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FR Canteen ~ Alexander The Great: Conclusion ~ January 13, 2004
Alexander The Great of Macedon ^ | January 13, 2004 | LaDivaLoca

Posted on 01/13/2004 2:55:23 AM PST by LaDivaLoca

 
 
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ANCIENT WARFARE

Part III: Ancient Greek Military:
 

Conclusion: Alexander The Great

 

Consolidation of the empire

The empire was weakened by years of absence and rumors of his death, and it had not functioned altogether efficiently.  On Alexander's reappearance, many incompetents and scoundrels in high office had to be replaced by better men. In Carmania, in Persis, complaints from the provinces continued to reach him, as well as the news of disorders in Macedonia and Greece. Between 326 and 324 BC over a third of his governors (i.e. satraps) were replaced and six were executed, including the Persian satraps of Persis, Susiana, Carmania, and Paraetacene.  Three generals in Media, including Cleander, were accused of extortion and convoked to Carmania, where they were arrested, examined, and executed.

In spring 324 he was back in Susa, the Capital of Elam and administrative center of the Persian Empire; where Alexander held a banquet to celebrate the conquest of the Persian Empire. In promotion of his policy of fusing Macedonians and Persians into one master race, he and 80 of his officers took Persian wives; he married Darius' daughters Barsine (also called Stateira) and Hephaestion married her sister Drypetis; 10,000 of Macedonian soldiers who married native wives were given generous gifts. The filopersian policy brought increasing friction to Alexander's relations with the rest of Macedonians, who had no understanding for his new conception of the empire. His determination to incorporate Persians on equal terms in the army and the administration of the provinces was heavily criticized by Macedonians. This discontent was now disqualified by the arrival of 30,000 native youths who had received Macedonian military training and by the introduction of Orientals from Bactria, Sogdiana, Arachosia, and other parts of the empire into the Companion cavalry. Persian aristocracy had been accepted into the royal cavalry bodyguard. Peucestas, the new governor of Persis, gave this policy full support, but most Macedonians saw it as a danger to their own favored position. An actual mutiny of the Macedonians broke out at Opis (324 BC.) on the Tigris, when Alexander's decision to send home Macedonian veterans under Craterus was interpreted as a move toward transferring the seat of power to Asia. There was an open insurrection involving all but the royal bodyguard; but when Alexander discharged his whole army and enrolled Persians instead, the opposition deceased. An emotional scene of reconciliation was followed by a vast banquet with 9,000 guests to celebrate the ending of the misunderstanding and the partnership in government of Macedonians and Persians as partners in the empire. Ten thousand veterans were now sent back to Macedonia with gifts, and the crisis was eliminated.

In summer 324 Alexander attempted to solve another problem, that of the nomadic mercenaries, of whom there were thousands in Asia and Greece, many of them political exiles from their own cities. A decree brought by Nicanor to Europe and proclaimed at Olympia (September 324) required the Greek cities of the Greek League to receive back all exiles and their families (except the Thebans), a maneuver that indicated some modification of the oligarchic regimes maintained in the Greek cities by Alexander's governor Antipater. Alexander now planned to recall Antipater and replace him by Craterus; but he died before this could be done. In autumn 324 Hephaestion died in Ecbatana, and Alexander indulged in extravagant mourning for his best friend; he was given a royal funeral in Babylon with a pyre costing 10,000 talents. His post of chiliarch (grand vizier) was left unfilled. It was probably in connection with a general order sent out to the Greeks to honor Hephaestion as a hero that Alexander linked the demand that he himself should be accorded divine honors. For a long time his mind had dwelt on ideas of godhead. Alexander had on several occasions encouraged favorable comparison of his own accomplishments with those of Dionysus or Heracles.

In November of 324 Alexander carried out punitive expedition against the Cossaeans in the hills of Luristan. The following spring at Babylon he received complimentary embassies from the Libyans and from the Bruttians, Etruscans, and Lucanians of Italy; representatives of the cities of Greece who came to celebrate and confirm Alexander's divine status. Following up Nearchus' voyage, he had founded an Alexandria at the mouth of the Tigris and made plans to develop sea communications with India, for which an expedition along the Arabian coast was to be a preliminary one. He also appointed Heracleides to explore the Hyrcanian (Caspian) Sea.

The plans for the conquest of the western Mediterranean and the creation of a universal monarchy were mentioned by Diodorus. In his later years Alexander's aims have been directed toward exploration, in particular of Arabia and the Caspian. The exploration of the waterways round about the empire was Alexander's immediate concern, the discovery of the presumed connection of the Caspian with the Northern Ocean, the opening of a maritime route from Babylon to Egypt round Arabia. The latter enterprise Alexander designed to conduct in person; under his supervision an immense fleet was prepared in Babylon, a great basin dug out to contain 1000 ships, and the water- communications of Babylonia taken in hand. Innovations were carried out in the tactical system of the army which were to modify considerably the methods of future battle-fields.

 

Mysterious Death and Apotheosis

Suddenly, in Babylon, while busy with plans to improve the irrigation of the Euphrates and to settle the Arabic coast of the Persian Gulf; Alexander was taken sick after a splendid entertainment in honor of Nearchus departure for Arabia (it was also commemoration of the death of Heracles). There he drank much unmixed wine, and finally, filling a huge beaker, downed it at a gulp. The pain increased and no one was able to do anything helpful and Alexander continued in acute suffering.

His friends asked: "To whom do you leave the kingdom?" and he replied: "To the best (the strongest)." These were his last words.

Predicca has received from the king before he died his ring, as the symbol of his regency.
On the sundown of 10th of June, after the ten day fever, in the Palace of Nabukodonossor, Alexander died. Historians disagree about the date of Alexander's death
(Aristobulus (30th or 29th) last day (triakàdi) of Daesius; Plutarch 28th of Daesius; Daesius was the eighth Macedonian month). While 5th-century Armenian version of the Historia Alexandri Magni, The Alexander Romances reports 4 th of Pharmouthi as the day of the death, which corresponds to 13th of June; but according to contemporary Babylonian Astronomic Diary, which is most credible and accurate source, Alexander has died on 29th Aiaru (10th of June). Alexander III of Macedon died in his 33rd year; and had reigned for 12 years and eight months.( 8 month -Arrian; 7 month Diodorus)

Some historians disagree about the death of Alexander, and state that this occurred in consequence of a draught of poison, it seems necessary for us to mention their account also. His friends staged a vast contest in honor of his funeral. Ptolemy, the later king of Egypt, transferred Alexander's body to Alexandria in Egypt. He received divine honors, both in Egypt and elsewhere in the Greek cities.

Some centuries later, Alexander's golden sarcophagus was melted down for coinage by the Ptolomius XI (116-107, 87-81 B.C.) and replaced with one of alabaster. Strabo (17. C 794), who visited Alexander's tomb himself in the first century A.D. The subsequent mismanagement of Egyptian affairs by Ptolemy IX's successors, as well as the economic collapse of the kingdom, caused by an incompetent administration, made it impossible for the Ptolemies to restore Alexander's gold sarcophagus. Diodoros from Sicily visited Alexandria and Alexander in ca. 60 B.C. and has preserved an exact description of the tomb for posterity (18.26.3; 28.2-4).

Alexander's prominent visitors included Caius Julius Caesar who visited Alexandria in 45 B.C. and went to pay his respects to his idol. -[Suetonius (Caesar, VII) and Lucian (X.19),  second century A.D.] When Augustus defeated Marcus Anthonius and Cleopatra at Actium in 31 B.C. and then conquered Alexandria in 30 B.C., he visited Alexander's tomb. When Augustus's guides offered to take him next to the tombs of the Ptolemaic dynasty, Augustus answered that he came to see a king and not dead people (Dio Cassius, Roman History, 51; 2nd-3rd centuries A.D.). An anecdote in Dio's report of Augustus's visit to Alexander is interesting: When Augustus inclined over to kiss the Alexander,  he accidentally broke Alexander's nose.

Some other Roman emperors visited the tomb of Alexander in Alexandria: Caligula,  went to Alexandria, paid a visit to the Sema and left with Alexander's cuirass (Xiphilinus, Epitome of Dio's Roman History). Septimus Severus (early third century A.D.) eventually closed the tomb to the public because he was nervous about its safety under the hoards of tourists who rushed to visit. The last reported imperial visit was made by Caracalla (3rd century A.D.), who believed that he was Alexander's reincarnation.

The alabaster sarcophagus disappeared some time in the 4th century AD, and his alabaster tomb may be found at the cemetery near Latin quarter of Alexandria.

In 1995 his tomb was eventually rediscovered in oasis of Siwah (although there are not certain archeological proofs). Quite apart from the fact it was in Siwah, Egypt and not Alexandria, where it was visited many times in antiquity, the tomb is dedicated to Alexander.

 
Hellenistic Era

No heir had been appointed to the throne, and his generals adopted Philip II's illegitimate son, Philip Arrhidaeus, and Alexander's posthumous son by Roxanne, Alexander IV, as kings, sharing out the satrapies among themselves, after much negotiation...He and his uncle Philip, as joint kings, were placed under the guardianship of Perdiccas, Peithon and Antipater in succession. After the death of Antipater (309) Roxana fled with his sun to Epirus, and was afterwards taken back to Macedonia, together with Olympias, by Polyperchon. Both kings were murdered, Arrhidaeus in 317 and Alexander IV in 309 with his mother Roxane were assassinated by Cassander who then usurped the throne of Macedonia and married Thessaloniki (Alexander the Great's sister) in order to legitimize his position (Justin xiv. 6, xv. 2). The parts of former Alexander's empire became independent monarchies, and the generals, following Antigonus' lead in 306, took the title of monarch. The turbulent years from 323 to 301 B.C. saw endless conflicts among Alexander the Great's generals which ended with the parceling out of the Alexander's empire and the creation of the first Hellenistic kingdoms. Alexander generals known as Diadochs had established their own kingdoms on the rests of the Alexander's empire:

  •  
    •  
      • Ptolemy Lagus, Alexander's half bother (Egypt and Palestine);
      • Seleucus Nicator (Mesopotamia and Syria);
      • Cassander (Macedonia and Greece);
      • Antigonus (Asia Minor)
      • Lysimachus (Thrace).



 

Epilogue

Several different sources of the period have survived, especially Plutarch,  Diodorus, Xenophon and Arrian. Classic authors have covered different issues, which are compared with the information obtained from other sources, such as inscriptions and political speeches from Athens (Demosthenes).

Alexander had the iron will and capacity to led his men; he knew when to with draw and to modify and adapt his policy. Alexander had imaginative fantasy of genius which was driven with the strong romantic figures like Achilles, Heracles, and Dionysus. He was sometimes cruel and autocratic. The only clear characteristics that emerge are his outstanding military genius and his successful politics. The only psychologically clear motive is the pursuit of glory: the urge to surpass the heroes of myth and to attain divinity. The success of his ambition, at immense cost in human terms, spread a veneer of Greek culture far into central Asia, which remained present during the Hellenistic era  for a long time after his death.

His financial policy was centralized with collectors independent of the local governors, the establishment of a new coinage helped trade everywhere and vast amount of the Persian treasuries, have created desperately needed impact to the economy of the Mediterranean.

Alexander has founded over 70 new cities. The Greek influence remained strong and the colonization process was continued by Alexander's successors. The diffusion of Hellenic customs over Asia till India was one of the most dominant effects of Alexander's conquests, but his plans for ethnic fusion, did not have success. The Macedonians rejected the idea of ethnic fusion and in the later Seleucid Empire the Hellenistic element was dominant. After his death, nearly all the noble Susa marriages were dissolved.

As a conqueror Alexander is among the greatest the history has seen. He had adapted new tactics and created innovative forms of warfare ( battles against the Shaka nomads, or against Porus with his elephants). His strategy was genial and imaginative and he knew how to use the opportunities that occurred in every battle that were decisive for the victory.

He initiated the era of the Hellenistic monarchies, and created, if not politically, at least economically and culturally, a single market extending from Gibraltar to the Punjab, open to trade, social and cultural exchange. This vast territory had common civilization, and the Greek was in fact was the lingua franca of the time.

Alexander's expedition brought significant improvements of geography and natural history. His achievements mark a decisive moment in the World history. The Roman Empire, the spread of Christianity as a world religion, and the thousand years of Byzantium were all in part the consequences of Alexander's conquests.

XIX Century historiography

Alexander the Great is one of the instances of the vanity of appealing from disputes to " the verdict of posterity "; his character and his policy are estimated today as variously as ever. Certain features-the high physical courage, the impulsive energy, the fervid imagination - stand out clear; beyond that disagreement begins. That he was a great master of war is admitted by most of those who judge his character unfavorably, but even this has been seriously questioned (e.g. by Beloch, Grieck. Gesck. ill. (i.), p.66). There is a dispute as to his real designs. That he aimed at conquering the whole world and demanded to be worshipped as a god is the traditional view. Droysen denies the former, and Niese maintains that his ambition was limited by the bounds of the Persian empire and that the claim to divine honors is fabulous (Historische Zeitschr. lxxix., 1897, i f.). It is true that our best authority, Arrian; fails to substantiate the traditional view satisfactorily; on the other hand those who maintain it urge that Arrian's interests were mainly military, and that the other authorities, if inferior in trustworthiness, are more complete in their range of vision. Of those, again, who maintain the traditional view, some, like Niebuhr and Grote, regard it as convicting Alexander of mad ambition and vainglory, while to Kaerst Alexander, only incorporate ideas which were the timely fruit of a long historical development. The policy of fusing Greeks and Orientals again is diversely judged. To Droysen and Kaerst it accords with the historical conditions; to Grote and to Beloch it is a betrayal of the prerogative of Hellenism.

Empire of Alexander The Great




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KEYWORDS: alexanderthegreat; ancientwarfare; macedon; macedonia; macedonian; macedonias; military
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Comment #1 Removed by Moderator

To: 68-69TonkinGulfYatchClub; Kathy in Alaska; LindaSOG; MoJo2001; tomkow6; Bethbg79; southerngrit; ...




A good morning to my fellow Canteeners,
our Military, Veterans, Allies and your families




Have a wonderful day!


See you all later.


2 posted on 01/13/2004 2:56:20 AM PST by LaDivaLoca (There can be no triumph w/o loss, no victory w/o suffering, no freedom w/o sacrifice. THANK U TROOPS)
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To: LaDivaLoca
Good Morning. Have a great day La Diva and all Canteeners.
3 posted on 01/13/2004 2:59:48 AM PST by Radix (Tag Line hiatus here.)
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To: LaDivaLoca
Good morning, LaDivaLoca(HUGS)How's it going?

A very pleasant good morning to everyone at the Canteen and to all of our military at home and abroad and our allies. Thanks for your continued service to our country.

I've a dentist appointment later this morning. Also, today's the day Microsoft sends down their January security bulleteins.

4 posted on 01/13/2004 3:08:37 AM PST by E.G.C.
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To: LaDivaLoca
Good morning Diva.


5 posted on 01/13/2004 3:21:59 AM PST by Aeronaut (In my humble opinion, the new expression for backing down from a fight should be called 'frenching')
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To: LaDivaLoca; 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub; Kathy in Alaska; tomkow6; JohnHuang2
Mornin', everybody ! Happy Tuesday !


Click for Dallas, Texas Forecast


Have a cup while you Freep !






For those who prefer hot chocolate.....




6 posted on 01/13/2004 3:35:02 AM PST by MeekOneGOP (Howie Dean in the South !!: http://Richard.Meek.home.comcast.net/IowaRatsLastMealNewDeal.JPG)
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To: yall
DNC looking for your sob story (it's all Bush's fault!)
(Below posted on #40)


Dear DNC:

Thank you for giving the opportunity to speak my mind.

I lost my job this past year. When Clinton was president, I worked in a prosperous enterprise. But in the last year, we had to close our operations. We simply could not compete with foreign labor.

This foreign labor worked for low pay under very bad conditions. They worked very long shifts, and many even died on the job. This competition could hardly be called "fair." I was forced out of the place where I had worked for 34 years. Not a single government program was there to help me. How can Bush call himself "compassionate?"

Far worse, I lost two of my sons in Bush's evil war in Iraq. They gave their lives for their country, and for what? So that Bush's oil buddies can get rich. My pain of losing my sons is indescribable.

While it is trivial next to the loss of my sons, I regret to say that I also lost my home. I simply had nothing left. How can Bush call himself a Christian when he neglects people like me? I am a senior citizen with various medical problems. I'm not in a position where I can begin a new career.

I was reduced to the point where I had to live in a hole in a ground, all because of President Bush. And when the authorities found me there, did they have any compassion for my misfortune and ailments? No, I was arrested. Mr. Bush, I dare you to look me in the face and tell me you are a compassionate man! I dare you to look me in the face and tell me you a Christian!

If I had any money left, I would donate it to the Democratic party. If Al Gore had been elected in 2000, I guarantee I would still have a job, a home, and most importantly, my dear sons!

Regards,

Saddam Hussein

7 posted on 01/13/2004 3:38:20 AM PST by MeekOneGOP (Howie Dean in the South !!: http://Richard.Meek.home.comcast.net/IowaRatsLastMealNewDeal.JPG)
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To: MeeknMing
Good morning Meekie. This is so funny. LOL


8 posted on 01/13/2004 4:05:32 AM PST by beachn4fun (I pray for safe passage for all military preparing to come or go.)
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To: beachn4fun
hehe ! I'm glad we can post stuff like that on this thread now.

9 posted on 01/13/2004 4:11:37 AM PST by MeekOneGOP (Howie Dean in the South !!: http://Richard.Meek.home.comcast.net/IowaRatsLastMealNewDeal.JPG)
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To: LaDivaLoca
Forgetting those things which are behind . . . , I press toward the goal.


THINKING IT OVER
What mistakes of the past are still burdening you?
Have you confessed them to God and accepted His complete forgiveness? (1 John 1:9).       
When you do, your future will hold great promise

Instead of living in the shadows of yesterday, walk in the light of today and the hope of tomorrow.

10 posted on 01/13/2004 4:28:52 AM PST by The Mayor (The more you look forward to heaven, the less you'll desire of earth.)
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To: LaDivaLoca; Kathy in Alaska; MoJo2001; LindaSOG; Fawnn; Bethbg79; bentfeather; Ragtime Cowgirl; ...
Click on the pic and I'll guide you
to the start of today's




FR CANTEEN MISSION STATEMENT
Showing support and boosting the morale of
our military and our allies military
and the family members of the above.
Honoring those who have served before.
CLICK HERE TO FIND LATEST THREAD.



11 posted on 01/13/2004 4:36:21 AM PST by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub (Thank You Troops, Past and Present)
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To: All
I am sorry.
I'll be later today.
12 posted on 01/13/2004 4:40:26 AM PST by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub (Thank You Troops, Past and Present)
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To: LaDivaLoca; 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub; tomkow6; Kathy in Alaska; MoJo2001; bentfeather; ...

Good morning everyone. Good morning to our

Military and our allies.

Also..... to all newcomers or sometime lurkers.

Thanks Diva for the history lesson.

Last night I saw part of Toby Keith's new video/song called, "American Soldier." OMG! It is awesome. It made me cry. They should give it a "hanky alert" at the start of that video. I can't wait to see the whole thing. I have a message for Toby......if you happen to be one of our lurkers or members..... thank you......I want to give you a big kiss for what you do to support our military.......

Let me know when you are in the DC Metro area and I'll deliver it.

On one of our local oldies radio stations, they are doing a "what were you doing in 1969" music remembrance. One guy called in and said he had just came back from the war in Vietnam, did not receive a nice welcome home in America, called baby killer, etc., went to a car dealer somewhere in Northern Virginia and they refused to wait on him because he was in uniform. WHAT A SHAME! The DJ said in a very serious voice, "Let's hope to God this never happens again." I say, AMEN!. Let us not let this happen to this generation!

Ok, now something on the ligher side........I have found my warrior outfit and am ready to do battle. .....Let's see, what do I want to hunt? Hmmmmm.........this? ....nah.....

This?.....nah....

I know............yeah!

We will have another fairly nice day today, but tonight it goes back to being cold. I guess we'll fire up that ole fireplace tonight. Ok, now that I've said hello to everyone, let me get dressed and get to work. Will be back shortly to check on everyone.


13 posted on 01/13/2004 4:42:24 AM PST by beachn4fun (I pray for safe passage for all military preparing to come or go.)
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To: LaDivaLoca; 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub; LindaSOG; Radix; 2LT Radix jr; Severa; Bethbg79; ...

 

SALUTE!

 


14 posted on 01/13/2004 4:45:43 AM PST by tomkow6
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To: LaDivaLoca; 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub; LindaSOG; Radix; 2LT Radix jr; Severa; Bethbg79; ...

Good morning, LaDiva! Good morning, Canteen Crew! Good morning, EVERYBODY!

GOOD
 

MORNING

TROOPS!


 


15 posted on 01/13/2004 4:46:24 AM PST by tomkow6
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To: LaDivaLoca; 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub; LindaSOG; Radix; 2LT Radix jr; Severa; Bethbg79; ...

 

Today's FEEBLE attempt at humor:

Four retired guys are walking down a street in Milwaukee.  Then they turn a corner and see a sign that says:

"Old Timer's Bar " " ALL DRINKS 10 CENTS !".  They look at each other, then go in.  The old bartender says in a voice that carries across the room, "Come on in and let me pour one for you, what'll it be, Gentlemen?"

There seems to be a fully stocked bar, so the men all ask for a martini. In short order, the bartender serves up 4 iced martinis -- and says,
"That'll be 10 cents each, please."

They can't believe their good luck.  They pay the 40 cents, finish their martinis, and order another round.

Again, four excellent martinis are produced with the bartender again saying, "That's 40 more cents, please." They pay the 40 cents, but their curiosity is more than they can stand.  They've each had two martinis and so far they've spent less than a dollar.

Finally one of the men couldn't stand it any longer and asks the bartender "How can you afford to serve martinis as good as these for a dime apiece?"

"Here's my story.  I'm a retired tailor from Brooklyn, and I always wanted to own a bar.  Last year I hit the lottery for $25 million and decided to open this place.  Every drink costs a dime, wine, liquor, beer, all the same."

"Wow.  That's quite a story" says one of the men.  The four of them sipped at their martinis and couldn't help but notice three other guys at the end of the bar who didn't have a drink in front of them, and hadn't ordered anything the whole time they were there.

One man gestures at the three at the end of the bar without drinks and asks the bartender, "What's with them?"

The bartender says, "They're seniors from Florida, they're waiting for happy hour."

16 posted on 01/13/2004 4:47:24 AM PST by tomkow6
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To: LaDivaLoca; 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub; LindaSOG; Radix; 2LT Radix jr; Severa; Bethbg79; ...

 

Chicagoland Weather

January 13, 2004
Chicago, IL
Sunrise 7:17 AM (CST)
Sunset 4:41 PM (CST)
Hrs. of Daylight 9 Hrs., 24 Mins

 

Currently    
30°  
alt
Mostly Cloudy
      Hi: 30
      Lo: 19
altalt

5 Day Forecast

WED THU FRI SAT SUN
alt
AM Wintry Mix
High: 33
Low: 19
alt
Few Snow Showers
High: 27
Low: 16
alt
Few Snow Showers
High: 32
Low: 32
alt
Partly Cloudy
High: 42
Low: 19
alt
Partly Cloudy
High: 27
Low: 15

17 posted on 01/13/2004 4:47:59 AM PST by tomkow6
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To: LaDivaLoca

Today's classic warship, Massachusetts (BB-54)

South Dakota class battleship
Displacement: 43,200 tons
Dimensions: 684' (length overall); 106' (maximum beam)
Powerplant: 60,000 horsepower steam turbines with electric drive, producing a 23 knot maximum speed
Armament (Main Battery): Twelve 16"/50 guns in four triple turrets
Armament (Secondary Battery): Sixteen 6"/53 guns in single mountings (eight guns on each side of the ship)

Massachusetts (BB-54) was laid down by Bethlehem Shipbuilding Corp., Quincy, Mass., 4 April 1921. In accordance with provisions of the Washington Naval Treaty, which was signed by the United States 6 February 1922, construction was suspended 8 February 1922 when the ship was about 11% completed; and the contract was canceled 17 August 1923. Her unfinished hull was sold 8 November 1923 to the Steel Scrap Co., Philadelphia, Pa.. for scrap, and her name was struck from the Navy List 10 November 1923.

18 posted on 01/13/2004 4:48:43 AM PST by aomagrat (IYAOYAS)
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To: LaDivaLoca
Great stuff! Thanks. Good morning to all.
19 posted on 01/13/2004 4:57:21 AM PST by PGalt
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To: PGalt

Hi,  PGalt!

Welcome to the Canteen!

Wanna buy a burka?

 

 

20 posted on 01/13/2004 5:02:41 AM PST by tomkow6
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