France Plays Down Claim Attack Caused Plane Crash

Reuters ^ | 1/5/04 | Opheera McDoom

[TexKat]

SHARM EL-SHEIKH, Egypt (Reuters) - France said on Monday it attached little credence to a previously unknown Islamic group's claim to have brought down a plane that crashed off Egypt, killing 133 French tourists and 15 other people.

Egypt again defended the safety record of Flash Airlines, operators of the Boeing 737 that plunged into the Red Sea on Saturday, but Switzerland issued a fresh statement that it had banned the Egyptian company from its airspace on safety grounds.

French civil aviation authority head Michel Wachenheim said France's own checks on the doomed plane had showed "nothing abnormal."

An anonymous caller claiming to represent a Yemen-based group called Ansar al-Haq (Followers of the Truth) told an international news agency the group had downed the plane and would also attack Air France planes unless the French government dropped plans to ban Islamic headscarves from state schools.

Although France says no conclusions can be made on why the plane crashed until all the facts are known, French Justice Minister Dominique Perben said: "On the basis of the information in my possession, (the claim) is not very credible."

The Egyptian government has ruled out an attack on the charter plane, which crashed shortly after take-off from the Red Sea resort of Sharm el-Sheikh bound for Cairo and Paris.

FLIGHT RECORDERS MAY HOLD THE KEY

French officials said the plane's two flight recorders, which could hold the key to explaining why it crashed, had not been located yet. The so-called "black boxes" record technical data about the flight and conversations between the pilots.

French experts had to delay plans to use a submersible robot to search for the flight recorders from the wreckage of the plane, now lying in deep water off Sharm el-Sheikh.

"The robot arrived yesterday...but it takes time to prepare the specialist equipment and coordinate and organize with the teams," said France's ambassador to Egypt, Jean-Claude Cousseran.

Rescue teams have found body parts and wreckage but no survivors.

Swiss authorities said on Monday they had found two Flash aircraft unsafe in 2002, raising the possibility that one was the plane that crashed on Saturday.

In Cairo, Flash officials were not immediately available for comment on the Swiss statement.

But they have said the doomed plane was one of only two that Flash has operated in recent years, including all of 2002, although Swiss officials were unable to confirm positively that it was one of those they had inspected.

Switzerland said it had inspected one of Flash's aircraft in April 2002 and found various problems, including missing navigation documents, fuel reserves not calculated to international standards and maintenance deficiencies.

The Swiss Federal Office for Civil Aviation said an inspection of a second Flash aircraft in October 2002 had revealed "essentially the same defects."

After Flash failed to provide sufficient proof the defects had been remedied, it was barred from landing in Switzerland a few days later, the office said.

Egyptian Civil Aviation Minister Ahmed Mohamed Shafiq Zaki said earlier on Monday the Swiss had let a Flash plane take off from Zurich with 148 Swiss tourists in October 2002 after giving the plane a safety check.

"That means it was 100 percent safe," he said.

(Reporting by Opheera Mcdoom, additional reporting by Amil Khan and Thierry Leveque in Paris)

[theFIRMbss]

>I would think they would have timed the crash for someplece besides the RED SEA for maximun damage

Britain's Tony Blair
and his family were there,
on a holiday,

in Egypt. I bet
this plane took off, did something
seen as threatening,

and was shot right down.
Rather than spark French/British
tensions in public,

this is being played
as a technical glitch, not
an "intervention."

[Yaelle]

«J'ai perdu ma mère il y a un mois, aujourd'hui ma tante. La série noire continue. Elle m'a laissé des messages sur mon portable me demandant de venir la chercher à l'arrivée. Elle entendait quelque chose de bizarre juste avant le décollage. Il y a eu du bruit, des cris d'enfants puis une coupure», a indiqué son neveu.

I will translate this above part:

"I lost my mother a month ago, and now today my aunt. The "black series" [bad luck] continues. She left me some messages on my mobile asking me to come pick her up upon arrival. She heard something strange just before the crash. There was some noise, cries of children, and then she was cut off [the phone line]," said her nephew.

[diamondjoe]

So why no eyewitnesses claiming they saw a missile heading towards the plane?

Look, anytime something bad happens these days, there is going to be some Islamic "group" (I put "group" in quotes because 9 times out of 10 these new groups are probably nothing more than some guy sitting in his mom's basement) to claim credit for it. Lest we forget, Al Qaeda took credit for the power blackout on the east coast last year.

[Question_Assumptions]

It is possible that the passengers fought to stop the plane from being taken over and it was crashed, ala United 93. All French are not cowards. The cockpit voice recorder is going to be key here.

[oceanview]

who shot it down? the egyptian air force?

[Palladin]

Thanks for translating, Yaelle. This jibes with what another phone call recipient said...the person talking to him from the plane said "There is something wrong with the flight". Not-"something wrong with the plane". Did she observe a cabin takeover, rather than a mechanical failure?

[TexKat]

Who to believe? </>

French? Muslims?

LOL not much of a choice here truth_seeker.

[theFIRMbss]

>So why no eyewitnesses claiming they saw a missile heading towards the plane?
>who shot it down? the egyptian air force?

We're talking about
Egypt, remember? Our press
gives almost no time

to Flight 800
witnesses. And I would guess
no one in Egypt

either will admit
they let foreign fighters fly,
or that they did it

themselves. Like our own
Flight 800, I think here
we'll just never know...

[Yaelle]

I know. There was another version of this aunt's message that seemed to say that there was a female flight attendant standing next to the aunt at the time. How would anyone know that from a recorded message?? I am sure the experts are poring over this recording now, listening for what that sound was that started this.

What sound would be heard in the event of a mechanical failure? Would there be one loud sound that would scare everyone to death, as seems to have happened (the children crying, etc.)?

[johnb838]

Let the slammic chicks wear just the headscarves to school...

NOBODY wants to see that.

[johnb838]

I just find it astonishing when they can rule out terrorism before they even get a boat on the scene. They won't have a black box for weeks. How the hell do they KNOW? Same with the one that crashed in Queens right after 9-11

[johnb838]

Or how 'bout that one Egyptian pilot that crashed the airliner while screaming Allahu Akhbar a few years back. They never did admit he was the culprit.

[EvilGate]

Sorry, but , France did not wait, that US meet the horror of terrorism attacks, on September 11 2001, and did not wait the last plane's crash, to discover what terrorism is too. The list below gives terrorism attacks against France. Most of them have been made by Islamist groups, on France (Paris) and all over the world too, against France and others.

- 15 septembre 1974 : PARIS,FRANCE Drugstore Saint Germain (2 dead, 34 injured)
- 27 juin 1975 : PARIS,FRANCE rue Toullier (2 dead, 1 injured)
- 2 décembre 1978 : PARIS,FRANCE BHV (8 injured)
- 27 mars 1979 : PARIS,FRANCE rue de Médicis (33 injured)
- 18 juillet 1980 : PARIS,FRANCE tentative contre M. Bakhtiar (2 dead, 2 injured)
- 3 octobre 1980 : PARIS,FRANCE Synagogue de la rue Copernic (4 dead, 22 injured)
- 29 mars 1982 : PARIS,FRANCE Le Capitole (5 dead, 28 injured)
- 22 avril 1982 : PARIS,FRANCE rue Marbeuf (1 dead, 63 injured)
- 9 août 1982 : PARIS,FRANCE rue des Rosiers (6 dead, 22 injured)
- 11 août 1982 : PARIS,FRANCE rue de la Baume (1 blessé)
- 17 septembre 1982 : PARIS,FRANCE Lycée Carnot (33 injured)
- 15 juillet 1983 : PARIS,FRANCE Aéroport d'Orly (8 dead, 60 injured)
- 25 août 1983 : BERLIN GERMANY, Maison de France, Berlin (1 dead, 23 injured)
- 30 septembre 1983 : MARSEILLE, FRANCE Foire de Marseille (1 dead, 25 injured)
- 23 octobre 1983 : Beyrouth, le Drakkar (58 dead)
- 19 novembre 1983 : PARIS,FRANCE restaurant l'Orée du Bois (21 injured)
- 23 décembre 1983 : PARIS,FRANCE restaurant le Grand Véfour (10 injured)
- 31 décembre 1983 : MARSEILLE, FRANCE gare Saint-Charles, Marseille (5 dead, 50 injured)
- 5 janvier 1984 : FRANCE TGV (Very High Speed Train), Tain l'Hermitage (2 dead)
- 4 février 1984 : PARIS,FRANCE hôtel le Méridien (1 blessé)
- 2 avril 1984 : PARIS,FRANCE rue de la Tour d'Auvergne (1 blessé)
- 16 août 1984 : FRANCE Annecy (1 blessé)
- 25 janvier 1985 : PARIS,FRANCE(1 dead : Général Audran)
- 23 février 1985 : PARIS,FRANCE Marks and Spencer (1 dead, 14 injured)
- 29 mars 1985 : PARIS,FRANCE cinéma Rivoli-Beaubourg (18 injured)
- 30 avril 1985 : PARIS,FRANCE TRT (1 blessé)
- 5 septembre 1985 : PARIS,FRANCE ATIC (1 blessé)
- 7 décembre 1985 : PARIS,FRANCE Galeries Lafayette ; Printemps (51 injured)
- 3 février 1986 : PARIS,FRANCE Galerie du Claridge (7 injured)
- 4 février 1986 : PARIS,FRANCE librairie Gibert-Jeune (4 injured)
- 5 février 1986 : PARIS,FRANCE FNAC (15 injured)
- 3 mars 1986 : PARIS,FRANCE rue de Lancry (3 injured)
- 17 mars 1986 : FRANCE TGV (Very High Speed Train) (10 injured)
- 20 mars 1986 : PARIS,FRANCE Galerie Point-Show (2 dead, 21 injured)
- 3 mai 1986 : Colombo, Sri-Lanka (3 dead)
- 9 juillet 1986 : PARIS,FRANCE Brigade de Répression du Banditisme=Police (1 dead, 20 injured)
- 8 septembre 1986 : PARIS,FRANCE Hôtel de Ville de Paris=Town hall (1 dead, 16 injured)
- 12 septembre 1986 : PARIS,FRANCE Casino la Défense (43 injured)
- 14 septembre 1986 : PARIS,FRANCE Pub Renault (2 dead, 1 blessé)
- 15 septembre 1986 : PARIS,FRANCE Préfecture de Police de Paris (1 dead, 45 injured)
- 17 septembre 1986 : PARIS,FRANCE rue de Rennes (7 dead, 54 injured)
- 17 novembre 1986 : PARIS,FRANCE (1 dead : M. Besse=Chaiman of Renault's Car)
- 15 décembre 1986 : FRANCE Provins (1 dead)
- 18 mars 1987 : AFRICA Djibouti (13 dead, 60 injured)
- 24 juillet 1987 : AFRICA Air Afrique (1 dead, 1 blessé)
- 19 novembre 1987 : PARIS,FRANCE Paris 15e (3 injured)
- 11 juillet 1988 : GREECE City of Poros (9 dead, 80 injured)
- 22 octobre 1988 : PARIS,FRANCE cinéma Saint-Michel (13 injured)
- 19 décembre 1988 : PARIS,FRANCE foyer Sonacotra (1 dead, 10 injured)
- 19 septembre 1989 : AFRICA DC 10 d'UTA (170 dead)
- 27 septembre 1990 : AFRICA Djibouti (1 dead, 15 injured)
- 23 octobre 1990 : PARIS,FRANCE(1 dead : Dr Cyrus Elahi)
- 18 avril 1991 : PARIS,FRANCE (1 dead : M. Boroumand)
- 25 décembre 1994 : MARSEILLE, FRANCE détournement de l'Airbus d'Air France (3 passagers décédés et 236 otages)
- 11 juillet 1995 : PARIS,FRANCE Paris 18e (2 dead dont l'Imam Sahraoui)
- 25 juillet 1995 : PARIS,FRANCE SUBWAY Saint Michel (8 dead, 200 injured)
- 17 août 1995 : PARIS,FRANCE Place de l'Etoile (20 injured)
- 3 septembre 1995 : PARIS,FRANCE marché Richard Lenoir (4 injured)
- 7 septembre 1995 : FRANCE école de Villeurbanne (32 injured)
- 6 octobre 1995 : PARIS,FRANCE avenue d'Italie (16 injured)
- 17 octobre 1995 : PARIS,FRANCE SUBWAY Orsay (30 injured)
- 27 mai 1996 (1 dead : M. Mazlouman)
- 3 décembre 1996 : PARIS,FRANCE SUBWAY Port-Royal (4 dead - 170 injured)
- 1993 à 1996 : ALGERIA(43 French murdered)
- 6 février 1998 : FRANCE Corse (1 dead : M. Claude Erignac, Préfet)
- 19 avril 2000 : Quévert (1 dead, 6 injured)
- 11 septembre 2001 : New York-Washington (3028 dead, 5 french).
- 2001 à 2002 : Israël (113 dead, 12 French),
- 11 avril 2002 : Djerba, Tunisia (19 dead)
- 8 mai 2002 : Karachi, Pakistan (14 dead, 12 injured).
- 12 octobre 2002 : Bali (Indonésie) 4 french dead

[Lady Eileen]

bump

[Viking2002]

And they still plant their lips on whatever bomb-laden posterior is bowing towards Mecca. What cowardice and lack of national will.

[expatpat]

If Paris went up in a mushroom cloud.....

It would never get to that point -- the Frogs (or CESMs) would surrender long before it came to that.

BTW, the deficiencies seem to have been paperwork issues rather than mechanical issues.

[Cicero]

Although France says no conclusions can be made on why the plane crashed until all the facts are known, French Justice Minister Dominique Perben said: "On the basis of the information in my possession, (the claim) is not very credible."

If no conclusions can be drawn until all the facts are known, how come they ruled out terrorism about five minutes after the plane went down?

We probably won't see proof that terrorism was responsible, but the way the French and Egyptians are responding there's no way that it can be ruled out. They have lost all credibility, much like the investigators of TWA 800.

[expatpat]

I just find it astonishing when they can rule out terrorism before they even get a boat on the scene

Probably wishful-thinking -- reminds me of the time Klinton said "We'll never know why Vince Foster died" the day after his death.

[RoseofTexas]

I heard the plane exploded into thousands of pieces. This would automatically = some kind of explosive! Strange thing is that it happened shortly after take off. Within range for the person on the ground to use a remote control device to set it off! IMHO!