Posted on 01/04/2004 7:55:31 PM PST by Lead Moderator
Edited on 01/04/2004 8:43:28 PM PST by Lead Moderator. [history]
Hello everyone.
I've been talking to some long time Freepers via email for several weeks (one in particular). His concern was over the immigration threads and how they turn out on Free Republic.
Many times these threads turn into flame wars. There appears to be a lot of pent up hostility that various factions have developed for each other which ends up coming out, over and over, and the result is that the threads turn into a lot of crap. The moderators get hit with dozens of abuse reports over personal attacks and other silliness. Eventually, it becomes more work than is really worthwhile, and the threads get moved to the backroom so we don't have to deal with it.
This is an OK status quo when it occurs just occasionally. But when it happens frequently, it is not OK. That means that there is a problem.
So we are going to try to fix the problem.
There are sincere people on both sides of the debate who have gotten too into the battle that they are no longer being constructive. The goal will be to help them get back on track.
But we have two groups of people who are completely not sincere.
One group is those who really have no other goal other than to try to fracture conservatives and turn them on each other. One group is those who think that those most concerned with immigration are really just bigots and want to shout them down.
The good news is that both of these groups are very, very small. The bad news is that lots of people are firmly convinced that many of those who are just riled up sincere Freepers are actually part of one of these small groups. In other words, a lot of suspicion of motives has come about.
We're going to have to overcome that.
One of us tried something with a topic which had developed a similar problem, the Creation/Evolution threads. We'll give that type of approach a try for the immigration threads.
So here is what is going to happen. Starting tomorrow, when I see an immigration related thread go up, I am going to post immediately a warning that this would be a very bad thread to engage in insulting or flame baiting. When I see someone ignoring the warning, I'll address them personally telling them to knock it off.
What we need those who are serious about the issue to do is to act responsibly during this time. Engage in debate, without the insults. Post arguments, not ad hominems. Post facts, not innuendos. If you don't like someone, figure out a way to not have it get in the way of your postings. If you want to be disagreeable, do so without being needlessly disrespectful and instigative.
What will happen is, over time with this approach, those who are just trying to stir up crap, and those who are unable to help themselves, will stick out like sore thumbs and will get the axe.
And once that happens, then more direct involvement will not be needed, which I think everyone will agree is the preferred way.
So ping those who you know are interested in debating the topic to this thread, so they can see what is coming.
Thanks
Because I don't have the ability to configure it. John does, but I do not know what is on his plate right now.
In the meanwhile, how about you and others helping out by making sure that these threads get a keyword of "illegals", "immigration" or "borders"? Then I can find them more easily just by using this and this and this.
Bump!
g in AZ
Well, the issue of undocumented immigration is a different one from thievery or freeloaderism. I look forward to seeing you on any thread condemning, say, tax-evaders or dads who refuse to provide for their own children. Are you claiming that undocumented immigrants are all despicable thieves or deadbeats? That would be an example of bigotry.
g
The ranchers along our side of the border and the Tono Odom (sp?) Reservation are overwhelmed with the garbage and refuse left by hundreds of illegals. I have seen reports and photo evidence of what these ranchers have to deal with.
Unfortunately, we have a democrat governor who is chummy with Vicente Fox, so it's rather a hopeless situation for our border towns and cities.
g
Isn't is unfortunate we even have to think such words, let alone speak them.
If just half of the eighteen points you've laid out could be implemented tomorrow, we would save hundreds of millions of dollars this week.
This sums it up very clearly. Say no more...
You haven't listed your top five issues, but would it be safe to assume that your sympathies lie on the Conservative side of those issues?
How could anyone imagine that Conservatism will prevail, if roughly 2 million new future (or in many cases immediate) Liberal/Leftist voters are added every year to the 'Legions of the Left' that are already here via out-of-control, massive, legal and illegal immigration?
How does one explain what happened to 'B-1' Bob Dornan in California without factoring in the negative impact of the 'illegal alien' vote?
Were Dornan's positions too Conservative for his constituency before Sanchez, his opponent, over-ran his district with her Liberal/Leftist, illegal alien hordes?
This is happening all over the country, now. There are many of us that are sincerely perturbed by this administration and Congress merely turning a blind eye to the influx of so many Leftist/Socialist/Marxists legally and illegally, so rapidly for reasons of political convenience.
The Right simply doesn't have the capability to win the hearts and minds of so many when they enter in numbers vast enough to simply vote Left, as they are automatically predisposed to do, and with their Leftist vote, vote themselves access to everyone else's wallet or purse before they even learn English.
This is why there are many of us that perceive out-of-control, legal and illegal immigration to be the linch pin of all other Conservative issues.
If your top five issues are in my top ten, rest assured that they will soon be relegated to social obscurity by this influx of 3rd-world, Leftist/Socialist/Marxist, future voters.
The illegal aliens already here need to be encouraged to deport themselves to their home countries. They are not needed, at all.
Anything else is not a solution, it's just a recipe for further failure.
At least, Conservatives will see it as a failure, Liberals will be dancing in the streets. ;^)
I infer from your reply that immigration does bother you.
That is fine. While I disagree with your position (assuming that it is your position) I have no problem with you expressing it, arguing it, debating it, advocating for it, and so forth.
What I would have a problem with is if you were to engage in personal attacks on anyone who does not share your views. What I would have a problem with is if you were trying to run off from this forum anyone who does not share your view in the matter.
Regards
I know there are many such instances of this occurring.
What ever happened to property rights?
If US citizens private property is being used to perform illiegal immigration there are all kinds of implications there that should come under the protection of the US gubmint.
It's so, so frustrating.
Safe assumption. My top five issues (and obviously, some issues cross over into other issues) are abortion, taxes, federalism, national security, and rkba. Those are not in any particular order.
They'll never have to worry about being re-elected, will they?
On the bright side, a lot of Republican politicians are gonna be out of a job and all the perks that go with it. Ain't that sad? :)
Since this invasion of our country has been going on for well over 20 plus years, how long are you prepared to wait? Look at the facts. It's no wonder people are speculating, worrying and getting very angry.
This titanic invasion of millions of illegal aliens has been going on long before Bush's Dad was President. His Did also did absolutely nothing about it on his watch. Years later, we have upwards of 15 million illegal aliens in country.
The epic chaos being caused by this invasion is nationwide. They are taking jobs, driving up our taxes, many of our hospital ERs are standing room only, full of illegals that don't pay the bills, our land fills are full, our highways and freeways are jammed, they are choking off our social services that were met for American Citizens, and have created massive coast to coast fraud.
This government approved invasion is not only a national disgrace, it's now a national security nightmare.
It's a ticking time bomb, as hundreds of thousands continue to pour into our nation illegally.
So it quite understandable to see people extremely concerned about this never ending invasion. The solutions to this madness have been many, yet the government does not act.
The solutions are many and they have been suggested thousands of times. So what are these facts and ideas you speak of or are waiting for?
Actually, Dornan's district was always the most liberal one in Orange County. He needed to campaign harder than the average member of Congress to be re-elected. Usually said campaigning revolved around how he took care of business for his constituents instead of his political opinions.
Dornan forgot that fact.
He engaged in a presidential bid that was doomed from the start, stayed with it well after it was obvious that it was a loser, and neglected taking care of his constituents. BTW, that's how Jim Bates lost his seat to Duncan Hunter in 1980. That lesson was NOT lost on Mr. Hunter--if you live in his district, and you have a federal problem, he makes stuff happen for you. He was burned out of his home in the fires--but he's still taking care of his constituents.
Out-of-control legal and illegal immigration of 3rd-world, Leftist/Socialist/Marxist future and immediate voters is going to have the exact same negative impact on all of their political carreers.
Are you willing to agree that out-of-control, legal and illegal immigration is the linch-pin for all other Conservative issues and should be made your #1 issue, as well, yet?
If not, why not?
I'll be in the shower, so it may be a moment before I reply to your answer to this hugh question. ;^)
As I stated above, I am not going to be drawn into the debate. Sorry.
You bet. It makes sense to me, too. Thanks ...
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