Can you explain how one can be pro-criminal, pro-illegal alien, and be sincere at the same time?
Here's a repeat: "One group is those who really have no other goal other than to try to fracture conservatives and turn them on each other."
There are sincere people who support the breaking of laws, whether it be drugs laws or gun ordinances. On the other hand, those who want to humanely find a solution to undocumented immigration are not advocating lawlessness but rather accepting the geographic, political, cultural, demographic, and socio-economic reality which is our common southern border, and look for a workable solution from Washington.
Those who advocate against illegal immigration have an extra responsibility to ensure no one uses FreeRepublic to foist their calls for violence (as in "shoot shovel and shutup") or bigotry or dehumanization against any race, nationality, culture, or language. That self-policing has been sorely lacking in the past.
I am against illegal immigration. I do not think amnesty works. I also do not think we have the resources to find and deport all of the illegals we have right now. I also think that if we did allocate the resources to find and deport all illegals, the effort would cause such an uproar amongst civil libertarians (since it would invariably involve investigating many more people than just illegals) would fracture the political right. I think the answer is to improve border security to minimize the flow of illegals into the country, to reduce the welfare state so that those who do get through will be those who are industrious and not looking for a free ride, and over time with the inflow of illegals stemmed the illegal population would shrink as generations age and die. I am for cutting back on H1B visas during times of high unemployment, and am ambivalent about them in times of low unemployment. Immigration does not bother me in the least. I like a variety of cultures, as long as all of them are putting America first. I oppose illegal immigration. However, it is not my top issue, nor is it in my top five issues.
I doubt highly that anyone you debate with here on Free Republic considers themselves to be pro-criminal. I doubt very many consider themselves to be pro-illegal alien.
You may consider those to be the natural result of their positions, but that doesn't change the fact that they are coming at the problem from a different angle. They can (and most are) just as sincere and conservative as you.
Yes, I said just as conservative as you. The reason that this is such a hot debate within conservatism is that it involves many different and sometimes competing aspects of conservative thought. It is conservative to want to protect America's culture from rapid change and destability. It is conservative to want to keep the nation secure and to have the law respected. It is also conservative to not believe that a perfect solution can be found. It is also conservative to understand that their are limited resources and be concerned with cost. It is also conservative to be concerned with the impact on civil liberties. And wrapped around all of this are electoral politics concerns- which many different people think are impacted in many different ways by many different approaches. And most of these people are sincere.
You could probably help keep these threads on the right track by not baiting people by calling them pro-criminal. Instead, make arguments that point out how in your eyes the stance they take rewards criminal behavior. It is a subtle difference, but less instigative. And as a benefit to you, it is more likely to convince the person you are debating. I doubt highly that you are winning any converts with insults.