Macs A Key Part Of Controversial Anti-Bush Ads (some mac users all tingly about socialism)

The Mac Observer ^ | February 4th, 2004 | Brad Gibson

[discostu]

That's not what I asked. I asked if you can boot from a USB key. I can boot from a CD but why would I want to? The stuff I need fits on a floppy, the floppy is cheaper than a CDR and more durable than the CDR.

But I don't need a USB key. Floppies are cheaper. And on the rare occasion when I have to move something by floppy that doesn't fit on a floppy (which would be like twice, things I'd much rather have shot over a network but for various reasons couldn't) zip and spandisk, make it a self extracting exe and WALLA, don't even need zip on the other end.

I'm not saying USB keys are bad. Just that I don't need them, they wouldn't accomplish what I use floppies to accomplish. If they were floppy drive cost I wouldn't be upset about them being included in a PC I bought, I might find it useful sometime.

[antiRepublicrat]

Just that I don't need them, they wouldn't accomplish what I use floppies to accomplish. If they were floppy drive cost I wouldn't be upset about them being included in a PC I bought, I might find it useful sometime.

That's you, and if a particular legacy piece of equipment fits your needs, then go ahead and keep using it, but don't complain when the rest of the world abandons it.

[discostu]

It's NOT obsolete technology. That's what I'm telling you. 5 1/4 were obsolete when they started, technology begging to be replaced from day one. Same with ISA slots. 3 1/2 inch durable floppies are not obsolete technology. They're cheap, reliable and still get the job done every day in this country. Just becuase you don't use them doesn't mean they're obsolete, I don't use automatics but they're still useful to people that prefer being passengers in their own cars.

[discostu]

The rest of the world HASN'T abandoned floppies. That's YOUR line and it's just plain WRONG. They're still standard equipment on desktop systems, and they should be, and that's not ending any time soon. Just because Apple was stupid enough to walk away from the at least a decade early (probably more) doesn't mean they're abandoned, it's just another reason why Macs have never and probably will never peak above 7% of the market.

[Swordmaker]

didn't say they aren't a business Hal, I said their "free" video editing software isn't free.

If that is the case, how come Mac owners, who DIDN'T get the free software because it wasn't released when they bought their computers, can download if for free from the Apple website to add to their machines???

PS, Discostu, your ignorance is showing again. IBM makes the PowerPC G5 chips, not Motorola.

[dennisw]

I use floppies all the time on my windows machines.

[Swordmaker]

If as many people ran Macs as they do Windows, Mac viruses would be as common as dirt. Viruses for Macs pop up every once in a while but tend not to spread much because there are just so few Macs around.

Untrue. In three years there have been NO OS-X virus found.

It is not just that the Macs have a smaller footprint in the computer world, it is that they are an order of magnatude more secure than a Windows box. According to some very high powered computer security experts, the difficulty of writing a virus for OS-X is a 10 on a scale of 1-10 while writing a Windows virus is a 1 or a 2. Executable code cannot be installed on a Macintosh OS-X box without the explicit permission of the Administrator of the computer. To even impact the core operating system, a user would have to have Root level access. No Macintosh user operates in Root... 99% of Windows users operate in the equivalent of Root, allowing any program running on the computer to modify system files.

[Swordmaker]

He dropped serial and parallel support?! Didn't know about that. It'll be added to my "what was Steve thinking" list. Yeah serial and parallel suck but they're still out there and serve a purpose (like running printers that haven't died yet).

More ignorance, Discostu. The Macintosh had one button mouses before the PC had any mouse at all... so he could not "opt away from the two button mouse." I am a Mac user. I have a three button, wheel USB track ball. Works great... doesn't even need a driver. Just plug it in and it works.

"Booting from a floppy"?? What are you running? DOS?

The days of needing to boot from a floppy are as gone as the Horse and Buggy.

Those people who need to use a floppy to move data around are moving extremely TINY files... most files these days are much larger and a floppy disc would not even begin to hold them. However, if you are working in an environment that requires moving files from one computer to another, they can purchase as many USB floppy drives as they need... or they can use a USB thumb drive... or they can use AirPort... or they can use Ethernet... or they can use a CD-RW. Why should all users be forced to buy a floppy that will never be used? Because YOU want to move a file? Right. Sure.

The Mac left the floppy disc behind because it was old technology... and opted for the new.

Another sign of your ignorance of the Mac and Apple platforms is the idea that Apple ever used a parallel interface "to drop." Macs primarily used either serial or SCSI interfaces... and Apple left them behind in favor of more modern, faster interfaces. IF a user needs a legacy ADB, SCSI, or serial port... or even a Parallel port, USB or Firewire devices provide backwards compatibility for a reasonable price. Most Mac users will not need them.

You continue to show that you do not know anything at all about the history of computer, the Macintosh, or even technology.

[HAL9000]

5 1/4 were obsolete when they started, technology begging to be replaced from day one.

I don't think so. I got my first 5 1/4" floppy drive in 1978 and that format was the state-of-the-art for several years. There just wasn't a suitable alternative available until the durable floppy was introduced in 1984 on the Macintosh.

(Prior to all of that, we used 8" floppies on IBM mainframes. It was certainly better than using Hollerith cards - although we could do some neat tricks with the cards.)

Nowadays, it's faster just to do a network file transfer or burn a CD-R, and it's a hassle to find a blank floppy. Perhaps floppys are still popular in Haiti and the Congo, but I don't miss them.

[ampat]

Mac's don't produce ads, people do (you know, guns don't kill....).

[Swordmaker]

There was no print buffer in System 7, at least not one that would be remotely useful. I remember very well working in the library on their Macs going to print my first large document and WHAMMO a system modal dialog box pops and the computer can do NOTHING until there's less than a page and a half left to print, and given that pathetically slow Applewrite printer that was a loooooong time coming. Maybe there was some hidden option but that's just proof of poor design, ,p> More ignorance. in the early 19990s I was managing a network of Macintosh's running various OS from 7-7.6... all of them had print buffers that handled large files quite nicely. Several publishing houses and newspapers that were entirely Macintosh would be very surprised by your printing problem... and many print shops would as well. Just because YOU don't know about them does not mean they weren't there.

It is obvious that at home you use a PC. Why should every Macintosh user pay $15 for a floppy drive that they will NEVER NEED, because YOU think it a "nice safety net?" And at the time the Applewriter printer was being sold, ALL dot matrix printers were pretty slow. How about trying the Applelaser for speed at that time... and it was the first (and for several years) the only consumer priced laser printer.

[Swordmaker]

If this contest had been run 12 years ago against Bush I, half the entries probably would have been done on a Video Toaster. Somehow I don't think that would have made Newtek or the Amiga inherently socialist, in and of themselves....

Have one... its out in the garage. The Video Toaster was a real revolution in TV work. Several major TV programs did their FX using the Amiga/Toaster combo. At $1595 for the Toaster card, you couldn't touch anything else doing the same kind of work, for less than $50k.

[Swordmaker]

They're cheap, reliable and still get the job done every day in this country. Just becuase you don't use them doesn't mean they're obsolete, I don't use automatics but they're still useful to people that prefer being passengers in their own cars.

I have quite a number of business clients. NOT ONE of them even has a floppy disk on the premises.

Have you priced floppies lately? I have because a student needed some to carry her work to an obsolete school computer. Office Depot was selling a box of 10 generic discs for $4.95. I saw a tower of Sony 30 CD-Rs just yesterday for $9.95. Let's see. The per disc price of the floppy which holds a whopping 1.44Meg is 49¢, the per disk price of 740 Meg CDRs is 33¢. The per megabyte price of the floppy is 34¢, the per MB price of the CDR is .04¢ (four one-hundreths of a cent). GEE, I think the CDR wins the cost contest.

[general_re]

How about trying the Applelaser for speed at that time... and it was the first (and for several years) the only consumer priced laser printer.

Errr, what? That doesn't jibe with my memory at all. Apple Laserwriter price in 1985: around $7000. HP Laserjet price (1984): about $3500. Both were certainly cheaper than the $30,000 lasers that IBM was selling, but we're still a bit outside the consumer level, for the most part.

Actually, the first sub-$1000 laser didn't come around until the HP Laserjet IIp in 1990 or so. Looking back, it's kinda hard to believe you can get them for $200 these days. ;)

[VillageDamien]

PCs can and do work stabily, at least as stable as Mac.

That's not true. In fact, it's simply, scientifically, provably, not true. Ask anyone with a CS degree who has taken more than three classes on operating systems design and programming. Since I have taken seven, I feel fairly qualified. The current implementation of Mac OS X (10.3.2) is based on the Mach kernel which was implemented at CMU. Due to the design of the kernel (which is a semester itself) and how it is in place with surrounding operating system (which is based on a fusion of FreeBSD and Linux sources, but weighing very heavily on the FreeBSD side-- indeed, Apple has hired the former head of the FreeBSD project- Jordan... Jordan... his last name slips my mind) insures that no single or combination of user executable programs can crash the kernel. Low level kernels are external to the kernel, so there's no problems there.

So, while you speak from some sort of folksy perspective, I look at the issue from fourty years of UNIX development and research and see which side is correct.

I've driven both a Pinto and a Taurus, actually two Taurus. I'd take the pinto every time. Better stearing better gas milage and more comfy seats. Just don't get rear-ended.

That analogy is so apt for Windows, that I might just use it- since when you run Windows, you're in effect, painting a bullseye on your rear-end and begging every virus/worm writer in the world to smack you... on your ass.

[antiRepublicrat]

That's YOUR line and it's just plain WRONG. They're still standard equipment on desktop systems,

Parallel and serial ports are standard too, but they're not used very much anymore, except in more specialized circumstances, such as is your heavy use of floppies. Eventually someone has to have the balls to move on and cut direct legacy support, and that leftover minority can buy adapters. Dell already started phasing out floppies last year.

[antiRepublicrat]

It's NOT obsolete technology.

All computer technology is obsolete; it's just a matter of how much time it has before it is taken over by the next technology. 5 /14 soft-sectored drives were great for their day, but were surpassed by the 3 1/2, which has been surpassed by several technologies. ISA slots were also great, but were surpassed by PCI. PCI has already been surpassed by AGP for graphics and PCI-X for high-bandwidth needs. Parallel ATA, another technology Apple abandoned, is also going the way of the dodo with the introduction of SATA, which Apple switched to, as usual ahead of the PC manufacturers.

BTW, I've handled literally tens of thousands of 3 1/2" disks in my life, and they are not all that reliable. But if they fit your needs, go ahead and use them. Just don't expect the computer manufacturers do keep directly supporting it.

I don't use automatics but they're still useful to people that prefer being passengers in their own cars.

At least there we agree, but it's a different subject. There are other reasons to get them though, fuel efficiency, disability and others. But most people probably get them because they're just too lazy or want to ride instead of drive.

[discostu]

It's called keeping the client hooked, trusting that eventually the person will upgrade and will pay for it.

I don't care who makes the chip. Stop being insulting.

[discostu]

Thanks. I knew I wasn't alone because every QA engineer in every company I know of uses them (can't live without disk images, floppies are the best way to get to disk images) but it's nice to have somebody else testify.

[discostu]

It's funny that the insulting guy would be so wrong. Sorry charley I had an IBM mouse that pre-dated Macs, and it had two buttons.

When I boot from the floppy I run the Win98 DOS. Need it to swap disk images. Inside the software industry floppies are an absolute necessity, allows us to serious cut down on the number of machines we have for testing purposes and configuration time. Outside the software industry they might not be necessary, but that's OK we still buy a lot of computers.

More insults from you. Your need to use them shows you lack all confidence in yourself. Stop the insults.