So you think George W. Bush is not a conservative?

SOTU transcript ^ | 1/22/04

[Protagoras]

I thought you were referring to the desire for national security as shrill and goofy.

You thought wrong. What would lead you to think that after that shrill and goofy statement was singled out is anyone's guess.

[My2Cents]

(I hope the sheer volume of comments on this thread gets the attention of the FR Overlords. Personally, I think they should carefully read the full thread, and come to the conclusion that the open-ended and unreasonable bashing of this President needs to be reigned in. JimRob has made it clear that he supports Bush, even though some of Bush's policies have made that support difficult at times. I support FR because it is run by principled AND pragmatic people. To continue to allow the kind of fanatical disruption we've been seeing on FR makes no sense if the goal is to get Bush re-elected.)

[ravingnutter]

The most obvious is CAPPS II, the program that demands your name, SSAN, address when you buy an airline ticket - so they can check about 14 databases, including your credit rating.

Hmmm...from the DHS website:

CAPPS II will authenticate the identity of passengers by checking the passenger name record - including full name, home address, telephone number and date of birth - against commercial databases. In addition, a risk assessment will be done by checking passenger names against government databases.

No SS # required.

Bank and medical records will not be used, nor will information regarding an individual's creditworthiness.

Bank/Credit records will not be used.

CAPPS II Fact Sheet

Have you bought a money order for $3K or more, if so - it was reported to the Feds.

The limit is $10,000 not $3,000:

A financial institution and any “nonfinancial trade or business” must file a report concerning a transaction (or series of related transactions) in excess of $10,000 or more in currency.

Anti-Money Laundering and Terrorist Financing This intrusiveness has nothing to do with preventing terrorism.

Oh really now...you didn't type this with a straight face did you?

[Sabertooth]

I wrote that it goes back AT LEAST to the Eisenhower administration before I'd had a chance to research its origins. The first form of guest-worker program began in the early 1940's. See my post #51.

That's not the problem with your Eisenhower reference. It's the implication that deporting 1.4 million Illegals in the 1950s is somehow a precedent for rewarding as many as 8 to 12 million of them with legalization under President Bush.

I know that you have a principled opposition to the president's proposal; in fact, that illegal immigration appears to be an overriding issue for you, judging by your posts during the recall. I respect your point of view and your posts, because they are usually well stated and rarely nasty. Unless I missed a post where you said otherwise, I also respect the fact that you still intend to vote for President Bush despite your vigorous opposition on this issue.

I intend to vote for President Bush, barring the actual enactment of his Illegal Alien "not an Amnesty" Amnesty. I think it won't be enacted, but I want to make certain that it's defeated so soundly as to make Amnesty a third rail for politicians in the future.where the fabric of American civilization is threatened: the War on Terror, the Constitutional Marriage Amendment, the dissolution of our borders and sovereignty. free speech, and the right to keep and bear arms.

The President is strong on the WoT, getting stronger on CMA, weak on sovereignty, weak on free speech as a result of CFR, and an unkown on the Second Amendment.

I take every one of your posts seriously and never assume disingenuousness on your part. I would thank you to display similar respect for my point of view. Everything I post reflects what I believe to be true.

I typically find your posts to be thoughtful, even when I disagree with them. Unfortunately, you were well wide of the mark with regard to the issue of Amnesty in the SOTU.

Legalization of Illegals is Amnesty for those Illegals. That's the truth.

The President is splitting hairs on Amnesty, and your highlighting of his hairsplitting while omitting what little substance of his proposal he brought to the SOTU is a serious overreach. Hence, my comment.

You started with a premise of using the SOTU to demonstrate conservatism on the part of President Bush. Many of your points were well taken, but you'd have been better off to omit his Amnesty remark altogether, rather than try and pass it off as something it wasn't, even if you've convinced yourself that wasn't what you were doing.

Lipstick doesn't make a pretty pig, just ugly cosmetology.

Claiming Eisenhower, who deported 1.4 million Illegals who were not made eligible for legalization as guest workers, as a precedent for the Bush "guest worker" Amnesty for 8 to 12 million Illegals, is disingenous.

[bray]

I don't know why the farmers in your area don't use machines. You could be right about them.

Oregon and Washington is the apple capital of the US. I think these farmers know what they're doing. They need cheap labor that can climb ladders and hand pick fruit. This need is repeated throughout the agriculture industry.

And yet many still do not wish to go the legal route to do it. We should just reward them.

What reward? A three year guest worker program? They can then APPLY for the legal way. You are kinda speaking both sides of the argument with that last statement. Fact is, farmers out in the west need millions of cheap laborers and Mexico is the source. The smart political way for W to handle this would have continued to ignore the issue.

Pray for W and The Truth

[Southack]

"But Bush has not been a fiscal conservative, which IS the most important quality of a true conservative."

Then you didn't understand my point.

Dean is fiscally conservative, yet Dean would never sign an abortion ban (Dean was a Planned Parenthood doctor, in fact). In contrast, Bush has already signed an abortion ban into law, a very conservative thing to do.

In other words, being frugal isn't the same thing as being conservative. That's why your litmus test fails. Your test says to vote for the most frugal spender.

That would get you pro-abortion Dean, a far cry from a true Conservative.

On the other hand, my abortion ban test would tell you to vote for Bush. That would get you someone who has already banned one form of abortion, killed the Kyoto Global Warming nonsense, withdrawn from the U.S. - CCCP ABM treaty restraints (so that we can defend our nation), cut taxes, cut regulations, and put conservative judges onto the federal roster.

Ergo, my litmus test is better than your litmus test (cue sounds of children screeching "nanny nanny boo boo" in the background).

And the reason for mentioning that one test is better than another is to help us avoid looking at the wrong things and/or the wrong candidates. Thus, this is important.

[EllaMinnow]

Anyone given this choice who would turn this nation and its security over to a Democrat is dangerous, and someone I consider my political enemy.

Thank you so much for posting what I've been thinking. They are as ridiculous in their Boo-Hoo "President Bush isn't pure enough for me" garbage as the DUmbest Deaniac to stumble into a meet-up.

I see plenty of "Anybody but Bush" in my neighborhood, I'm just sick of seeing it here.

[Redleg Duke]

Well, when you and your ilk elect the RAT candidate, I don't want to hear anything out of you complaining about the wave of socialism sweeping out of the White House.

[Wolfstar]

And an angel still rides in the whirlwind and directs this storm. (This is just a beginning.)

[Howlin]

My point is that Bush is more dangerous than a democrat.

Basically that's all anybody needs to read when trying to decide if you're worth replying to.

I pass.

[Howlin]

It depends on what the meaning of "pain" is.

[My2Cents]

That is by far the most pathetic attack I have seen to date.

Hey, I'm glad it struck home! As for most pathetic attacks, I suggest you go back and read some of your own comments.

[Bikers4Bush]

I'll get in line for my turn at you trying to kick my a$$.

[Doctor Stochastic]

A year from now, we're either going to have a Democrat in the White House, or we're going to have President Bush.

The real world does have a way of jumping up and biting one in the voting booth. The old term was Realpolitik. One can only strive for the best result possible, not the best possible result. (Of course, fringe elements may well be willing to accept losing an election to ensure that they maintain their purity of essence. The Left and Right both suffer from this mania.)

[DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet]

I see plenty of "Anybody but Bush" in my neighborhood, I'm just sick of seeing it here.

As am I. They're no better than Democrats.

[swarthyguy]

My two cents on the why of this amnesty.

Bring illegal dollars into the system for FICA payroll deductions for Social Security.

Second, unsaid, but a future privatisation of PEMEX, Mejico's state run oil monopoly.

[zook]

"This is "Free Republic" remember?"

Yep. It refers to keeping our republic free, not to freely allowing all kinds of harmful tripe to be posted. And anyone who thinks we'll be a freer republic if Bush is defeated is posting harmful tripe.

[Protagoras]

You will not be more likely to get that voting for a dem or a third party so what will you do?

Same as any sane person, refuse to vote for anyone who stands for those things.

I noticed you conceded those things by ignoring them.

BTW, YOU say I woun't be more likely, that isn't correct just because you said it.

[BureaucratusMaximus]

Anyone given this choice who would turn this nation and its security over to a Democrat is dangerous, and someone I consider my political enemy.

And what you really meant was:

"Anyone given this choice who would turn this nation and its security over to a Democrat to anyone other than GWB is dangerous, and someone I consider my political enemy."

So with that kind of logic, I'll expect to see your opus posted here shortly, as FR is a conservative forum, and GWB is not a conservative. Anyone who is not a conservative, or does not support a conservative is someone I consider my political enemy. Last time I checked, CentristRepublic.com was an available domain name, maybe you should start your own site so your "enemies" won't bully you anymore.

[Nanodik]

I pass.

I do the same when I am out of trump cards.