together to become the plane?

No they wouldn't, because mechanical/electronic components do not spontaneously interact. Organic chemicals do.

That's why the scenarios examined in the papers you apparently didn't read are realistic ones, and also why you shouldn't let Fred Hoyle do your thinking for you by borrowing his goofy "747 in a junkyard" example.

143 posted on 03/01/2004 4:51:06 PM PST by Ichneumon
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To: Last Visible Dog
What is so wrong with presenting this data? Why shouldn't students understand all that is out there?

Why not teach them what the Nation of Islam thinks -- that the caucasian race is the product of a scientific experiment by Africans that went awry?

I mean, if we're going to expose them to biblical creationism as science why not present ALL origin stories -- native american, new age, reincarnation, etc, etc?

What's the harm?

144 posted on 03/01/2004 4:56:38 PM PST by gdani (letting the marketplace decide = conservatism)
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To: Last Visible Dog
show them the data and let them decide

Exactly what data are you going to show them. The data supporting geological and biological theories has been accumulating for several hundred years. There is not a library in the world that could hold it all, at least in printed form. There is no one alive who has the time to read it all.

Having everyone analyze all of the raw data is not what science is about.

145 posted on 03/01/2004 4:56:54 PM PST by js1138
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To: Last Visible Dog
Critical analysis of evolution has absolutely nothing to with the creationist/ID position. Why do you evo-reactionaries have such a hard understanding it. Finding flows in evolution does not then support the creationist/ID position. Heck, if it was proved that evolution was entirely false – that would not support the creationist/ID position; it would just disprove evolution (and I not implying that is happening).

Good, then tell that to all the creationist websites/pamphlets/books which keep providing (alleged) arguments *against* evolution in their lists of "evidence for creation".

For example, in the creationist website listed in post #45 on this very thread, under their page entitled "Scientific Evidence for Creation", they include such head-scratchers as "Scientific Problems With Macroevolution" and complaints about "Carbon Dating".

Get back to me when you've done that. Thanks.

146 posted on 03/01/2004 4:57:15 PM PST by Ichneumon
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To: Right Wing Professor
You mean, critical analysis in the postmodern sense? Or what?

Critical analysis - n : an appraisal based on careful analytical evaluation

Critical analysis has meaning outside of "postmodern" so I see no need to add this variation.

147 posted on 03/01/2004 4:57:44 PM PST by Last Visible Dog
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To: roylene
Second point: the theory evolution never was meant to explain the origins of life - a common mispresption.

Um, ok.

2a. Evolution is not an X / Y graph ie: time / chance

Did anyone say that it was?

148 posted on 03/01/2004 4:59:49 PM PST by Ichneumon
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To: RightWingNilla
The author of this article is implying that evolution is a contreversial theory among scientists. It isn't.

I hate to break this to you but you do not speak for all scientists and it is very weird that you are attempting to do so.

149 posted on 03/01/2004 5:00:01 PM PST by Last Visible Dog
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To: txzman
There is nothing currently scientific about intelligent design. That may change, but until then, ID has no place in a science classroom.

You may think so, but hundreds of prominent scientists, if not thousands, disagree. The 'facts' are a moving target my friend. What is today's 'certainty' is tomorrow's 'great question'.

And before you flame away, Genesis, in the original Hebrew, does not conflict with either evolutionary change of species or age of the earth.

That may be part of God's plan, however He did not deem it necessary to write a paper like those put forth with such great claims by scientists who do not accept Intelligent Design.

So what is it that YOU are so certain about? Or is it just your bias speaking?

Thousands? I don't think so. But since you seemed to be so plugged in to the ID, perhaps you can help me. In the three or four years I've been on this site, I've had a standing question to ID supporters. Since they think ID should be taught alongside evolution in science classes, it should be scientific. Can you describe to me the theory of intelligent design, and show me experiments subject to the scientific method that determine the predictive power of ID as well as or better than the ToE.

To date, no one has done so. My research into ID sites like arn.org, as well as other ID sites have proved similarly fruitless. Therefore, the only choice that remains is that ID is an unscientific theory, and therefore should not be taught in a science class. If ID becomes a fruitful line of scientific endeavor, then I'll change my tune.

If there are 'thousands' of prominent scientists working on this, then surely there has to have been something useful to have come out the research program, right? Where is it?

Religion has no part in science. I do not visit a doctor for a religious question or problem, so I do not understand why people feel the need to listen to a religious expert in matters of science. It's very illogical, don't you think?

150 posted on 03/01/2004 5:00:02 PM PST by ThinkPlease (Fortune Favors the Bold!)
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To: balrog666
As opposed to those who "think" they speak for God? BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHA!!!

Who on this thread claimed they were speaking for God? Guess you spend too much time laughing and are unable to keep up with the thread.

151 posted on 03/01/2004 5:02:38 PM PST by Last Visible Dog
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To: Last Visible Dog
Is "Right Wing Professor" actually implying the theory of evolution has the same amount of certainty as 2+2=4?

Yes. Evolution is a Fact and a Theory.

Sample:

It is time for students of the evolutionary process, especially those who have been misquoted and used by the creationists, to state clearly that evolution is a fact, not theory, and that what is at issue within biology are questions of details of the process and the relative importance of different mechanisms of evolution. It is a fact that the earth with liquid water, is more than 3.6 billion years old. It is a fact that cellular life has been around for at least half of that period and that organized multicellular life is at least 800 million years old. It is a fact that major life forms now on earth were not at all represented in the past. There were no birds or mammals 250 million years ago. It is a fact that major life forms of the past are no longer living. There used to be dinosaurs and Pithecanthropus, and there are none now. It is a fact that all living forms come from previous living forms. Therefore, all present forms of life arose from ancestral forms that were different. Birds arose from nonbirds and humans from nonhumans. No person who pretends to any understanding of the natural world can deny these facts any more than she or he can deny that the earth is round, rotates on its axis, and revolves around the sun.

The controversies about evolution lie in the realm of the relative importance of various forces in molding evolution.

- R. C. Lewontin "Evolution/Creation Debate: A Time for Truth" Bioscience 31, 559 (1981) reprinted in Evolution versus Creationism, op cit.


152 posted on 03/01/2004 5:04:25 PM PST by Ichneumon
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To: ThinkPlease
Explicitly, no, they don't. But then, just about every "controversy" in the lesson is a Chapter in Wells' book, isn't it? A duck by any other name is still a duck. It quacks like a duck, it looks like a duck, it must be a duck.

You must have a Master's Degree in Reading Between the Lines and possibly a Minor in Seeing Things That are Not Really There...or I could be wrong.

153 posted on 03/01/2004 5:05:46 PM PST by Last Visible Dog
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To: Elsie
They've re-packaged the 747 in a junkyard to a bunch of real teeny parts, and us "C" types aren't supposed to notice.....

The problem is that "you 'C' types" keep failing to notice that there are fundamental differences between 747 components and organic molecules, resulting in vastly different characteristics of behavior.

A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

154 posted on 03/01/2004 5:06:46 PM PST by Ichneumon
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To: Elsie
Could you re-post this: in your own words of course...

Certainly. And if you could explain what exactly you mean by "this", I'll be glad to.

155 posted on 03/01/2004 5:08:25 PM PST by Ichneumon
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To: ThinkPlease
Of course, I ask again, did you actually read the lesson plan, or did you let someone else do the interpretation for you?

This thread is about an article - I am responding to that. If this thread was about a lesson plan, then I would respond to it. I have not studied the fine art of Reading Between the Lines so I do not see things that are not there.

156 posted on 03/01/2004 5:08:47 PM PST by Last Visible Dog
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To: Elsie
FLASHBACK: In the mists of time we find a slightly changed organism thinking, "Today, I'm gonna f**k myself."

Actually, that's not a plausible scenario for the origin of sexual reproduction, but thanks for demonstrating your level of understanding on this topic.

157 posted on 03/01/2004 5:09:55 PM PST by Ichneumon
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To: Mr. Silverback
I think it is a travesty that Creationists refuse to educate their own children in their beliefs and instead demand that the public schools do it.

When I was growing up religious organizations had their own "Sunday Schools" or other forms of religion classes. Now it seems these organizations want public schools to carry the burden of the religious education of their kids.

158 posted on 03/01/2004 5:12:48 PM PST by Jeff Gordon (LWS - Legislating While Stupid. Someone should make this illegal.)
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To: gdani
Now, creationists have reams of words and examples and math for their theories. So do evolutionists. Each side would say, "So long as they are verifiable", meaning the other side isn't.

159 posted on 03/01/2004 5:12:53 PM PST by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: Ichneumon
But tell me, who was trying to ban "critical analysis" in the following?

That was from 1925. That is 79 years ago. Way before my time. Currently these people are all dead (or close to it). Now back to the present - currently in this context it is evolutionists that are trying to ban critical analysis not the "creationists"

160 posted on 03/01/2004 5:15:37 PM PST by Last Visible Dog
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