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THE WORLD’S GREATEST CREATION SCIENTISTS (VON BRAUN)
Creation-Evolution Headlines ^ | 1/1/2000 | Creation-Evolution Headlines

Posted on 02/07/2004 5:41:19 PM PST by bondserv

  Wernher von Braun     1912 - 1977 

“It’s not exactly rocket science, you know.”  The cliche implies that rocket science is the epitome of something that is difficult, obscure, and abstruse; something comprehensible only by the brainiest of the smart.  Names that qualify for the title “father of rocket science” include Tsiolkovsky, Goddard, and von Braun.  But Konstantin Tsiolkovsky was mostly a visionary and chalkboard theorist, and Robert Goddard only targeted the upper atmosphere for his projects; he was also secretive and suspicious of others to a fault.  Of the three, and any others that could be listed, Wernher von Braun has the prestige of actually taking mankind from the simple beginnings of rocketry all the way to the moon and the planets.  His name is almost synonymous with rocket science.  He is an icon of the space age.  As we will see, he should be remembered for much more than that.

Von Braun (pronounced fon BROWN – and roll the R) is important in this series because he was recent enough to be in the living memory of many, and we have a great deal of documentation, photographs and motion pictures of him.  Even young people (that is, anyone under 40) who did not live through the glory days of Apollo are all familiar with three of von Braun’s last great projects he took from vision to reality: the Space Shuttle, orbiting space stations and interplanetary travel.  Unquestionably, he had a great deal of help.  One does not do rocket science alone!  At the height of the Apollo program, some 600,000 employees were involved in tasks from machining parts to managing large flight operations centers.  Yet by wide consensus and by results achieved, Wernher von Braun was a giant among giants: highly regarded by his peers, respected by all who worked with him, a celebrity to the public, showered with honors, and unquestionably responsible for much of the success of the space program.  Few have ever personally taken a dream of epic proportions to reality.  The peaceful exploration of space!  It was the stuff of dreams — dreams by Kepler, Jules Verne, science fiction novels and countless childhood imaginations, yet today it is almost too commonplace.  Von Braun dreamed, but made it happen.  He was the right man with the right stuff at the right time.

What kind of person was he?  Many great scientists are quirkish or aloof in their personal lives, but we’re going to reveal a lesser-known side of von Braun, a spiritual side that kept him humble, grateful, unselfish, and strong.  We’ll see a remarkably well-rounded individual, a family man who loved swimming and travel and popularizing science for children; a man who loved life, had charisma and energy and dignity and integrity, handled huge projects yet kept a winning smile and a sense of humor even in the most stressful of project deadlines.  We’ll see a model of leadership that success-bound corporate heads would do well to emulate.  Maybe you didn’t know (incidentally) that he was also a Christian and creationist.  But first, a review of his record.

Link

(Excerpt) Read more at creationsafaris.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: creation; science; scientists; vonbraun; wernhervonbraun
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To: PatrickHenry
What do those gaps tell you? That you still have a chance of finding something -- anything -- that might give evolution a problem? Does that disprove evolution? Why is it so easy for you to sweep aside the mountains of evidence supporting the theory?

No sweeping here, although I see the evidence as islands more than mountains. My personal OPINON is that Evolution is a part of Intelligent Design. I don't personally think Evolution could ever effectively argue against Intelligent Design (assuming it would even want to) unless it could fill all those gaps though. Intermediate theories like PE show some movement towards what I consider to be the beginnings of a healthy objectivity, if only because it shows someone is willing to stand up and say "you know what? We really can't say what happened" (even if they cave a moment later and spin out a "probable" explanation). A little humility can go along way, in my view.

I think it is analogous to where cosmologists are today. They have abandoned the attempt to restrict their models to the 4 perceivable dimensions to describe the fundamental universe of matter and energy. Perhaps someday even evolutionists will move past the mechanical chauvinism of the ancient world in their attempts to describe the transcendental universe of life and intelligence.

81 posted on 02/08/2004 3:57:40 PM PST by ventana
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To: balrog666
> There's a sucker born every minute. Hope you enjoyed your minute.

Get back to me after you die.

Say, what sort of conservative are you?
82 posted on 02/08/2004 3:58:13 PM PST by old-ager
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To: ventana
No sweeping here, although I see the evidence as islands more than mountains.

That's a quibble. The significant thing is that all the evidence supports the theory. There's just no way of avoiding that.

My personal OPINON is that Evolution is a part of Intelligent Design. I don't personally think Evolution could ever effectively argue against Intelligent Design (assuming it would even want to) unless it could fill all those gaps though.

If there is some designer behind evolution, he does his work in such a way that there's no trace of his activities. This designer operates no differently than if he didn't exist. So his existence makes no difference regarding the evidence we are given to examine. The evidence certainly seems to support evolution theory. The designer, if there is one, seems to be pure philosophical surplusage. If the gaps were all filled (they never could be), ID advocates would merely claim that the designer did a really neat job. As I said earlier, there is no way to disprove ID. That's why it's not regarded as science.

Intermediate theories like PE show some movement towards what I consider to be the beginnings of a healthy objectivity, if only because it shows someone is willing to stand up and say "you know what? We really can't say what happened" (even if they cave a moment later and spin out a "probable" explanation). A little humility can go along way, in my view.

PE is not an intermediate theory. It's evolution. Darwin himself pointed out that the rate of speciation was variable, with long periods of stasis, sometimes followed by (geologically) rapid changes. If the mutated group were geographically isolated from their parent stock, they would, after becoming a somewhat different species, start to spread out to new areas, and they would then appear in the fossil record as if they were suddenly new. This makes a lot of sense. But it's evolution, not anything else.

I think it is analogous to where cosmologists are today. They have abandoned the attempt to restrict their models to the 4 perceivable dimensions to describe the fundamental universe of matter and energy.

I don't see the analogy at all.

Perhaps someday even evolutionists will move past the mechanical chauvinism of the ancient world in their attempts to describe the transcendental universe of life and intelligence.

Perhaps. But they'll probably go where the evidence leads them.

83 posted on 02/08/2004 4:36:20 PM PST by PatrickHenry (Theory: a comprehensible, falsifiable, cause-and-effect explanation of verifiable facts.)
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To: PatrickHenry
It looks like Douglas picked and choosed what passages in the Bible he chose to believe. Bad move any way you look at it. This behavior always leaves one with an inconsistent testimony.

Colossians 3:11
“there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all”
84 posted on 02/08/2004 4:59:57 PM PST by bondserv (Alignment is critical!)
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To: bondserv
It looks like Douglas picked and choosed what passages in the Bible he chose to believe.

Many people do, and I suppose they would all deny it. Everyone has what he truly believes is the one true way to understand scripture. In any event, Douglas won the election. His opinions were apparently widly held. As I said, racism didn't begin with Darwin. You really ought to drop that argument.

85 posted on 02/08/2004 5:14:14 PM PST by PatrickHenry (Theory: a comprehensible, falsifiable, cause-and-effect explanation of verifiable facts.)
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To: PatrickHenry
I readily admit there have been abuses meted out by so-called Christians throughout history. The Middle Ages are evidence of an illiterate body of believers run amok, brought on by the deliberate attempts by those in power to keep the population ignorant. Any and all of those infractions were as a result of there misconstruing straightforward direction laid out in the context of the passages of scripture. The reason our constitution outshines any former attempt at governance is because a majority of the formers were literate, God honoring Christians.

It is quite clear from the writings of the founders that many of them struggled with the practice of slavery. There were also some who justified slavery because the Bible spoke in terms of master and slave. However, a contextual reading of the passages reveals that God endorsed servants, as in workers who worked and lived with their boss.

A Bondservant was a servant that when his or her tenure of service had been completed was free to leave, but instead chose to continue in the service of their boss (master). They would put a large earring in their ear to symbolize their commitment to the house of their boss.

Unfortunately, many southern Christians chose to sinfully equate their own practice of slavery with the indentured version endorsed in scripture. Their materialistic desire to prosper put them at odds with Christ's straightforward message. This debate was ongoing in the American church during the two hundred years leading up to the emancipation.

In the end, and with much damage done to the testimony of Christians, and dehumanizing of the slaves in America, the country got it right. As you may note many Christians are hesitant to criticize the Presidents desire to welcome immigrants as freely as our economic stability will allow. However, the Bible reveals it is critical for those immigrants to assimilate to our morals, laws and language in order to facilitate the stability in absorbing new hard working individuals into our society.

These principals for right thinking are clearly taught in the pages of the Holy Bible. As our nation, via science or via the overlawyering that Jesus attacked so adamantly in the 1st century Jewish nation will fall just as all other great societies of the past.

Even though mankind is going to twist off into blatant rebellion against God in the end, it would be prudent for us as a nation to get back to the foundation of what made this country the greatest in history, for our children’s sake.
86 posted on 02/08/2004 8:08:43 PM PST by bondserv (Alignment is critical!)
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To: PatrickHenry
P.S. The reason I chose the handle bondserv is because, of my own free will, I have chosen to allow Jesus to put a ring in my heart. The Holy Spirit inspired me to the fact that it was needful, and I chose to respond in the affirmative.
87 posted on 02/08/2004 8:15:26 PM PST by bondserv (Alignment is critical!)
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To: PatrickHenry; bondserv; ventana; old-ager

In any event, once life exists, however it happens, evolution then begins.

 

Does it continue at the same RATE as in the past?

It seems to me, that whatever drives evolution, it would still be going on today.

If this is so, then there should be all kinds of tumors or growths on MANY creatures, that appear to have no function: yet, as all the needed changes aren't in place yet.  [This would corespond to the SLOW change rate side of the E theory: on our way to building an eye, for example]

Are these types of things found??

On the FAST rate of change side of the E theory, we should be finding (at least occasionally) creatures with completely foreign (to their genus) parts that have never been seen before. (Conjoined and extra head parts in humans do NOT fit this category: Do they??)  Do we find creatures like this??  [What good are those extra eyes that spiders have?

 

 


 


88 posted on 02/09/2004 5:09:18 AM PST by Elsie (When the avalanche starts... it's too late for the pebbles to vote....)
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To: All
I fail to understand why Biologists, most ALL of them ardent E types, are so upset over Extinction of species...


They have simply become, for whatever reason, less able to survive. Less fit, as it were.

Well, golly: too bad, I say, as a top-of-the-line E model of almost perfection.

We can kill 'em ALL ('cept them pesky germs and viruses), so they'd better get on the stick if they want to hang around much longer (for OUR enjoyment only: we like to imprison them and LOOK at them).

Like the aphids that are enslaved by the ants, we WILL keep some species in great numbers ('cause they're tasty, mostly) Those others will just have to survive (somehow) or DIE!!

That's the way of the world...
Too bad, but it's been going on for zillions of time slots.
89 posted on 02/09/2004 5:18:58 AM PST by Elsie (When the avalanche starts... it's too late for the pebbles to vote....)
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To: Elsie; All
Speaking of biologists....

They say that the cheetahs are endangered because the DNA of them is too much alike. Too many first cousins gettin' it on kitty style and the inbreeding will sap the strength of them soon or later.

If that's so, then HOW did each separate specie we see today ever get to be so robust and strong, if they TOO started with just a few individuals??

Did the E rules CHANGE somewhere?
90 posted on 02/09/2004 5:24:00 AM PST by Elsie (When the avalanche starts... it's too late for the pebbles to vote....)
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To: Junior
It was an essential belief in Nazi ideology that survival of the fittest pertained to the aryan race. Hitler was a Darwinist. Whether all Nazis were Darwinists or not is rather disingenuous: not all Democrats are pro-choice, but the party is and more than likely, so are most members.
91 posted on 02/09/2004 7:22:03 AM PST by TradicalRC (While the wicked stand confounded, Call me, with thy saints surrounded. -The Boondock Saints)
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To: Elsie
Now, now, now Elsie, we will have none of that stating the obvious with a group of people who have invested their entire worldview on a patchwork of ideas that you expose as an irreparable model. Can't we all just get along.
92 posted on 02/09/2004 7:31:51 AM PST by bondserv (Alignment is critical!)
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To: bondserv; PatrickHenry
On the contrary. I would put the knowledge of the Scholastics up against anyone today, flaws and all. If you are attempting to show that because Aquinas was wrong about something that we cannot trust him in other matters, you are seriously wrong.

Anyone can do this to anyone else with the end being that you cannot trust anyone. Nixon lied about Watergate so how can we believe that we sent a man to the moon during his presidency?

As regards the issue of slavery, Scripture has specific proscriptions about it. The assumption that we have ended it is false on many levels: we ended the capitalist version of it in this country and that's it. The socialist version of slavery still exists in this country as the government believes that it has a right to the product of your labor.
To claim moral superiority to ancestors who owned slaves as we indulge in one of the most promiscuous eras in history is ridiculous at best.

And as racism didn't start with Darwin, it must also be stated that egalitarianism didn't start with Marx.

93 posted on 02/09/2004 7:53:16 AM PST by TradicalRC (While the wicked stand confounded, Call me, with thy saints surrounded. -The Boondock Saints)
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To: Elsie
If that's so, then HOW did each separate specie we see today ever get to be so robust and strong, if they TOO started with just a few individuals??

What makes you think this is part of evolutionary theory?

94 posted on 02/09/2004 7:56:13 AM PST by js1138
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To: TradicalRC
It was an essential belief in Nazi ideology that survival of the fittest pertained to the aryan race. Hitler was a Darwinist.

Actually, although we never bring it up unless someone on your side of the debate raises this issue, Hitler was a creationist:

For it was by the Will of God that men were made of a certain bodily shape, were given their natures and their faculties. Whoever destroys His work wages war against God's Creation and God's Will.
-- Adolph Hitler, creationist
Source: Book 2, Chapter 10, Mein Kampf by Adolf Hitler.
Discussed at Adolf Hitler's Religion.
95 posted on 02/09/2004 8:46:46 AM PST by PatrickHenry
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To: js1138
If that's so, then HOW did each separate specie we see today ever get to be so robust and strong, if they TOO started with just a few individuals??

What makes you think this is part of evolutionary theory?

 
Well, if it ain't, then each species started with a LARGE group of individuals.
 
It HAS to be either one or the other: pick one.

96 posted on 02/09/2004 9:26:02 AM PST by Elsie (When the avalanche starts... it's too late for the pebbles to vote....)
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To: PatrickHenry
Hitler was a creationist:

Extremely doubtful. What is not in doubt, however, is how successful he was at duping people (apparently he hasn't lost his touch) and lying.

=========================================

"To whom should propaganda be addressed? … It must be addressed always and exclusively to the masses… The function of propaganda does not lie in the scientific training of the individual, but in calling the masses' attention to certain facts, processes, necessities, etc., whose significance is thus for the first time placed within their field of vision. The whole art consists in doing this so skilfully that everyone will be convinced that the fact is real, the process necessary, the necessity correct, etc. But since propaganda is not and cannot be the necessity in itself … its effect for the most part must be aimed at the emotions and only to a very limited degree at the so-called intellect… it's soundness is to be measured exclusively by its effective result".

(Main Kampf, Vol 1, Ch 6 and Ch 12)

========================================

"I think I can assure you that there is no one in Germany who will not with all his heart approve any honest attempt at an improvement of relations between Germany and France. My own feelings force me to take the same attitude... The German people has the solemn intention of living in peace and friendship with all civilized nations and powers... And I regard the maintenance of peace in Europe as especially desirable and at the same time secured, if France and Germany, on the basis of equal sharing of natural human rights, arrive at a real inner understanding... The young Germany, that is led by me and that finds its expression in the National Socialist Movement, has only the most heartfelt desire for an understanding with other European nations."

=========================================

From here:

Adolf Hitler - Christian, Atheist, or Neither?

Here's more:

"Christianity is an invention of sick brains,"

~Adolf Hitler, 13 December 1941.

Was Hitler a Christian?

Sorry to disappoint.

97 posted on 02/09/2004 9:30:09 AM PST by Michael_Michaelangelo
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To: Elsie
The second is closer to the truth. Evolution describes change in the frequency and distribution of genes. Species are strong varieties. Many species are genetically capable of interbreeding, even though geography or superficial differences like coloration or song prevent interbreeding in the wild.
98 posted on 02/09/2004 9:30:51 AM PST by js1138
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To: bondserv
a majority of the groundbreaking inspirational discoveries have been consistantly made by Creationists.

And what great philosopher compiled THAT statistic?

Idiotes?

99 posted on 02/09/2004 9:41:06 AM PST by _Jim ( <--- Ann C. and Rush L. speak on gutless Liberals (RealAudio files))
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To: js1138
Then just from WHERE did this large group come?

ALL things procede from just two (unless you're a cell or hermophodite worm) parents. Separate genders are supposedly an Evolutionary step up from the original Do-it-yourself-kit.
100 posted on 02/09/2004 9:54:32 AM PST by Elsie (When the avalanche starts... it's too late for the pebbles to vote....)
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