The conservatives are outraged -- about Bush (CPAC ArticleBarf Alert)

Salon ^ | 27 Jan 04 | Michelle Goldberg

[Warrior Nurse]

The conservatives are outraged -- about Bush At the annual Conservative Political Action Conference, foot soldiers of the right rail against the big-government, free-spending ways of the White House By Michelle Goldberg

[Howlin]

Well, I can't tell you how honored I feel! Really!

Because you refer to anyone who disagrees with the President as a "right winger".......language of the left.

You really are a dimwit, aren't you?

I disagree with the president.

The people I referred to are the ones who are going to hand this country over to the liberals because they don't like some of the things that Bush has done.

But you're right; perhaps I should use another phrase to define them instead of "right wing."

How about EXTREME RIGHT WING WHACKOS?

Does that suit you?

[He Rides A White Horse]

Some posters here seem to think immigration as it is conducted today is a small issue. It's not.

I want all of those sneering at the rest of us to remember what position they took on this issue.

Our elected officials and those who support these policies are the ones guaranteeing Hillary Rodham Clinton for President in 2008. They are giving her more voters than she'll ever need to win, and we're supposed to cheer this piece of national suicide. Sorry, my throat's a little sore at the moment.

Hope you all love living under Hillary, your new Mexican ruling class, and best of all Hillary with the Patriot Act at her disposal. Wonder who is going to be named a terrorist organization first? Should be interesting.

I think this amnesty, this coddling of illegals, this invasion is going to have far reaching consequences. All those who supported it, remember what you did when the time comes.

Strategic planning indeed; I'm sure Hillary will be most grateful for all the help she received.

From you.

[He Rides A White Horse]

You really are a dimwit, aren't you?

We'll see who the dimwit is Howlin. It won't be me.

[Howlin]

I'm the one voting to keep the country in the hands of the conservatives so we can do something that IS possible, not sit around and make up wild crazy schemes that would never work.

You may not agree with what Bush has proposed, fine.

But it's more than YOU have proposed, short of mine the borders, I presume.

[TigersEye]

"A lot of people here don't care if Bush wins or not," said Rick Shaftan, ...

That about says it.

[section9]

What a straw man. No one here said that immigration was a small issue. They understand that it is an important issue. The difference is that Bush has proposed something while Democrats have run to his left and insisted on amnesty while the nativist Right has jumped at the first sign of the Mexican gardener.

It is all well and good to be concerned about immigration. It is foolish in the extreme to posit the existence of a new "Mexican ruling class". That's just Blak Helikopterz stuff.

As to Hillary, I will agree with Chris Matthews: as long as people can vote in private, Hillary will never be President.

Be Seeing You,

Chris

[He Rides A White Horse]

I'm the one voting to keep the country in the hands of the conservatives so we can do something that IS possible, not sit around and make up wild crazy schemes that would never work.

I think the wild and crazy scheme is granting an amnesty to millions of people who have no regard for our laws.

But it's more than YOU have proposed, short of mine the borders, I presume.

I like the idea of a wall however.

[He Rides A White Horse]

Strawman?....You say: And what is the answer of the Right when the times call for Churchillian resolution?

They bitch and moan about the f8%#ing Farm Bill.

Or......

How freaking pathetic. Next thing I know the Right will declare jihad over the fact that the Bureau of Weights and Measures is overfunded.

You are obviously showing where you think immigration ranks as a national problem.

The difference is that Bush has proposed something while Democrats have run to his left and insisted on amnesty

It is an amnesty that Bush has proposed.

while the nativist Right has jumped at the first sign of the Mexican gardener.

The Mexican gardener?...........or did you mean to say 15 million foreign nationals thumbing their nose at American law, forging documents, committing crimes, etc?

It is foolish in the extreme to posit the existence of a new "Mexican ruling class". That's just Blak Helikopterz stuff.

Never saw a black helicopter; however, I do see a major disaster in the making.

Hillary will never be President.

Hillary will be President in 2008, and this will give them all the voters she'll need.

Only a fool thinks they are going to register Republican. Although I suppose you can engage in a Great American Giveaway to win their affections. More programs, more entitlements, whatever it takes.

Like I said before, we'll see. Bookmarking page.

Be Seeing You,

....under Hillary in 2008.

[Southack]

"I think the wild and crazy scheme is granting an amnesty to millions of people who have no regard for our laws."

You are misusing the word "amnesty."

You might as well label every plea bargain between every local prosecutor and crook as "amnesty" as to abuse the word so with regard to Bush's illegal alien registration plan.

Bush's plan, while much maligned, would give us something that we *don't* have today: 8 million Registered illegals. Illegal aliens are already here, but they aren't currently registered with our INS and law enforcement.

Institutionally, we don't know where all 8 million of them are living and working.

You don't gain such institutional government knowlege cheaply, either. Bush had to give something up to entice illegals to Register themselves. Some posters on this forum even claim that Bush hasn't given up enough to entice very many illegals to register (an interesting complaint, really). "They'll just stay unregistered and illegal," some claim.

Once registered, however, illegals can be dealt with en masse. On the other hand, trying to come up with the resources required to locate, track down, and detain 8 million crooks who are all anonymous and who are all on the lam (as are these illegal aliens) would be quite an undertaking (and rounding them up into internment camps would make earlier European WW2 concentration camp efforts seem small in both contrast and in terms of bad publicity).

But with Bush's plea bargain, illegals can pay their fine, register, and then they get a blue card and the right to work here for 3 years. It's a deal. Prosecutors knock these deals out every day. Of course, they have to deport themselves at the end of that period in order to apply for more time here...and Bush's plan gives them the incentive to do that, as well as establishes a Registry that will aid our law enforcement in rounding up those who don't comply.

That's hardly "amnesty." Sure, there might be better ways to deal with illegals, but this plan isn't all bad...and it isn't a completely free amnesty.

It's a plea bargain, and it gives us something (e.g. a Registry) that we need for Homeland Security...all without spending tons and tons more of our precious tax dollars.

Of course, we *could* go door to door with our military in efforts that would make the SS of 1944 Germany look civilized, and we could round up all 8 million illegals who are already here...but I urge you to consider not only the financial cost, but also the bad publicity of setting up temporary internment camps for housing 8 million illegal aliens (compared to say, 6 million WW2 Jews in Europe).

In that light perhaps you can began to see that President Bush's plan to encourage 8 million illegal aliens to accept his plea bargain is a rather good deal for us all.

The alternative is to continue the current status quo of having them all unregistered, a position that I find difficult to support, much less pay for. Ditto for the publicity of rounding that many people up by force. The scope of this problem is so large that it warrants a nationwide plea bargain in order to make it manageable.

[He Rides A White Horse]

You might as well label every plea bargain between every local prosecutor and crook as "amnesty" as to abuse the word so with regard to Bush's illegal alien registration plan.

I would if it entailed the law telling a criminal, "you did the crime, you'll do no time, and we'll even drop you off in front of the bank you robbed last month."

Bush's plan, while much maligned

Much maligned.....and I thought it was only the 'black helicopter crowd that felt that way.

Illegal aliens are already here, but they aren't currently registered with our INS and law enforcement.

INS and law enforcement?.........we'll go with the eight million you cite.......what a bang up, stellar job they have done so far. You'll have to forgive me, but INS and enforcement is part of the problem.

On the other hand, trying to come up with the resources required to locate, track down, and detain 8 million crooks who are all anonymous and who are all on the lam (as are these illegal aliens) would be quite an undertaking (and rounding them up into internment camps would make earlier European WW2 concentration camp efforts seem small in both contrast and in terms of bad publicity).

Well, we won't be implementing some "final solution" for illegal immigrants.

Bad publicity?......oh, right. The United Nations and France won't like us defending our borders. God forbid that happens.

But with Bush's plea bargain, illegals can pay their fine, register, and then they get a blue card and the right to work here for 3 years. It's a deal.

It's deal alright. For Vincente Fox and Hillary Clinton. Yeah, they'll go home after 3 years just like they do now. (there's no place like home, there's no place like home)

Of course, they have to deport themselves at the end of that period in order to apply for more time here...and Bush's plan gives them the incentive to do that

Yeah, sure Southack...if they don't go, why, we'll impose another amnesty on them.

Sure, there might be better ways to deal with illegals, but this plan isn't all bad...

No, it's not all bad..........it's downright terrible.

Of course, we *could* go door to door with our military in efforts that would make the SS of 1944 Germany look civilized, and we could round up all 8 million illegals who are already here...but I urge you to consider not only the financial cost, but also the bad publicity of setting up temporary internment camps for housing 8 million illegal aliens (compared to say, 6 million WW2 Jews in Europe).

Again, quit the Nazi Germany references. We're not talking about liquidating them....and I don't care about "publicity". Publicity as far as who is concerned Southack?

In that light perhaps you can began to see that President Bush's plan to encourage 8 million illegal aliens to accept his plea bargain is a rather good deal for us all.

No thanks.

The alternative is to continue the current status quo of having them all unregistered, a position that I find difficult to support, much less pay for.

The alternative is to defend our sovereign borders, like every other country on the face of the earth is willing to do.

[Southack]

"The alternative is to defend our sovereign borders, like every other country on the face of the earth is willing to do."

I'm all for it, but it hasn't been very effective to date. Perhaps some new ideas are warranted...such as REGISTERING all of the illegals.

You seem to be against registering them all. Why is that?

[Southack]

"Again, quit the Nazi Germany references. We're not talking about liquidating them....and I don't care about "publicity". Publicity as far as who is concerned Southack?"

I'm not talking about liquidating illegals, either.

But if you round up 8 million illegals by force of arms, you *are* going to draw comparisons, at least in terms of scope, to the NAZI efforts of WW2 that rounded up 6 million Jews. That's simply the closest (in size and scope) mass roundup, and comparisons are inevitable, especially by the liberal news media here and abroad.

[Southack]

"INS and law enforcement?.........we'll go with the eight million you cite.......what a bang up, stellar job they have done so far. You'll have to forgive me, but INS and enforcement is part of the problem."

Indeed. Perhaps that suggests that the brute force roundup tactics of the past aren't the ideal solution.

Who knows, maybe what we need is a *new* idea, such as somehow enticing most or all of the 8 million illegals who are already here to Register themselves voluntarily.

You know, cut them a deal that they won't refuse...a plea bargain, for instance...

[He Rides A White Horse]

especially by the liberal news media here and abroad.

They call us Nazis anyway, no matter what we do. So I personally don't care about that.

[section9]

Oh, I see you need a good Fisking!

Strawman?....You say: And what is the answer of the Right when the times call for Churchillian resolution?

You know as well as I do that what I say is true. You simply don't want to admit that your priorities are seriously out of whack. I have heard more Conservatives on this board go on about No Child or the Farm Bill than I care to remember. Then they swear that they won't vote for Bush ever again. In the middle of a freaking war, with the highest of stakes.

There is no excuse for that intellectual asshattery. None.

Here's a choice one...

How freaking pathetic. Next thing I know the Right will declare jihad over the fact that the Bureau of Weights and Measures is overfunded.

You are obviously showing where you think immigration ranks as a national problem.

Horsesh#t. Saying so does not make it so. You cannot draw that conclusion from that statement, so you created a logical fallacy to suit your own ends. The fact that the fallacy doesn't appear to have been apparent to you speaks volumes. Immigration is important. It is not to be left to the nativist crowd, who have lost every election they've tried to contest in the history of this country.

The difference is that Bush has proposed something while Democrats have run to his left and insisted on amnesty

It is an amnesty that Bush has proposed.

No, it is not. It is a guestworker program with the possibility of citizenship for those who want to apply. Citizenship is supposed to be a good thing. No one else is offering any alternatives, not even ol' Round Up The Wetbacks Tancredo.

This is the part I love the most:

The Mexican gardener?...........or did you mean to say 15 million foreign nationals thumbing their nose at American law, forging documents, committing crimes, etc?

Jesus, are you saying that all the illegals are forging documents, robbing banks, rustling women and raping cattle? Or just the ones in your neighborhood.

Try painting with a smaller broad brush next time, okay?

Meanwhile, back at Conspiracy Central:

Never saw a black helicopter; however, I do see a major disaster in the making.

Yeah, all those spanish speaking brown people who just happen to be Christian.

As opposed to Muslim or jihadi.

BTW, I'm still looking for that Mexican ruling class you talked about. I want to lobby for all the taco concessions.

And now, the piece de resistance.

Hillary will be President in 2008, and this will give them all the voters she'll need.

Only a fool thinks they are going to register Republican. Although I suppose you can engage in a Great American Giveaway to win their affections. More programs, more entitlements, whatever it takes.

Like I said before, we'll see. Bookmarking page.

Hillary is always a good indicator of how pessimistic some conservatives are. They are always willing to roll over and die at the very mention of her name. You're not even willing to fight for the Hispanic vote, even though it is a socially conservative voting bloc.

You think you can fight Hillary and her crowd by joining the Constitution Party or the Weed Inhalers over at the Libertarian table? Go right ahead. Neither of those parties are worth a continental damn, nor could they win an election for dogcatcher in a town run by cats.

Pathetic. You people aren't even willing to fight. Why should other conservatives listen to you folks if all you do is pick up your ball and go home? You're not even getting in the game.

Be Seeing You,

Chris

[He Rides A White Horse]

I'm all for it, but it hasn't been very effective to date. Perhaps some new ideas are warranted...such as REGISTERING all of the illegals.

It hasn't been effective, because people are worried about being called Nazis for enforcing the sovereignty of America.

.....and then when the calls come to grant them fast track citizenship (and you know who will be doing that), we'll cave because of the dreaded "Nazi" label.

That's alright, because I would rather be called a Nazi than live under a Stalinist with the Patriot Act at her disposal.

[Southack]

"They call us Nazis anyway, no matter what we do. So I personally don't care about that."

And you have that luxury. You don't have to get 50+% of the vote to get elected to the Quarterback position of your armchair.

On the other hand, few politicians would survive the publicity bloodbath of watching countless news reporters show footage of 8 million illegals rounded up into temporary internment camps or marched home in ten mile long columns along our highways.

SCOPE. The problem with using such brute force round up tactics is the sheer scope. Round up 8 million, i.e. 2 million more than the NAZIs rounded up in WW2, and you are going to get such bad publicity that Adolph Eichman would look like a softy in contrast.

And *elected* politicians in the real world can't survive such bad press.

In the meantime, enjoy your unelected position upon the top of your armchair...

[He Rides A White Horse]

You know as well as I do that what I say is true. You simply don't want to admit that your priorities are seriously out of whack.

I know what my priorities are. They go something like America first.

I have a hint for you:

Major Kusanagi won't be coming to the rescue when it all goes down.

I have heard more Conservatives on this board go on about No Child or the Farm Bill than I care to remember. Then they swear that they won't vote for Bush ever again. In the middle of a freaking war, with the highest of stakes.

There is no excuse for that intellectual asshattery. None.

...I'm beginning to hear more than I care to about that "great [MURDEROUS] religion", Islam. There is no excuse for that intellectual asshattery. Especially in these times.

Horsesh#t. Saying so does not make it so. You cannot draw that conclusion from that statement, so you created a logical fallacy to suit your own ends.

It's obvious what you were trying to accomplish to anyone reading this thread, so don't even try to run it.

No, it is not. It is a guestworker program with the possibility of citizenship for those who want to apply.

No, it's a amnesty program with a guaranteed citizenship, jump ahead of all people who tried to do it legally. It seems all those who appear to respect our laws are about to be, as you would put it, f**ked.

Jesus, are you saying that all the illegals are forging documents, robbing banks, rustling women and raping cattle? Or just the ones in your neighborhood.

They are here illegally, what part of "lawbreaking " don't you get. As to the examples, why don't you ask some of our friends in California, Arizona, Nevada, etc. what they think?

Yeah, all those spanish speaking brown people who just happen to be Christian.

So is Jesse Jackson.

BTW, I'm still looking for that Mexican ruling class you talked about. I want to lobby for all the taco concessions.

Uh, maybe you've been sleeping for the last thirty years Rip Van Winkle, but see terms such as "political correctness", and "hate crime". You are already a second class citizen, Sleepy.

Hillary is always a good indicator of how pessimistic some conservatives are. They are always willing to roll over and die at the very mention of her name. You're not even willing to fight for the Hispanic vote, even though it is a socially conservative voting bloc.

Hillary and Bill spend the better part of a decade trying to import as many foreigners as they could, and why do you think that was? Because they would pull the "R" lever at the voting booth?

...and now, we stand on the brink of helping them with this plan, and you want me to cheer?

You think you can fight Hillary and her crowd by joining the Constitution Party or the Weed Inhalers over at the Libertarian table? Go right ahead. Neither of those parties are worth a continental damn, nor could they win an election for dogcatcher in a town run by cats.

I'll consider a new, as of yet unformed party. In other words, I'll probably stay home.

Pathetic. You people aren't even willing to fight.

Coming from a guy who doesn't even want to enforce his own country's borders. A guy who is surrendering because it seems politically expedient.

[He Rides A White Horse]

I'll consider a new, as of yet unformed party. In other words, I'll probably stay home.

I'll anticipate your response in advance. Don't worry, you'll have your 8 million Mexican voters dying to pull that "R" lever in 2008. Good luck.

You're going to need it.

[Southack]

You've managed to avoid answering my direct question to you, but I will repeat it again to give you another chance.

Do you *favor* or *oppose* Registering illegal aliens with our federal government?