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Posted on 01/04/2004 7:55:31 PM PST by Lead Moderator
Edited on 01/04/2004 8:43:28 PM PST by Lead Moderator. [history]
Hello everyone.
I've been talking to some long time Freepers via email for several weeks (one in particular). His concern was over the immigration threads and how they turn out on Free Republic.
Many times these threads turn into flame wars. There appears to be a lot of pent up hostility that various factions have developed for each other which ends up coming out, over and over, and the result is that the threads turn into a lot of crap. The moderators get hit with dozens of abuse reports over personal attacks and other silliness. Eventually, it becomes more work than is really worthwhile, and the threads get moved to the backroom so we don't have to deal with it.
This is an OK status quo when it occurs just occasionally. But when it happens frequently, it is not OK. That means that there is a problem.
So we are going to try to fix the problem.
There are sincere people on both sides of the debate who have gotten too into the battle that they are no longer being constructive. The goal will be to help them get back on track.
But we have two groups of people who are completely not sincere.
One group is those who really have no other goal other than to try to fracture conservatives and turn them on each other. One group is those who think that those most concerned with immigration are really just bigots and want to shout them down.
The good news is that both of these groups are very, very small. The bad news is that lots of people are firmly convinced that many of those who are just riled up sincere Freepers are actually part of one of these small groups. In other words, a lot of suspicion of motives has come about.
We're going to have to overcome that.
One of us tried something with a topic which had developed a similar problem, the Creation/Evolution threads. We'll give that type of approach a try for the immigration threads.
So here is what is going to happen. Starting tomorrow, when I see an immigration related thread go up, I am going to post immediately a warning that this would be a very bad thread to engage in insulting or flame baiting. When I see someone ignoring the warning, I'll address them personally telling them to knock it off.
What we need those who are serious about the issue to do is to act responsibly during this time. Engage in debate, without the insults. Post arguments, not ad hominems. Post facts, not innuendos. If you don't like someone, figure out a way to not have it get in the way of your postings. If you want to be disagreeable, do so without being needlessly disrespectful and instigative.
What will happen is, over time with this approach, those who are just trying to stir up crap, and those who are unable to help themselves, will stick out like sore thumbs and will get the axe.
And once that happens, then more direct involvement will not be needed, which I think everyone will agree is the preferred way.
So ping those who you know are interested in debating the topic to this thread, so they can see what is coming.
Thanks
Can you explain how one can be pro-criminal, pro-illegal alien, and be sincere at the same time?
And then?...
How often does "the government" actually have to offer something up on immigration?...Unless your talking illegal immigration, but that's already been "offerd up by the government" as illegal.
Careful now. You don't want to upset the conservative pro-criminal crowd.
You too? We've been waiting twenty years for that.
There's an awful lot of bigotry that doesn't occur on threads about other religions
Have you seen the news lately? Isn't Islamic and bigotry synonymous these days?
Care to try and name the "other religions" hell bent on physically destroying you and this country and we'll treat them with the same bigotry just to make it fair.
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I think we better be careful what we wish for.
BTW: They are among the best solutions I've seen on this subject - thanks S.T.!
True --- there are more than plenty laws on immigration now --- the government can enforce laws, it can refuse to enforce laws --- but to come up with a whole legal illegal immigration process seems ridiculous.
Unless you're ("the government's") intent is to re-define it...Bush just might be another one term president if he does...
Here's a repeat: "One group is those who really have no other goal other than to try to fracture conservatives and turn them on each other."
There are sincere people who support the breaking of laws, whether it be drugs laws or gun ordinances. On the other hand, those who want to humanely find a solution to undocumented immigration are not advocating lawlessness but rather accepting the geographic, political, cultural, demographic, and socio-economic reality which is our common southern border, and look for a workable solution from Washington.
Those who advocate against illegal immigration have an extra responsibility to ensure no one uses FreeRepublic to foist their calls for violence (as in "shoot shovel and shutup") or bigotry or dehumanization against any race, nationality, culture, or language. That self-policing has been sorely lacking in the past.
And that's exactly what's going to happen. Your going to hear every word in the world used, except one. Amnesty.
Notice Regarding Immigration Related Threads Many times these threads turn into flame wars. There appears to be a lot of pent up hostility that various factions have developed for each other which ends up coming out, over and over, and the result is that the threads turn into a lot of crap. The moderators get hit with dozens of abuse reports over personal attacks and other silliness. Eventually, it becomes more work than is really worthwhile, and the threads get moved to the backroom so we don't have to deal with it.This is an OK status quo when it occurs just occasionally. But when it happens frequently, it is not OK. That means that there is a problem.
So we are going to try to fix the problem.
< snip >
So here is what is going to happen. Starting tomorrow [Jan. 5th - today], when I see an immigration related thread go up, I am going to post immediately a warning that this would be a very bad thread to engage in insulting or flame baiting. When I see someone ignoring the warning, I'll address them personally telling them to knock it off.
What we need those who are serious about the issue to do is to act responsibly during this time. Engage in debate, without the insults. Post arguments, not ad hominems. Post facts, not innuendos. If you don't like someone, figure out a way to not have it get in the way of your postings. If you want to be disagreeable, do so without being needlessly disrespectful and instigative.
What will happen is, over time with this approach, those who are just trying to stir up crap, and those who are unable to help themselves, will stick out like sore thumbs and will get the axe.
And once that happens, then more direct involvement will not be needed, which I think everyone will agree is the preferred way.
So ping those who you know are interested in debating the topic to this thread, so they can see what is coming.
Please let me know if you want ON or OFF my General Interest or Texas ping list!. . .don't be shy.
Thanks for the heads up ! I would have missed this otherwise.
What will happen is, over time with this approach, those who are just trying to stir up crap, and those who are unable to help themselves, will stick out like sore thumbs and will get the axe.
Golly.
I think we could/should perhaps post something like this on every bus/econ thread. It is applicable there as well.
I am against illegal immigration. I do not think amnesty works. I also do not think we have the resources to find and deport all of the illegals we have right now. I also think that if we did allocate the resources to find and deport all illegals, the effort would cause such an uproar amongst civil libertarians (since it would invariably involve investigating many more people than just illegals) would fracture the political right. I think the answer is to improve border security to minimize the flow of illegals into the country, to reduce the welfare state so that those who do get through will be those who are industrious and not looking for a free ride, and over time with the inflow of illegals stemmed the illegal population would shrink as generations age and die. I am for cutting back on H1B visas during times of high unemployment, and am ambivalent about them in times of low unemployment. Immigration does not bother me in the least. I like a variety of cultures, as long as all of them are putting America first. I oppose illegal immigration. However, it is not my top issue, nor is it in my top five issues.
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