Posted on 02/20/2004 11:05:52 AM PST by ancient_geezer
Edited on 05/07/2004 5:22:17 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
In an annual, less than pleasant ritual, the taxpayers will prepare their 2003 federal income tax returns. The 113,000 employees of the U.S. Internal Revenue Service will process about 200 million tax returns that will have been filed by April 15.
(Excerpt) Read more at azcentral.com ...
So, as we struggle with our tax forms to beat the midnight deadline at the post office on April 15, let us remember that it was We the People who made the decision to have a federal income tax and gave to Congress unlimited authority to change the conditions and the amount of the tax.
Seems to me it's time to quit bitch'n and start the effort in cleaning house.
If you would like to be added to this ping list let me know.
John Linder in the House & Saxby Chambliss Senate, offer a comprehensive bill to kill all income and payroll taxes outright, and provide a IRS free replacement in the form of a pure consumption tax:
H.R.25
SPONSOR: Rep Linder, John (introduced 01/7/2003)
A bill to promote freedom, fairness, and economic opportunity by repealing the income tax and other taxes, abolishing the Internal Revenue Service, and enacting a national retail sales tax to be administered primarily by the States.S.1493
Sponsor: Sen Chambliss, Saxby [GA] (introduced 7/30/2003)
Title: A bill to promote freedom, fairness, and economic opportunity by repealing the income tax and other taxes, abolishing the Internal Revenue Service, and enacting a national sales tax to be administered primarily by the States.
So Ron Paul's amendment has a chance at enactment & ratification:
H.J.RES.15
Sponsor: Rep Paul, Ron [TX-14] (introduced 1/28/2003)
Title: Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States relative to abolishing personal income, estate, and gift taxes and prohibiting the United States Government from engaging in business in competition with its citizens.
(But lets modified it to prohibit all income, payroll, gift estate taxes as HR25 calls for, or we will see European VAT style hidden taxes along with payroll excises to take over in the place of the of the current individual income tax(i.e. personal income tax) that Ron Paul amendment prohibits.)
But the problem behind the joke is that it's not just the amount that is the problem. The code is hideously complex, and that serves well those who benefit from it, namely Congresscritters and IRS employees. (Not to mention an accountant or two here and there.) One of the many selling points of a retail sales tax as an income tax replacement is its simplicity.
I like the idea of having election day on April 14.
I get your point but why have any day be a "tax" day.
One problem with the income tax is, it is used to distort the perception of people as to the real burden and who pays. As a concequence, those who think the pay little "income" tax or are getting credits, are not going to vote any different just because election day is the day before.
- "There has been a shift in the relationship between individuals and government, he argues, such that fewer and fewer are paying taxes at the same time that more and more are receiving increasingly generous benefits. If it becomes the case that most voters do not bear a financial burden for this largess, then there will be little to restrain--and significant political incentives to encourage--the continued growth of government. And at that point, DeMint warns, we have reached a major crisis in our democracy."
Milton Friedman as quoted by Northwest Florida Daily News, 10-16-2000:
- "If we're to have an income tax, it's a good thing for everyone to pay at least a nominal amount," he said. "If non-taxpayers become a majority in society, what would restrain them from voting for ever higher taxes on others?"
Walter Williams, World Net Daily, 10-25-2000
- If you're among those who pay little or no federal income taxes, what do you care about tax cuts? ... So many Americans paying little or no federal taxes makes for a natural spending constituency. It's like me in the restaurant: What do I care about extravagance if you're footing the bill?
Get the bugger's out of our family financial affairs, end the anal exams, end the perpetual legal jeopardy of income taxes.
The founders knew the problem:
[Montesquieu wrote in Spirit of the Laws, XIII,c.14:]
- "A capitation is more natural to slavery; a duty on merchandise is more natural to liberty, by reason it has not so direct a relation to the person."
--Thomas Jefferson: copied into his Commonplace Book.Patrick Henry, Virginia Ratifying Convention June 12, 1788:
- "the oppression arising from taxation, is not from the amount but, from the mode -- a thorough acquaintance with the condition of the people, is necessary to a just distribution of taxes. The whole wisdom of the science of Government, with respect to taxation, consists in selecting the mode of collection which will best accommodate to the convenience of the people."
And the solution:
- It is fairer to tax people on what they extract from the economy, as roughly measured by their consumption, than to tax them on what they produce for the economy, as roughly measured by their income.
So why insist on Income taxes, when we know of a proven better means to tax.
Don't try to lay this on ME, bud. I wasn't even born until about 50 years after the damn tax started. I can assure everyone that had I been a) born and b) male and thereby allowed to vote, I would have negged it.
Supporting the repeal of the income/payroll tax system? How many of your freinds, neighbors, aquaintenances, have you convinced to repeal the tax, or vote for those who do want it to end.
Are you out their running for office to see it done?
What are you offering as a substantive substitute that has a chance to be enacted?
Sitting and just griping about someone else caused it, does not relieve you of your responsibility to see change occur.
You have to get out and push the cart, and lead the parade abit for change to happen.
I agree and I stand corrected.
I'm rather fond of my own reform ideas - found through my FR homepage. Do you think those ideas are winners. Perhaps I could play up on the fact that I'm a decorated Gulf War Veteran...oops, the media only allows that to work for veteran candidates who believe in a larger federal government.
The IRS says the average Jane/Joe pays 15% more in taxes to cover for IBM
LOL, IBM, ect. don't pay the tax anyway. They just collect it from the customer (you) and pass it on to government at substantial expense while doing it.
Actually the amount is much closer to 22%(the amount prices would fall with an NRST only system) than 15%.
The following article covers the mechanism on how the current Federal tax system propagates and is embedded into consumption expenditure.
DO YOU PAY YOUR INCOME TAX
AT THE SUPERMARKET?
by D. Sherman Cox J.D. L.L.M. Taxation
The 24% in the article considers only those factors actually paid to government out of imposititions on business in complying with the income, payroll, excise & tariff tax laws.
I refer you to the section of the following article about the Income/Payroll tax system and its impact on our economy "A. Hidden Upstream Taxes. " paragraph 39.
"[39] Dr. Dale Jorgenson, Chairman of Harvard University's Economics Department, believes that the price of goods and services are inflated by about 20 percent or more by upstream taxes consumers ultimately bear. In a recent paper Dr. Jorgenson estimated the built-in taxes contained in the price of goods and services. /22/ In the chart above, he quantified the hidden component of tax, estimating that producer prices would fall on repeal of upstream taxes an average of about 22 percent."
Looking at the accompanying chart, the range of values from industry to industry appears to be about 12-25%.
Economists Gary and Aldonna Robbins of the Texas-based Institute for Public Policy examined the case of dry cleaning a shirt, with a particular eye toward uncovering the hidden costs of taxes in price.
The Robbin's attributed over 33.6% of "consumer prices" to be due to federal taxation passed on to the customer.
The Federal Tax System
http://www.cbo.gov/showdoc.cfm?index=2125&sequence=0&from=1#pt1
From the Table 1 we may extract the proportionate contributions of each sector of taxes as they contribute to consumer price for the year 2000.
Those tax components which will not change prices as a consequence of enactment of HR2525
============================
Adjust for the approximate reduction of interest & cost of tax compliance (
Adjust for a conservative $800 billion cost of tax compliance, (Payne '95 estimates 65cents for each dollar of revenue collected, $1264billion) reductions .
Estimated change in consumption prices as consequence of enactment of a National Retail Sales Tax, repealing all business income and payroll taxes:
33.6*(1386.5/1945) = 23.9% reduction in consumption prices
Which more than verifies the Jorgenson empirical study of 22% fall in producer prices.
The two sources are in reasonable agreement, and I see 20-25% a reasonable value to expect retail prices to fall, not only for customers here in the United States, but in our exports as well making them far more competitive on international markets.
It would be very difficult to run on a platform of a true tax reform because the Republican Party will allow you to wear its title as a U.S. Senate candidate - the senate, in my opinion, is where this reform needs to be hammered through. Difficult but not impossible; however one's electibilty as an Independent is completely up to popularity.
Here's some a lists of current Critter's doing it, and having success at it:
for both House & Senate, if your Critters are waffling or not supporting the NRST let them know that it matters.
And some not on those lists "yet".
Senate
Herman Cain, position regards tax reform, May 9 2002:
& website Herman Cain for United States Senate, state of Georgia 2004
House
Dennis Umphress, libertarian (California 16th District)
There are others out their just haven't managed to track them all down yet. Working on it though.
Careful, you might get the boot if you don't pledge to vote for those in power no matter how much you disagree with them for supporting the income tax.
Careful, you might get the boot if you don't pledge to vote for those in power
Phhhhttt! so much for that thought.
Vote for those willing to go for the NRST.
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