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Egypt Airliner CRASHED in Egypt - A final update on root cause analysis? Technical Fault Blamed
Various | 1/3/2004 | ME

Posted on 01/03/2004 4:50:17 AM PST by Gorons

Egypt Plane Crash Kills 148; Technical Fault Blamed

By Ruben Sprich Reuters Saturday, January 3, 2004; 7:15 AM

SHARM EL-SHEIKH, Egypt (Reuters) - An Egyptian Boeing 737 airliner carrying 135 mostly French tourists crashed into the Red Sea off the Egyptian resort of Sharm el-Sheikh on Saturday and a rescue team member said there were no survivors.

"The initial indications are that it was a technical fault, but that is only preliminary," Civil Aviation Ministry Secretary-General Hassan Abo Ghanima told Reuters. He had said earlier: "There is no sign of terrorism."

The plane, operated by the Egyptian company Flash Airlines, disappeared from radar screens minutes after take-off from Sharm el-Sheikh airport at 0244 GMT and crashed into deep water a few miles to the southeast, official sources said.

The pilots did not report any problem and the weather was normal with good visibility, official sources said. The plane was heading for Cairo to refuel, change crew and take on more passengers before flying on to Paris.

A French diplomat based in Egypt said there were 135 passengers aboard, all but one French, and 13 Egyptian and Moroccan crew members.

The crash coincided with intense U.S. concern about possible attacks involving civilian airliners, which has led to the cancellation of seven U.S.-bound flights in just over a week.

Egyptian military aircraft and ships, helped by small boats from nearby diving centers, launched a rescue operation at first light. Eyewitnesses said they were finding pieces of human bodies but no complete corpses and no survivors.

"We have half of a body here, half a body there. But we don't have any body in one piece," said a rescue worker, speaking by telephone from one of the boats.

"There's lots of personal stuff, small bags and toys. We have collected very small pieces of the plane but the body of the plane has sunk," said another rescue worker, who asked not to be named.

Yasser Imam, a spokesman for the local authorities, said: "What they have picked up so far is just fragments of bodies. The chances of finding complete bodies look slim because of the force with which the plane hit the surface of the water."

DEEP WATER

The plane crashed in the Strait of Tiran, between the Sinai peninsula and Saudi Arabia, where the water is hundreds of meters (feet) deep -- too deep for divers to reach the flight recording devices, diving school managers said.

French President Jacques Chirac telephoned his Egyptian counterpart Hosni Mubarak to obtain details of the crash and expressed his "deepest shock" at the tragedy, his office said.

Eyewitnesses in Sharm el-Sheikh said the rescue operation was concentrating on an area about half a mile off Naama Bay, the site of many large hotels.

An Egyptian armed forces C-130 transport plane and two helicopters were taking part in the search, witnesses said.

Flash Airlines is an Egyptian charter airline company based in Cairo and flying to European cities. It flew two Boeing 737-300 planes manufactured in 1993, according to its Web site.

The plane was maintained regularly in Norway and there was no sign of any mechanical fault before its last flight, the official Egyptian news agency MENA reported.

French Transport Minister Gilles de Robien went to Charles de Gaulle airport, where distraught friends and relatives of passengers on the flight were being told of the crash.

An eyewitness speaking on Egyptian television said people heard a loud noise at the time of the crash but he interpreted this as the sound of the plane hitting the water. "In the morning we were surprised by a kind of slapping noise in the sea, a very loud noise," said the unidentified witness.

Sharm el-Sheikh, a major diving resort, is considered one of the most secure places in Egypt because of its isolation and Mubarak's frequent presence. Police man checkpoints on the only paved roads into the resort and check travelers' identities.

The last major crash by an Egyptian plane took place in May 2002, when a Boeing 767 of the state airline EgyptAir crashed near Tunis airport, killing 15 people.

In October 1999, an EgyptAir Boeing 767 dived into the sea off Nantucket, Massachusetts, killing all 217 people on board.

On Christmas Day, a Beirut-bound Boeing 727 smashed into the Atlantic after take-off from Benin, killing 138 people.

© 2004 Reuters


TOPICS: Editorial; Extended News
KEYWORDS: 737; airflash; airliner; airsec; crash; egypt; egyptair; flash604; flashair; flight8604; france; fsh604; orangealert4; planecrash; redsea; sharmelsheik; sharmelsheikh; terrorism
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To: onyx
Oh, hell!! I watched a James Bond marathon last week. Just use your imagination.

Usama was into blowing up embassies for a while (in addition to the Trade Center). It worked well. Structures is his expertise.

The 9-11 hits only worked okay leaving two targets unscathed.

So it looks like we're back to structures....structures of planes. How do we by-pass security, pack a plane with explosives and hold it there, detonate it at a time it will do the most damage, and have almost simultaneous events.

141 posted on 01/03/2004 9:06:08 AM PST by Sacajaweau (God Bless Our Troops!!)
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To: All
Some minor editing at "Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung" adds these items:

excerpt....

Egyptian air traffic control authorities named a technical defect as the probable cause of the accident.

"The cause is still a technical one so far," Secretary for Civilian Air Traffic, Ahmed Schafik, said on state television. "There was a malfunction which made it difficult for the crew to save the airplane". French traffic undersecretary Dominique Bussereau said flight FSH604 had problems at take off in Scharm al Scheich on Saturday. After that, the pilot had tried to return to the airport. The Egyptian authorities explained an emergency call hadn't been sent. Egyptian Secretary of State Ahmed Maher said the accident isn't deemed as being connected with a terrorist attack.

"FAZ"....Boeing mit Touristen abgestürzt - 148 Tote

Translated by longjack

142 posted on 01/03/2004 9:06:39 AM PST by longjack
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To: thesummerwind
It was probably the same as that out-of-control food cart that rolled down the ailse to the back of Flight 587 and destroyed the tailfin!

I thought 'tailfins' went out in the late fifties/early sixties - did they SOMEHOW make a comeback for *style* reasons in the field of aeronautics?

(Methinks this poor person is referring to a 'vertical stabilizer'. NTSB report)

143 posted on 01/03/2004 9:07:52 AM PST by _Jim ( <--- Ann Coulter speaks on gutless Liberals (RealAudio files))
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Comment #144 Removed by Moderator

To: _Jim
Get over it - don't you remember the vertical stabilizer that was fished out of the lake?

It's pretty apparent it was a 'materials failure' (fatigue, design failure, etc) on that Airbus.


Yes, and I also remember that both engines dropped off the wings soon after the vertical stabilizer supposedly broke off first.

I suppose this was all coincidence, right? Or were the reports false?

Sorry, I've never bought the "jet wash" excuse for why the pilot was apparently doing what he is trained never to do, which is slam the rudder pedals left-right-left-right until the stabilizer breaks.

And *I* might be a neophyte, but I did converse with an aeronautical engineer soon after, he said that while it is indeed possible that the composite stabilizer could fail, it was a highly suspect crash, especially coming so soon after 9-11. Not that it will mean anything to you of course. In case you missed it, I will say it again - this is all my own opinion.
145 posted on 01/03/2004 9:15:47 AM PST by asb3pe
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To: asb3pe
Anybody been on the big terror threat thread in the last few days?

A new graphic was posted (at least 24 hours before this crash) from a Jihadi website with a bloody hand rising out of Saudi Arabia with a map of the RED SEA area.

I'll find the link. It's too coincidental for me.

Just like the calendar that came out before 911 with the plane going down in NYC.

One Moroccan tourist? Wonder what was in his luggage?
146 posted on 01/03/2004 9:19:57 AM PST by LikeLight ( ___________________________________ it's a line)
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To: _Jim
Who's purported??
I'm no purporter!
Did your parents use scientific disipline on you as a child?
I am a Monday-Morning Arm-Chair Quarterback, get it right!
147 posted on 01/03/2004 9:21:46 AM PST by TexasCajun
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Comment #148 Removed by Moderator

To: asb3pe
I think both points of view on this thread are correct:

A)I think the 737 does have some design problems. Those are documented. Think of all the people (including ourselves) who make mistakes in our daily life. i.e. forget to lock the car door, forget to close the windows before a storm, forget to file a report at work, etc.

Now, think about all the guys who build, maintain and fly planes. Logical to think those guys are going to screw-up at times also, and fantastic accidents occur because of it. Maybe the mechanic just had a bitter fight with his wife before returning to his shift, etc.

B)Given that this was an Egyptian town, frequented by European tourists, Blair was or would be in the area, and no distress calls, and all the AQ "chatter" we hear about, you have to think terrorism is possibility #1 here. Stupid not to think otherwise.
149 posted on 01/03/2004 9:23:07 AM PST by SteveAustin
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To: All
Can anyone come up with graphics of what a wheel well looks like?? I'm kinda curious if you can fit a small suitcase in there, in addition to a body.
150 posted on 01/03/2004 9:25:46 AM PST by Sacajaweau (God Bless Our Troops!!)
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To: seamole
Things seem to be coming out slowly.

It's hard to imagine how the authorities know the plane had problems even though it didn't send out an SOS. Maybe the pilots were talking with ATC the entire time while trying to get it back in, then lost it suddenly.

It also seems that the information about the plane turning back came out 4 or 5 hours after the reports that the plane had crashed, which was 3 or 4 hours after the crash itself. The plane crashed at 10:45 PM EST last night by my calcualtions.

I have no idea if this time line is usual, so I'll have to defer to those people who know what they're talking about.

OTOH, all the material coming out is consistent with a mechanical failure such as the rudder issues these planes are known to have.

Egypt certainly doesn't want to scare away tourists, so they will be very careful with issuing statements, I'm sure.

longjack

151 posted on 01/03/2004 9:27:31 AM PST by longjack
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To: longjack
There is a story out that says this:

"Egypt's Civil Aviation Ministry initially ruled out terrorism, calling the crash an "accident" apparently caused by a mechanical problem. Egypt's civil aviation minister says there was some sort of malfunction and there was little the crew could do to save to plane"

How in a few hours does this Minister know all this? And if he does, why doesn't he elaborate on the specifics of the problem if it was only mechanical?

In the US, would we accept it if Rumsfeld got on the air a few hours after a crash like this and said "oh, it was all mechanical, we just know this" and nothing more was said?

This thing does smell bad.

152 posted on 01/03/2004 9:39:49 AM PST by SteveAustin
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To: SteveAustin
Pretty much the instand the plane hit the water "officials" were saying it was "defintely not terrorism."

These third-world propaganda guys flush their credibility down the toilet pretty fast.
153 posted on 01/03/2004 9:50:39 AM PST by eno_ (Freedom Lite - it's almost worth defending)
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To: asb3pe
Typically, when a plane explodes for some reason, the pilots don't get a chance to call home and say goodbye. :) Let's see if they ever find an intact body, or if they continue to simply find arms and legs.

This incident strikes me as being quite similar to flight 587, ---yep.
154 posted on 01/03/2004 9:50:49 AM PST by thesummerwind (Images of broken light which dance before me like a million eyes)
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To: Diogenesis
Diogenesis, that's the first time I had seen that calender. It is absolutely chilling. Just searched through the archives, but couldn't find anything more about it. Is there another thread that gives the full story? Thanks.
155 posted on 01/03/2004 9:50:50 AM PST by Schuck
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To: longjack
I found this interesting tidbit near the botom of a "Spiegel" article. Evidently they had a reader call in who had flown on that very aircraft in November:

Excerpt....

According to information from a "SPIEGEL ONLINE" reader who flew with the plane in November, the Boeing didn't seem very well cared for, though. The seat backs were wobbly, everything crackled and looked almost shabby.

.....

Apparently, the plane had been taken over from an airline company in a Spanish speaking area, because in many spots there had still been messages that could be read in Spanish. However, the crew made a competent impression, and take offs and landings ran optimally, as well.

"Spiegel Online"...."Die Verwandten stehen unter Schock"

Translated by longjack

156 posted on 01/03/2004 9:51:02 AM PST by longjack
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To: seamole
# 156 was supposed to go to you.

longjack

157 posted on 01/03/2004 9:54:17 AM PST by longjack
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To: _Jim; asb3pe; onyx
Welcome to your world as envisioned, designed and built by Mr. Rogers!

--- a much better world than yours, I can say for sure, as he lived three doors away from me for over a decade!

You stepped in it again, Arlen.

158 posted on 01/03/2004 9:57:22 AM PST by thesummerwind (Images of broken light which dance before me like a million eyes)
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To: LikeLight
"A new graphic was posted (at least 24 hours before this crash) from a Jihadi website with a bloody hand rising out of Saudi Arabia with a map of the RED SEA area."

It's at post 4703

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1013726/posts?q=1&&page=4703
159 posted on 01/03/2004 9:58:01 AM PST by freeperfromnj
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To: thesummerwind
Do you have conclusions on Flight 800, by the way?

I don't have a strong opinion on it. I suspect it was either as the NTSB says it was, or it was shot down by terrorists. I am somewhat doubtful that it was shot down by the Navy and covered up afterwards. That would involve deception on the part of hundreds of people in different parts of the government at multiple levels. I don't think such a deception could last very long. Someone's conscience would get the best of them.

160 posted on 01/03/2004 9:58:58 AM PST by Toskrin (No world leader has been caught in a hole that size since Bill Clinton.)
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