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"But Bush has not been a fiscal conservative, which IS the most important quality of a true conservative."

Then you didn't understand my point.

Dean is fiscally conservative, yet Dean would never sign an abortion ban (Dean was a Planned Parenthood doctor, in fact). In contrast, Bush has already signed an abortion ban into law, a very conservative thing to do.

In other words, being frugal isn't the same thing as being conservative. That's why your litmus test fails. Your test says to vote for the most frugal spender.

That would get you pro-abortion Dean, a far cry from a true Conservative.

On the other hand, my abortion ban test would tell you to vote for Bush. That would get you someone who has already banned one form of abortion, killed the Kyoto Global Warming nonsense, withdrawn from the U.S. - CCCP ABM treaty restraints (so that we can defend our nation), cut taxes, cut regulations, and put conservative judges onto the federal roster.

Ergo, my litmus test is better than your litmus test (cue sounds of children screeching "nanny nanny boo boo" in the background).

And the reason for mentioning that one test is better than another is to help us avoid looking at the wrong things and/or the wrong candidates. Thus, this is important.

On the other hand, my abortion ban test would tell you to vote for Bush. That would get you someone who has already banned one form of abortion, killed the Kyoto Global Warming nonsense, withdrawn from the U.S. - CCCP ABM treaty restraints (so that we can defend our nation), cut taxes, cut regulations, and put conservative judges onto the federal roster.

Even on these issues, it's a mixed bag. Bush signed onto the junk science conclustion that global warming is a reality so this creates a disconnect with his Kyoto stance; Abortion wasn't banned - p.b. abortion ban was killed the next day by the federal courts (and will be finally killed in USSC) and Mr. Bush doesn't appear to have any stomach for taking on the courts. Why doesn't he and the jellyfish in Congress sponsor a constitutional amendment banning abortion? Most of the country opposes abortion. Nothing to lose anyway! He seems to be afraid of offending liberals. His spokesman went along with that ABOMINATION of a decision that removed teh 10 commandment monument from the Alabama Courthouse, and as the other poster pointed out, Bush praised the pro-quota decision in Michigan.

Who is willing to FIGHT the courts? Who? Apparently not Mr. Bush. He did come out against the Mass. State court ruling on gay marriage, but I haven't seen him champion an amendment to save marriage. He spoke of it like a last resort in his speech - last resort? I'd say the TIME IS NOW to nip it in the bud. Does Mr. Bush think his threat of an amendment will scare the gay radicals and activist judges away from fully implementing gay marriage in America? You tell me - what is he thinking?

Dean is fiscally conservative

No, he had well-funded mandates due to a boom economy. He did not cut spending, he jacked it up. He, like Bush now, would not cut spending to compensate for the economic downturn. A real fiscal conservative would cut spending instead of spending money like a...well...like a nanny-state liberal.

being frugal isn't the same thing as being conservative.

Completely agree, well-funded mandate and all.

All the other stuff(Kyoto et al) is fine and proves Bush is not an idiot.

Finally, as far as abortion: I would rather vote for a pro-choice true fiscal conservative that will cut spending and big government programs than a anti-abortion big-spender.

Okay, finally for real, I'm not sure how I feel about the whole immigration plan. I have to wait and see how that plays out.